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[165bows]

Both Val and Sullinger are the same age and play the same minutes. I like Val more because he is a big center without the injuries(though his defense pus me off), but to say Sullinger sucks is just a dumb statement. Val put up 11.3/8.8 his soph season and Sullinger put up 13.3/8.1. I would rather take my chance on Sullinger being healthy then give up the Brooklyn pick.

No, its not a dumb statement.

Jared Sullinger is not a good basketball player, period. I realize Boston fan's want him to be good, as a prized trade asset, but he just isn't. It doesn't matter where he was drafted, or how highly touted he was as a college basketball player. As an NBA player, he just sucks.

To compare him to Jonas is dishonest. Jonas is actually a decent player with upside. Sullinger is out of shape, undersized, and has a questionable injury history. If you really want to go into comparing numbers, you have to look at more than raw numbers, especially if you are going to call people's statements dumb.



Jonas destroys Sullinger across the board. Absurdly more efficient, gets to the line more, better offensive and defensive rebounder, blocks more shots, etc. etc. The only positives about Sullinger is he turns the ball over slightly less, and facilitates a bit more. Across 100 possessions, he needs more than 6 additional shots to outscore Jonas. That is absolutely ridiculous. Why is he taking 3 3pters per game at 28% efficiency. Is he stupid?

Jared Sullinger is this generations Big Baby Davis, with far more injury concerns. He has no value and is on his way to being a vet minimum player. No competent team is going to trade anything of value for him.

Not saying Sully is better than Val but the most important stats in there IMO are BPM and VORP. Saying he is a future minimum guy is a little harsh and uninformed.

Agreed. You could do the same comparison with Sully and ZBo through the same age and they are very similar. Rebounding rates are almost identical, Sully trails a bit scoring inside the arc, but is a better facilitator/playmaker (where he is actually very good for a big).

Thing is Sully needs that three point shot to pay off to be a high end guy. He's had multiple month long stretches where he's hit it at ~40%, he just needs to avoid the droughts and find some consistency.

Edit - And besides, everyone knows Sully turns it on when it counts while Val wilts in Paul Pierce's shadow.

Spoiler:

obviously joking...
but posting the numbers to make clear the vet min idea is off-base.

ETA - per 36 minutes, 2015 playoffs

Code: Select all

                                                                                           
              Player  Season G  MP  FGA  FG% 3PA  3P%  2PA  2P% FTA  FT% ORB DRB  TRB  PTS
     Jared Sullinger 2014-15 4  80 17.1 .553 4.1 .333 13.1 .621 3.2 .571 4.1 8.6 12.6 22.1
   Jonas Valanciunas 2014-15 4 106 12.9 .500 0.0      12.9 .500 2.7 .875 3.1 9.5 12.6 15.3



[Golabki]

Good at boxing out and rebounding. Good mid range game.

good rebounder, scorer, foot work, nice mid range and post up game, better than average D, plays hard. if you don't realize the guy can play you haven't been watching.

Sullinger
ORB% - 10.1 (41st in the league)
DRB% - 20.9 (47th in the league)
TFB% - 15.4 (47th in the league)

Ortg - 106 (~140th in the league)

Of players who played more than 1000 minutes.

I have been watching. Stats confirm the eye test. Not a good rebounder, abysmal scorer.

Just not a good player.

The best all-in stat on the list that you sent is BPM, which says Sully is a good starter and Vala is an adaquate starter/ good backup.

The best all-in stat that's publically available is RPM, which gives roughly the same answer (Sully +1.7, Vala -0.7).

That's not to say, Sully is a nessarily better, but your just factually wrong about what the stats say.

I would also point out that Vala's own coach seemed to agree with this and he considered Johnson/Petterson the best C/PF combo on the roster.

Sully, does look lazy on the defense end at times... particularly 2014 when the Celtics were bad, but he been pretty good in big games (see the Cavs serries where he looked only celtic big who could do anything on D).

[Fattz]

Houston would do the cut out deal for Jonas to get big man depth. Howard would be much better if he could let loose and not worry about fouls.
PLUS - Howard's free throw percentage issue is a problem in the 4th and occasionally in other quarters (GS actually went hack-a-howard in the first half a couple of times. Val would eliminate that problem for the most part. Not enough of a downgrade to waste fouls on Howard and Val can finish if needed.

Right now - Houston needs a backup center. Capela is looking like he will develop into a nice center, maybe even an all star someday - but Houston needs a veteran.

now:
pg - Lawson, Beverly
sg - Harden, McDaniels, JTerry
sf - Ariza, Brewer, Dekker
pf - Motie, TJones, Harrell
c - Howard, Capela

With Val:
pg - Lawson, Beverly
sg - Harden, McDaniels, JTerry
sf - Ariza, Brewer, Dekker
pf - Motie, Harrell
c - Howard, JVal

Rox are super solid and have solid backups at the pg, sg and sf spots. Howard locks down the starting center position. Motie played well at pf before he got hurt last year - and team is counting on him.
Trade pieces: TJones and Capela showed what they could do in the playoffs - quality big men that are still developing and could be really good.

By doing the deal, center depth and end game issues are resolved. Then, the team has only one position that is not set in stone two deep - which would be power forward. Worst case, Motie is a great backup - best case he is that stretch 4 that will space the offense.
Still, one weak spot is easier to hide and or fix when you are two deep across the board.

As a Rocket fan, when can we get this done. Do we need a pick to close the deal.

[Dukenukem23]

Houston would do the cut out deal for Jonas to get big man depth. Howard would be much better if he could let loose and not worry about fouls.
PLUS - Howard's free throw percentage issue is a problem in the 4th and occasionally in other quarters (GS actually went hack-a-howard in the first half a couple of times. Val would eliminate that problem for the most part. Not enough of a downgrade to waste fouls on Howard and Val can finish if needed.

Right now - Houston needs a backup center. Capela is looking like he will develop into a nice center, maybe even an all star someday - but Houston needs a veteran.

now:
pg - Lawson, Beverly
sg - Harden, McDaniels, JTerry
sf - Ariza, Brewer, Dekker
pf - Motie, TJones, Harrell
c - Howard, Capela

With Val:
pg - Lawson, Beverly
sg - Harden, McDaniels, JTerry
sf - Ariza, Brewer, Dekker
pf - Motie, Harrell
c - Howard, JVal

Rox are super solid and have solid backups at the pg, sg and sf spots. Howard locks down the starting center position. Motie played well at pf before he got hurt last year - and team is counting on him.
Trade pieces: TJones and Capela showed what they could do in the playoffs - quality big men that are still developing and could be really good.

By doing the deal, center depth and end game issues are resolved. Then, the team has only one position that is not set in stone two deep - which would be power forward. Worst case, Motie is a great backup - best case he is that stretch 4 that will space the offense.
Still, one weak spot is easier to hide and or fix when you are two deep across the board.

As a Rocket fan, when can we get this done. Do we need a pick to close the deal.

Val for jones + Capela + choice of dekker or pick

Don't love trading a superior player for lesser guys but JV needs a different coach asap. He's just going to rot in Toronto, I'd do the deal with decker or a good draft pick.

[Fattz]

:P

Houston would do the cut out deal for Jonas to get big man depth. Howard would be much better if he could let loose and not worry about fouls.
PLUS - Howard's free throw percentage issue is a problem in the 4th and occasionally in other quarters (GS actually went hack-a-howard in the first half a couple of times. Val would eliminate that problem for the most part. Not enough of a downgrade to waste fouls on Howard and Val can finish if needed.

Right now - Houston needs a backup center. Capela is looking like he will develop into a nice center, maybe even an all star someday - but Houston needs a veteran.

now:
pg - Lawson, Beverly
sg - Harden, McDaniels, JTerry
sf - Ariza, Brewer, Dekker
pf - Motie, TJones, Harrell
c - Howard, Capela

With Val:
pg - Lawson, Beverly
sg - Harden, McDaniels, JTerry
sf - Ariza, Brewer, Dekker
pf - Motie, Harrell
c - Howard, JVal

Rox are super solid and have solid backups at the pg, sg and sf spots. Howard locks down the starting center position. Motie played well at pf before he got hurt last year - and team is counting on him.
Trade pieces: TJones and Capela showed what they could do in the playoffs - quality big men that are still developing and could be really good.

By doing the deal, center depth and end game issues are resolved. Then, the team has only one position that is not set in stone two deep - which would be power forward. Worst case, Motie is a great backup - best case he is that stretch 4 that will space the offense.
Still, one weak spot is easier to hide and or fix when you are two deep across the board.

As a Rocket fan, when can we get this done. Do we need a pick to close the deal.

Val for jones + Capela + choice of dekker or pick

Don't love trading a superior player for lesser guys but JV needs a different coach asap. He's just going to rot in Toronto, I'd do the deal with decker or a good draft pick.

His is contract is up this year... We will just wait. He was going to be the insurance if Howard's contract is to high and / or walk at season's end. You are right it is his coaching not him holding him back. In Houston we have coaching bigs covered. Would really like to see him and Dmo play together.

Dmo $2M & Howard $23M = $25M (this season).
Dmo contract is up, too. Dmo will get paid and so will JVal.
DMo $12.5M & JVal $12.5M = $25M ( per over 4 years)
still room DMtheGM to chase his rabbits ( KD next off season)

[Trader_Joe]

:P

As a Rocket fan, when can we get this done. Do we need a pick to close the deal.

Val for jones + Capela + choice of dekker or pick

Don't love trading a superior player for lesser guys but JV needs a different coach asap. He's just going to rot in Toronto, I'd do the deal with decker or a good draft pick.

His is contract is up this year... We will just wait. He was going to be the insurance if Howard's contract is to high and / or walk at season's end. You are right it is his coaching not him holding him back. In Houston we have coaching bigs covered. Would really like to see him and Dmo play together.

Dmo $2M & Howard $23M = $25M (this season).
Dmo contract is up, too. Dmo will get paid and so will JVal.
DMo $12.5M & JVal $12.5M = $25M ( per over 4 years)
still room DMtheGM to chase his rabbits ( KD next off season)

Wait for a sign and trade?
He's restricted and I'm sure TO would match anything.

[Dukenukem23]

:P

As a Rocket fan, when can we get this done. Do we need a pick to close the deal.

Val for jones + Capela + choice of dekker or pick

Don't love trading a superior player for lesser guys but JV needs a different coach asap. He's just going to rot in Toronto, I'd do the deal with decker or a good draft pick.

His is contract is up this year... We will just wait. He was going to be the insurance if Howard's contract is to high and / or walk at season's end. You are right it is his coaching not him holding him back. In Houston we have coaching bigs covered. Would really like to see him and Dmo play together.

Dmo $2M & Howard $23M = $25M (this season).
Dmo contract is up, too. Dmo will get paid and so will JVal.
DMo $12.5M & JVal $12.5M = $25M ( per over 4 years)
still room DMtheGM to chase his rabbits ( KD next off season)

Valanciunas is a RFA, do you know how that works? You won't be getting him any other way other than trade. Raps will match any offer and they could still look to deal him afterwards, especially at your 12.5 mill prediction.