Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

[Flying Colors]

huh, i thought Thompson was already signed to some obscene money. Well this makes sense, TT is going end up with a 7 million a year contract and he is going to regret saying no to the Cavs initial offer

[NavLDO]

Except Lyles can't stretch the floor that well yet. He is more of a midrange type guy. I thought for sure they would try and draft a 4 who can hit the 3.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nc49oqv

PHX also adds in: 2016 1st

So, we relieve them of Burke, who they were looking to trade, and Burks, who IMO, was overpaid and is coming off an injury. This helps prepare them for competing next season (Kieff may incur a suspension, and if so, better this season for Utah) and gives them a nice young prospect in Warren. We also 'sweeten' the pot by adding in our 2016 (with Top 10 protection), which may be a late lotto or late teens, more likely.

While we are trying to get to the Playoffs this season, we trade away some 'potential'--you have to spend in order to receive.

Knight / Price / Burke
Burks / Goodwin / Booker
Tucker / Weems / C. Johnson
Favors / Teletovic / Leuer
Chandler / Len

That gives us a solid starting 5, with 'Big 3' potential (Knight, Favors, Len), and decent depth, if Burke can ever figure it out--you never know what a change of scenery will do for him -- Burke/Goodwin/Weems/Teletovic/Len -- that's fantastic depth.

Utah Depth:

Bledsoe / (Exum) / Cotton / Neto
Hood / Millsap
Hayward / Warren / Ingles
KiefMo / Booker / Jerrett / Cooley
Gobert / Cooley (and Kieff when rolling 'small ball')

Thats a horrible trade. Favors is not that much better than Kieff. My goodness Kieff's actual on court play is so undervalued by many. Then you give away an even better player in Bledsoe? And huge potential in TJ? That trade would set the Suns back signficantly. Yikes.

Good, I thought so as well. I originally had us taking Hayward, vice Burks, but that showed Utah with -9 games, and us +4 on the trade machine, so I swapped them to give us closer 'value' according to the trade machine--just goes to prove that the trade machine value is way off. When I originally had:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pq6kcnh

I thought that would've been more fair to the Suns, IMO.

Knight / Price / Cotton
Tucker / Goodwin / Booker
Hayward / Weems
Favors / Teletovic / Leuer
Chandler / Len

Now that would be a playoff team, for sure. But even so, I'm not a huge Hayward fan--I'd rather have Warren and his youth/potential over Hayward, personally. I do think Favors is a sizable upgrade from Kieff, though, so I don't agree with your assertion that Favors is not that big of an upgrade from Kieff. Rebounding, Defense, age, upside, and just flat out 'size' places him well over Kieff, IMO. Then there's the whole character issues, which isn't tangible and can't be overstated.

Favors is a top 10 PF in this league--Kieff just...isn't...

But, if I had my druthers and thought we could pull it off, I'd love to get something like this done:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=p2t5p74

Knight / Price
Burks / Goodwin / Booker
Warren / Weems / Hood
Favors / Teletovic / Leuer
Chandler / Len

Now, THERE'S a contender, assuming Knight reverts back to 'Milwaukee-Bucks-Knight' as opposed to 'first-10-games-Suns'-Knight'. Too bad we didn't select Hood last year, vice our back-up PG...oh wait, he was packaged/traded away already...

With that line-up, we'd have a lot of flexibility between the 1, 2, and 3 positions. Essentially, Burks is a SG with PG abilities, so he'd fit in well in PHX. We'd lose the defensive impact we enjoy from Bledsoe, but similar driving to the basket ability, and improved BBIQ will help make up for that.

So, we'd have Knight, Price, Burks, and Goodwin able to play the point; Knight, Burks, Goodwin, Booker, Weems, and Hood able to play the 2; and Warren, Booker, Weems, Hood and in a pinch, Teletovic and Leuer, able to play the 3.

OK, dream over...

[tgtm_24]

It's a no from me. Believe in Bledsoe

[SideSwipe]

In a world where we have chandler starting, we need frontcourt scoring. Chandler cannot create his own shot. If there are options to send Chandler a win now team to further upgrade, then I would look at Favors maybe, otherwise, I don't think he is a fit.

Also, don't recall it being talked about specifically, but on the flipside Chandler might be a draw for Melo if we wanted to play it that way. They played together for several years in NYK. Len (gulp), Warren (gulp), Kieff, Tucker, PHX #1?? It would hurt, but it would give us a killer at scoring that we need.

[NavLDO]

In a world where we have chandler starting, we need frontcourt scoring. Chandler cannot create his own shot. If there are options to send Chandler a win now team to further upgrade, then I would look at Favors maybe, otherwise, I don't think he is a fit.

Also, don't recall it being talked about specifically, but on the flipside Chandler might be a draw for Melo if we wanted to play it that way. They played together for several years in NYK. Len (gulp), Warren (gulp), Kieff, Tucker, PHX #1?? It would hurt, but it would give us a killer at scoring that we need.

I don't see why Favors is considered so deficient offensively as compared to Kieff. And if Len truly is expanding his game out to 16-20ft, Favors would fit in nicely...especially with Warren. Would it change your mind if the line-up was:

8 Player Rotation
1st Team--Knight / Burks / Warren / Favors / Len

2nd Team--Knight / Weems / Warren / Teletovic / Chandler

10 Player rotation:
1st Team--Knight / Burks / Warren / Favors / Len

2nd Team--Goodwin / Weems / Hood / Teletovic / Chandler

[TeamTragic]

I bashed the hell out of Tucker since he got to the team. I can't stand his game and his low IQ. But I never called him a "cancer to the lockerroom". I think you confused me with someone else. I think he isn't very smart and the team needs to move on from him. He decision making both on and off the court are not ones you want around younger players. Calling someone a cancer in the lockerroom implies that he creates a bad evironment in the lockerroom. I dont think he is a bad locker room guy, I just think he is a couple cans short of a six pack. He definitely isnt a "leader" this team needs. I welcome you to find a quote from me calling him a "cancer." Anyway the point is moot.

The media didnt have to "ramp" up anything, Marcus is doing a fine job all by himself. Also, I am happy for you that you don't have a problem with markieff but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to fall in line with your thinking.

What exactly should we call him? He started the last off-season with his super DUI, then was missing team buses and getting stupid technicals in critical games. Then after the season was over he is drinking by the pool and destroying nachos. How is this guy a positive influence?

Now that was an odd response. He clearly doesn't like PJ either.

I think that maybe you just don't like my responses. Let's not pretend that everyone on this board isn't an arm chair analyst. Does your opinion have more weight because you're a mod?

No need to get offended by my opinion and you can defend Dragic all you want. Maybe go follow him on the Heat board?

[Cutter]

No to trading for Favors. He's like a clogged artery in that he has limited shooting range and his defender sags off clogging the lane. This limits Chandler's pick and roll ability, plus limits the ability of Bledsoe, Knight and Warren to slash to the rim. If Favors is all that great, why would Utah trade him? now, if we had a stretch 5 (like Channing Frye) who would clear the lane and let Favors operate near the rim, then you might be on to something good. But with Len and Chandler as our centers, I don't see any way McD would consider Favors.

[bwgood77]

What exactly should we call him? He started the last off-season with his super DUI, then was missing team buses and getting stupid technicals in critical games. Then after the season was over he is drinking by the pool and destroying nachos. How is this guy a positive influence?

Now that was an odd response. He clearly doesn't like PJ either.

I think that maybe you just don't like my responses. Let's not pretend that everyone on this board isn't an arm chair analyst. Does your opinion have more weight because you're a mod?

No need to get offended by my opinion and you can defend Dragic all you want. Maybe go follow him on the Heat board?

My opinion doesn't mean more than anyone's, but you are not making any sense. First of all, why are you bringing up Dragic? What does that have to do with Tucker? Secondly, you respond to SunsDeuce in a combative way when he was just correcting someone who quoted him. Get the hell off your high horse. I don't know if you are drunk, a troll, or what, but cut this crap out.

You're obviously just trying to bait people into arguments and we have enough of that as it is. We don't need constant especially if it isn't at least a reasonable discussion.

[Jdiddy701]

Bledsoe
Knight
Melo
Keef
Chandler

That will actually be a very good team. I can dream. Salaries don't match


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[saintEscaton]

Bledsoe
Knight
Melo
Keef
Chandler

That will actually be a very good team. I can dream. Salaries don't match


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So we bring in the most notorious carte blanche black hole/ISO king to pair up with Kieff to give us the most stagnant ball stopping frontcourt in the league? Sounds wonderful

[Cutter]

Bledsoe
Knight
Melo
Keef
Chandler

That will actually be a very good team. I can dream. Salaries don't match


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I bet in this scenario Melo would play the 4 at least 50% of the time and stretch the floor from that position. It will never happen, but I could see this having potential if Melo promised to pass the ball and have good ball movement. But like I said, this isn't happening so yeah......

[AtheJ415]

Melo's not worth trading for. He's not worth his salary to begin with, but due to the cap situation we'd have to match salaries, and in that since we don't really have any bad contracts, we'd have to give up some really good players for his overpaid deal. He's also not exactly young anymore, and is and has always been a one way player.

There's a lot of guys I would rather trade for than Melo. Aside from the big name, I just don't get it. He's a dynamic offensive player but he's just not worth his deal and is a liability defensively. I'd rather us give guys that can help the Knicks now for picks or a young player (Kristaps, for instance, if they get impatient).

[Jdiddy701]

I've always wanted Carmelo with our current roster. Now is the best time with Chandler to compete now. Melo is clutch. Who's the Suns go to guy in crunch time? I love me some Keef don't get me wrong, but gotta look at how many games last year we lost by under 5 pts. Worth the risk I think. Suns don't have the balls to do it.. I mean money.


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[bwgood77]

NY isn't trading Melo. I'm very glad that's the case.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Very few guys who aren't obvious championship no.1's that end up being that. Maybe 5-10 guys at any point in the league.

I wouldn't put Carmelo in that category.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

huh, i thought Thompson was already signed to some obscene money. Well this makes sense, TT is going end up with a 7 million a year contract and he is going to regret saying no to the Cavs initial offer

He sure is willing to gamble with his clients' careers. TT turned down big money from the Cavs with TT, and while it appeared to have paid off, things are starting to get a bit murky, aren't they? Bled's contract was okay, but he probably could have done better (both in terms of money and fan perception) by signing an offer sheet elsewhere and letting the Suns match. But Kevin Seraphin has really whiffed. He had a solid offer for an extension from the Wizards IIRC, turned it down, and now has him taking less money on a one year deal. Not exactly building a great track record.

[NavLDO]

No to trading for Favors. He's like a clogged artery in that he has limited shooting range and his defender sags off clogging the lane. This limits Chandler's pick and roll ability, plus limits the ability of Bledsoe, Knight and Warren to slash to the rim. If Favors is all that great, why would Utah trade him? now, if we had a stretch 5 (like Channing Frye) who would clear the lane and let Favors operate near the rim, then you might be on to something good. But with Len and Chandler as our centers, I don't see any way McD would consider Favors.

But as has been mentioned, Len has expanded his offensive capability to the outside. Additionally, there are ways to mitigate that if it becomes a problem, but looking at Gobert's shot chart compared to Len's, and you can clearly see that Len stretches out beyond the lane. I chose Gobert for obvious reasons, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of issues between the Gobert/Favors tandem, so why would there be issues with Len/Favors frontcourt?

Gobert Shot Chart
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/player/1516/rudy-gobert/shotchart/

Alex Len Shot Chart
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/player/1586/alex-len/shotchart/

And as I mentioned, there are ways to mitigate the issue--like lining Gobert up at the 5, so a Line-up looking like this for some stretches in the game, if necessary:

Knight / Weems / Warren / Teletovic / Favors

And considering 40% of Favors' shots are not below the rim, I really don't see this as being as big of an issue as you seem to think.

http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/player/948/derrick-favors/shotchart/

[bwgood77]

I seriously doubt Utah is trading Favors.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Len took over 100 shots outside of 10 feet last season, made 30% of them.

I think people are wanting Len, Warren, Goodwin, Bledsoe to become good outside shooters, but I'm not sure on what basis they think it's going to suddenly change.

[Frank Lee]

practice practice practice