Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

[Moochthemonkey]

Don't be surprised Suns bring back Channing Frye. Just sayin


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[RaisingArizona]

We've known about the lack of communication for weeks now. Gambo is not saying anything new here. He's inferring he wants out but doesn't cite proof that he asked for a trade.

[lilfishi22]

Yeah don't see the point when we got Telly for less

[letsgosuns]

I do not doubt Gambo's sources on Markieff. He might not be privy to the moves the Suns are making like he used to be involving signings, but he definitely knows about things like this. I expect a trade to happen.

[Flying Colors]

@InsiderSuns: Sources say following a meeting with Markieff Morris, the Suns have quietly looked to trade him. Marcus revealed last week Keef will be gone

I dunno if i trust InsiderSuns for anything, not that i'm saying kieff isn't asking for a trade or anything, but that insidersuns always seem to just parrot information that has been out there.

[Kerrsed]

Cant believe people are still sticking up for him and not believing what has been said for a while now.

As for Frye, Im not a fan of his, but him and Chandler together would really benefit each other majorly. He would also help us with our search for better 3 point shooting percentages. In that circumstance, Frye shot close to 40% last season, while Morris regressed back down to around 30%.

I would prefer to trade Morris for a younger more talented player than Frye, but if it came down to it, i'd probably do it anyways.

[franksredhot]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UceGF3M56bE[/youtube]

[drewsprocket]

People overreact. It's August folks and he's posturing. Doesn't mean he has to be traded. He won't be refusing to come to camp when the time comes. You can't break your contract and expect another one. Suns better not dump him for nothing. If nothing comes down the pipe in a worthy offer, send Chandler, Bled, and Knight down to his door to get his ass back.
I could see teams low balling right now. But until training camps start, teams wont be making serious offers for his talent.

[SunsFanSSOL]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Keefmorris/status/629447605731360769[/tweet]

[Moochthemonkey]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Keefmorris/status/629447605731360769[/tweet]

sheeiiiitttt...here comes the semi-cryptic twitter war lol

[letsgosuns]

There are some seriously loyal Markieff supporters on here and I do not understand why. How many more things does this guy have to do to make you want him off the team? He destroyed the fan base. He is accused of felony aggravated assault. Now it comes out that he wants nothing to do with the Suns and has not spoken to the Suns staff or players since the trade of his brother. Supposedly he will ask for a trade when he meets with the Suns and if they do not accommodate him he will make it known how much he wants off the team. That is not my opinion. Those are Gambo's words from his show today. Let's not forget that all this drama is surrounding a player that averages 15 points and 6 rebounds a game with a low IQ. He is a bench player at best. This guy is not worth the trouble. Trade him for the best offer you get and move on. When he is gone, no one will even remember him. They will just remember a player that caused more harm than good.

[saintEscaton]

Markieff, Archie + 1st rounder to SacTown for Rudy.

PHX
C - Chandler, Len
PF - Rudy, Teletovic
SF - Tucker, Warren
SG - Knight, Weems, Booker
PG - Bledsoe, Price

SAC
C - Cousins, Koufos
PF - Markieff, WCS
SF - Casspi, Butler
SG - McLemore, Bellinelli, Archie
PG - Rondo, Collison

Oh god please no. This has all the makings of being a dumpster firesale deal. I'd literally take back anybody except Gay.Although hes's not on that terrible albatross of a contract he still got extended for 3 years and is owed on average $13.3 mill annualy so he would count as deadweight against our future financial flexibility. He might have looked to have turned the corner in terms of effecienc last year but that was primarily because of Karl's breakneck offensive system. Once he's out of it he will revert back into being a habitual chucker/inconsequential garbage time statstuffer and a bad model for our youth on the court. He's a turnstile on defensive and a downgrade from Kieff on the other end and Kings were simply awful on the other end the 9 games they tried their small ball lineup with Gay at the 4. (He rebounds on par for a SF but would be totally manhandled on the boards if he's going up against bigs)

[SunsFanSSOL]

Markieff, Archie + 1st rounder to SacTown for Rudy.

PHX
C - Chandler, Len
PF - Rudy, Teletovic
SF - Tucker, Warren
SG - Knight, Weems, Booker
PG - Bledsoe, Price

SAC
C - Cousins, Koufos
PF - Markieff, WCS
SF - Casspi, Butler
SG - McLemore, Bellinelli, Archie
PG - Rondo, Collison

Oh god please no. This has all the makings of being a dumpster firesale deal. I'd literally take back anybody except Gay.Although hes's not on that terrible albatross of a contract he still got extended for 3 years and is owed on average $13.3 mill annualy so he would count as deadweight against our future financial flexibility. He might have looked to have turned the corner in terms of effecienc last year but that was primarily because of Karl's breakneck offensive system. Once he's out of it he will revert back into being a habitual chucker/inconsequential garbage time statstuffer and a bad model for our youth on the court. He's a turnstile on defensive and a downgrade from Kieff on the other end and Kings were simply awful on the other end the 9 games they tried their small ball lineup with Gay at the 4. (He rebounds on par for a SF but would be totally manhandled on the boards if he's going up against bigs)

He averaged 20 PPG on 48% in 13-14 under Malone who by no means is a good offensive coach, so I can't see how you can consider him a product of Karl.

[saintEscaton]

Markieff, Archie + 1st rounder to SacTown for Rudy.

PHX
C - Chandler, Len
PF - Rudy, Teletovic
SF - Tucker, Warren
SG - Knight, Weems, Booker
PG - Bledsoe, Price

SAC
C - Cousins, Koufos
PF - Markieff, WCS
SF - Casspi, Butler
SG - McLemore, Bellinelli, Archie
PG - Rondo, Collison

Oh god please no. This has all the makings of being a dumpster firesale deal. I'd literally take back anybody except Gay.Although hes's not on that terrible albatross of a contract he still got extended for 3 years and is owed on average $13.3 mill annualy so he would count as deadweight against our future financial flexibility. He might have looked to have turned the corner in terms of effecienc last year but that was primarily because of Karl's breakneck offensive system. Once he's out of it he will revert back into being a habitual chucker/inconsequential garbage time statstuffer and a bad model for our youth on the court. He's a turnstile on defensive and a downgrade from Kieff on the other end and Kings were simply awful on the other end the 9 games they tried their small ball lineup with Gay at the 4. (He rebounds on par for a SF but would be totally manhandled on the boards if he's going up against bigs)

He averaged 20 PPG on 48% in 13-14 under Malone who by no means is a good offensive coach, so I can't see how you can consider him a product of Karl.

This breaks it down. http://hoopshabit.com/2015/03/25/rudy-gay-flourishing-george-karl/

FG% doesn't tell the whole story especially when it comes to shot selection. Gotta look at EffectiveFG% and True Shooting% while cross referencing per minute Player Effeciency Rating that adjusts for pace and calibrated against the league average. Karl used him as an interchangeable forward who played defensively as a 4 in order to exploit offensively mismatched bigs and he always needed a wing alongside him to space the floor and pull out PFs to the perimeter to give him open driving lanes and room to work his stop on a dime pull up midrange J after isolating at the top of the key. Under Karl's system he shot an uncharacteristic 50% from 10 feet out as well as on catch and shoot 3PT attempts. But the Kings made a sacrificial tradeoff by becoming the worst defensive team in the league after the All-Star break in order to increase their pace and points per 100 possesions.

[sunsbum]

Why do we need frye when we have the king slayer? I'm glad we can all agree now (willingly or not) that Keef needs to be moved. Get this "clown" out of here.

[saintEscaton]

@InsiderSuns: Sources say following a meeting with Markieff Morris, the Suns have quietly looked to trade him. Marcus revealed last week Keef will be gone

I dunno if i trust InsiderSuns for anything, not that i'm saying kieff isn't asking for a trade or anything, but that insidersuns always seem to just parrot information that has been out there.

I'm pretty sure that InsiderSuns is just the collective hivemind of our board. Could be any one of the posters.

[Flying Colors]

@InsiderSuns: Sources say following a meeting with Markieff Morris, the Suns have quietly looked to trade him. Marcus revealed last week Keef will be gone

I dunno if i trust InsiderSuns for anything, not that i'm saying kieff isn't asking for a trade or anything, but that insidersuns always seem to just parrot information that has been out there.

I'm pretty sure that InsiderSuns is just the collective hivemind of our board. Could be any one of the posters.

Honestly you might not be wrong, i don't have problem with that account in theory, i just wouldn't use their tweets as a way to validate rumours.

[bwgood77]

Markieff is wildly inconsistent and will never be a starter on a good team. He's underachieved since college.

With that said, does this front office ever get an ounce of blame for repeatedly watching players' trade values bottom out before they actually trade them?

They got a ton of blame with the Dragic fiasco. But many here defended them as well. I don't know if I can blame them too much in this case since they pretty much HAD to trade Marcus, so how Kieff responds to that they can't really control.

I think Gambo, if he wants ANY info from Suns, should keep his mouth shut with rumors though. I believe it is probably true based on what we've seen, but for all we know his "source" could be Marcus tweeting that he won't be there for long. Gambo probably doesn't like Markieff and wants him gone himself too.

The biggest problem I see is that I can't see a trade that makes sense. Fischella's list of teams makes sense, except maybe Houston (since they like only 3s and driving) but I can't think of assets on that team that we could get back that would be a good deal for us. We will desperately need a PF, and preferably one that can play inside and out.

[Flying Colors]

Markieff is wildly inconsistent and will never be a starter on a good team. He's underachieved since college.

With that said, does this front office ever get an ounce of blame for repeatedly watching players' trade values bottom out before they actually trade them?

They got a ton of blame with the Dragic fiasco. But many here defended them as well. I don't know if I can blame them too much in this case since they pretty much HAD to trade Marcus, so how Kieff responds to that they can't really control.

I think Gambo, if he wants ANY info from Suns, should keep his mouth shut with rumors though. I believe it is probably true based on what we've seen, but for all we know his "source" could be Marcus tweeting that he won't be there for long. Gambo probably doesn't like Markieff and wants him gone himself too.

The biggest problem I see is that I can't see a trade that makes sense. Fischella's list of teams makes sense, except maybe Houston (since they like only 3s and driving) but I can't think of assets on that team that we could get back that would be a good deal for us. We will desperately need a PF, and preferably one that can play inside and out.

Yeah this is really what's bothering me with this tweet, like shut up gambo, stop taking away our leverage.

[bwgood77]

Markieff is wildly inconsistent and will never be a starter on a good team. He's underachieved since college.

With that said, does this front office ever get an ounce of blame for repeatedly watching players' trade values bottom out before they actually trade them?

I bang that drum a lot. Didn't sell high on Goran (got a good return, both objectively AND given the circumstances, but they still put themselves into a position of weakness and probably couldn't get maximum value). Didn't move Green while his value was high, then his value gutterballed and they couldn't move him without taking on trash. Panic moved IT, when it could have been possible to wait him out a little and get more.

The Suns have ALL the leverage in this situation and they SHOULD play hardball with Markieff. If they don't, then that's a huge, huge black mark on them. It will be yet another situation that they themselves created, where they had to negotiate from a position of weakness. It happens to every GM over their career, can't be too mad about that - sometimes, you take a risk that just doesn't pay off. When it becomes a pattern though, that's just terrible.

They've certainly made mistakes, but I really don't know if the trade value goes down that much. I think if teams think or know the Suns will deal him soon, they may throw their best offers out there and cause a bidding war because they don't want to miss out on getting that player. I think that is what happened with Dragic. If you are just calling around feeling out teams and what they might give up, you likely will never get their best offer. That is why many of the deals are typically made at the trade deadline, because teams know they are out of time and may put their best offers out there. If they feel they could run out of time here, that could happen in this situation.

All that being said, I wouldn't panic move him though. I'd wait out as long as I could for a reasonable offer. We have his rights for a long time.