Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

[bwgood77]

Don't be surprised Suns bring back Channing Frye. Just sayin


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That makes sense. If we could get Frye and another good young player or a first rounder, I'd take it. Then we hopefully draft our PF of the future next year or swing the fences again for a major signing or trade.

I'd rather get a guy like Ryan Anderson, but I'm sure Gentry wants him. Now if we could send Kieff to Orlando, Frye goes to New Orleans (they have the connection and Ithink GS tried to sign Frye last summer), then maybe we could get Anderson.

I'm not saying getting Frye is ideal, but I just don't know who we can get out there who makes more sense. It couldn't be straight up though. No way. I'm guessing Frye may not want to come back and McD won't want to trade for him after whatever Frye said about the Suns (it wasn't that bad, but McD may have taken it personally. Seems like he does.)

[RunDogGun]

Green's value was high(er) after the '13-'14 season. Even after that great year, he was pretty obviously not part of the long term plans. Would have been a great time to toss his expiring to a contender and nab a couple of small assets, ESPECIALLY if you want to sign IT who duplicates so much of what Green does without also carrying the hefty downside known as "not having a brain".

Suns missed out on using either Bledsoe or Dragic as a chip to move in on Love, or if that was impossible, just dealing Dragic in general after his '13-'14 season. Would've been a sick play to go for max value on the trade there and replace him with IT for a fraction of the price. The PR hit from that would have been extreme, though.

IT seemed to be at least friendly with every team mate not named Dragic, and a lot of them hung out this offseason according to social media. Hard to believe he was a cancer SO BAD that they couldn't have him around anymore and missed out on further boosting his value.

IT did vocalize his displeasure with not starting, and it seemed all along if we didn't have Goran, we wanted Knight.

I have no idea if we were ever in the running for Love. I don't think we could close to what the Cavs offered, do you?

As for Green, it was still unknown whether Goodwin or Warren was ready, so I think we held on to him as more of a just in case. But besides his agent bragging about multiple teams wanting him, I never heard of a deal.

[bwgood77]

@InsiderSuns: Sources say following a meeting with Markieff Morris, the Suns have quietly looked to trade him. Marcus revealed last week Keef will be gone

I dunno if i trust InsiderSuns for anything, not that i'm saying kieff isn't asking for a trade or anything, but that insidersuns always seem to just parrot information that has been out there.

Gambo probably operates that twitter account.

[bwgood77]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UceGF3M56bE[/youtube]

Great movie. So many great scenes. One of my favorites ever...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJpRSf4q-hI[/youtube]

[RunDogGun]

I'll wait for a more credible source, but to play along, if he doesn't report to camp, can we void his contract?

Like who, Stephen a smith, Steven kyler?

Gambo still knows more about what's going on with the Suns than anyone, especially any national reporter. That's the bottomline!! But your more than welcome to continue to make silly comments.

while Gambo is 99% right, not to anyone's surprise, I'm going to wait until I hear word from the organization or Markieff himself

Same here, I'll wait. As far as the poop, should I make silly comments like "but your more than welcome", when I really mean "you're more than welcome".

[tdjm]

I think if teams think or know the Suns will deal him soon, they may throw their best offers out there and cause a bidding war because they don't want to miss out on getting that player. I think that is what happened with Dragic. If you are just calling around feeling out teams and what they might give up, you likely will never get their best offer. That is why many of the deals are typically made at the trade deadline, because teams know they are out of time and may put their best offers out there. If they feel they could run out of time here, that could happen in this situation.

That's possible, but I'd say not likely. At this point, the best course of action for both Markieff and the Suns is for Markieff to make his displeasure known through back channels, and in the meantime, show up to training camp, practice etc. He's a professional under contract, which someone should remind him of.

If he honors his contract, maybe plays all right in the first month or two of the season, either he'll have a change of heart (not likely), or he'll reassure suitors that he's not a complete head case, which will open up more destinations.

At this point, who's likely to take a chance on him? Some contenders who are searching for the high risk high reward edge that will give them a leg up on the competition. If he goes to a team like that, he'll probably lose his starting role, lose touches and shots. He'll lose the chance to be a highly visible, high leverage player which matters a lot when it comes time to negotiate your next contract.

If he can keep it together for a few months, he can probably open up more suitors, more teams who recognize he's not completely insane. He'll have more destinations. The Suns haven't been excessively rude about trading players, Marcus went to a place where he'll have a big role, so did Goran. If Markieff can keep it together for a bit, he'll have a better opportunity to go to a good location for him as well. No guarantee he gets that if he decides to go nuclear, when the Suns have all the leverage and can very easily play hardball with him if they want to

[bwgood77]

I dunno if i trust InsiderSuns for anything, not that i'm saying kieff isn't asking for a trade or anything, but that insidersuns always seem to just parrot information that has been out there.

I'm pretty sure that InsiderSuns is just the collective hivemind of our board. Could be any one of the posters.

Honestly you might not be wrong, i don't have problem with that account in theory, i just wouldn't use their tweets as a way to validate rumours.

I can't remember if it was that account or not, but I mentioned one twitter account HAD to be run by one of our posters during the Aldridge stuff, because minutes after we discussed something here, there was a tweet with the exact info posted here from an account.

[NavLDO]

Markieff is wildly inconsistent and will never be a starter on a good team. He's underachieved since college.

With that said, does this front office ever get an ounce of blame for repeatedly watching players' trade values bottom out before they actually trade them?

They got a ton of blame with the Dragic fiasco. But many here defended them as well. I don't know if I can blame them too much in this case since they pretty much HAD to trade Marcus, so how Kieff responds to that they can't really control.

I think Gambo, if he wants ANY info from Suns, should keep his mouth shut with rumors though. I believe it is probably true based on what we've seen, but for all we know his "source" could be Marcus tweeting that he won't be there for long. Gambo probably doesn't like Markieff and wants him gone himself too.

The biggest problem I see is that I can't see a trade that makes sense. Fischella's list of teams makes sense, except maybe Houston (since they like only 3s and driving) but I can't think of assets on that team that we could get back that would be a good deal for us. We will desperately need a PF, and preferably one that can play inside and out.

When were they supposed to trade Kieff? Right after the incident? No GM was going to give fair value for Kieff UNTIL the verdict is decided.

The Morri put our FO in this position, not the other way around, so I'm not going to blame McD for this situation.

Dragic's trade value wasn't bottomed out when he was traded, and if he was traded before the season--well, wow, is all I have to say, as he would've been skewered.

IT 's value was just fine, he just wasn't traded for what I'd consider great value.

So, yes, McD has been questioned plenty, for his moves. But if Kieff was traded anytime within the past few months since he and his brother's legal issues, he would've been skewered as well.

And the majority of posters here very happy with McD signing Kieff for $8M per less than a year ago, and now, fans want to blame McD for Kieff's current situation? That, I don't understand.

[bwgood77]

I think if teams think or know the Suns will deal him soon, they may throw their best offers out there and cause a bidding war because they don't want to miss out on getting that player. I think that is what happened with Dragic. If you are just calling around feeling out teams and what they might give up, you likely will never get their best offer. That is why many of the deals are typically made at the trade deadline, because teams know they are out of time and may put their best offers out there. If they feel they could run out of time here, that could happen in this situation.

That's possible, but I'd say not likely. At this point, the best course of action for both Markieff and the Suns is for Markieff to make his displeasure known through back channels, and in the meantime, show up to training camp, practice etc. He's a professional under contract, which someone should remind him of.

If he honors his contract, maybe plays all right in the first month or two of the season, either he'll have a change of heart (not likely), or he'll reassure suitors that he's not a complete head case, which will open up more destinations.

At this point, who's likely to take a chance on him? Some contenders who are searching for the high risk high reward edge that will give them a leg up on the competition. If he goes to a team like that, he'll probably lose his starting role, lose touches and shots. He'll lose the chance to be a highly visible, high leverage player which matters a lot when it comes time to negotiate your next contract.

If he can keep it together for a few months, he can probably open up more suitors, more teams who recognize he's not completely insane. He'll have more destinations. The Suns haven't been excessively rude about trading players, Marcus went to a place where he'll have a big role, so did Goran. If Markieff can keep it together for a bit, he'll have a better opportunity to go to a good location for him as well. No guarantee he gets that if he decides to go nuclear, when the Suns have all the leverage and can very easily play hardball with him if they want to

Yeah, I edited that post at the end actually to say I wouldn't pull the trigger on a bad trade though. I am not sure. You just never know exactly what motivates teams to put out their absolute best offer. Some team could really want him and his contract and say they don't want to lose him and put something out there.

The one thing I will say I wonder about this FO though, is, do they really promise players one thing and then go back on that promise. It seems players have taken things overly personal and felt the FO screwed them with what Dragic said, the way the twins have reacted (though I know they lack many brain cells about acting appropriately), even Warren tweeting out that he didn't want to just be treated as a person and not an asset. That may not be related to the Suns though, because someone named Archie Davis tweeted it out first, and TJ Warren follows him. Even Frye said something.

I think the FO is good, but I wonder about this. But maybe Ainge taught McD..."tell them whatever you have to, to get them signed to a good contract, and then once they are under contract you can do whatever you want with them and they will eventually get over it." That statement makes some sense, but when you directly go back on a promise to a player (not saying that happened...but wondering if it did), the player is going to be rightfully unhappy.

[RunDogGun]

@InsiderSuns: Sources say following a meeting with Markieff Morris, the Suns have quietly looked to trade him. Marcus revealed last week Keef will be gone

I dunno if i trust InsiderSuns for anything, not that i'm saying kieff isn't asking for a trade or anything, but that insidersuns always seem to just parrot information that has been out there.

Gambo probably operates that twitter account.

If he does, it would be pretty dumb to say that Keef has refused to speak with any of the staff, and then tweet that there was a meeting. Unless that meeting happened between the two tweets, right? Sounds like guys grasping at straws after Marcus was having verbal diarrhea the other day. I'm not saying that Markieff doesn't want out, but at this point sources are still conflicting.

[bwgood77]

I dunno if i trust InsiderSuns for anything, not that i'm saying kieff isn't asking for a trade or anything, but that insidersuns always seem to just parrot information that has been out there.

Gambo probably operates that twitter account.

If he does, it would be pretty dumb to say that Keef has refused to speak with any of the staff, and then tweet that there was a meeting. Unless that meeting happened between the two tweets, right? Sounds like guys grasping at straws after Marcus was having verbal diarrhea the other day. I'm not saying that Markieff doesn't want out, but at this point sources are still conflicting.

I don't think he does. After someone else posted it, I think it is someone from this board because I think that account started tweeting exactly what we were talking about in this forum minutes after it was posted. Even things that likely were not being discussed outside of this board. I can't remember specifics but it was uncanny.

[RaisingArizona]

There are some seriously loyal Markieff supporters on here and I do not understand why. How many more things does this guy have to do to make you want him off the team? He destroyed the fan base. He is accused of felony aggravated assault. Now it comes out that he wants nothing to do with the Suns and has not spoken to the Suns staff or players since the trade of his brother. Supposedly he will ask for a trade when he meets with the Suns and if they do not accommodate him he will make it known how much he wants off the team. That is not my opinion. Those are Gambo's words from his show today. Let's not forget that all this drama is surrounding a player that averages 15 points and 6 rebounds a game with a low IQ. He is a bench player at best. This guy is not worth the trouble. Trade him for the best offer you get and move on. When he is gone, no one will even remember him. They will just remember a player that caused more harm than good.

1.The majority of our fans do suck. You get yelled at for standing or cheering loudly by other fans all the time.
2. Accused does not equal guilty. Seriously doubt he gets convicted.
3. How did you determine his basketball IQ? Seemed to me last year he was our best guy down the stretch-- and one of the best in the NBA in the clutch.
4. You hate on the guy any chance you get so it's not really worth trying to convince you otherwise.
5. I just wasted two minutes of my life.

[RaisingArizona]

@InsiderSuns: Sources say following a meeting with Markieff Morris, the Suns have quietly looked to trade him. Marcus revealed last week Keef will be gone

I dunno if i trust InsiderSuns for anything, not that i'm saying kieff isn't asking for a trade or anything, but that insidersuns always seem to just parrot information that has been out there.

I'm pretty sure that InsiderSuns is just the collective hivemind of our board. Could be any one of the posters.

[AtheJ415]

I still say don't trade him unless it's for something good that fits our core age. We have him for 5 years at next to nothing. Doesn't want to be here? Tough. Then don't sign a 5 year contract extension.

[letsgosuns]

There are some seriously loyal Markieff supporters on here and I do not understand why. How many more things does this guy have to do to make you want him off the team? He destroyed the fan base. He is accused of felony aggravated assault. Now it comes out that he wants nothing to do with the Suns and has not spoken to the Suns staff or players since the trade of his brother. Supposedly he will ask for a trade when he meets with the Suns and if they do not accommodate him he will make it known how much he wants off the team. That is not my opinion. Those are Gambo's words from his show today. Let's not forget that all this drama is surrounding a player that averages 15 points and 6 rebounds a game with a low IQ. He is a bench player at best. This guy is not worth the trouble. Trade him for the best offer you get and move on. When he is gone, no one will even remember him. They will just remember a player that caused more harm than good.

1.The majority of our fans do suck. You get yelled at for standing or cheering loudly by other fans all the time.
2. Accused does not equal guilty. Seriously doubt he gets convicted.
3. How did you determine his basketball IQ? Seemed to me last year he was our best guy down the stretch-- and one of the best in the NBA in the clutch.
4. You hate on the guy any chance you get so it's not really worth trying to convince you otherwise.
5. I just wasted two minutes of my life.

Wasted two minutes of your life? Then why bother responding.

[letsgosuns]

I still say don't trade him unless it's for something good that fits our core age. We have him for 5 years at next to nothing. Doesn't want to be here? Tough. Then don't sign a 5 year contract extension.

It is going to be hard to mend fences at this point. The guy does not even want to speak to players supposedly. If you listen to Gambo's podcast today, you can tell how badly Markieff wants off the Suns. Then soon after Gambo's report comes out, Markieff tweets "No love lost...#FOEInc." I agree that he has to suck it up and play if the Suns do not trade him but there is so much animosity it puts a dark cloud over next season before it even begins. The Suns are trying to distance themselves from last year's debacle and move in a positive direction. How can they do that if Markieff acts like this? I do not want to go into next season where the Suns have a major problem with their starting power forward. I want players that buy into the organization. Not this loser.

[saintEscaton]

I still say don't trade him unless it's for something good that fits our core age. We have him for 5 years at next to nothing. Doesn't want to be here? Tough. Then don't sign a 5 year contract extension.

Kieff probably wanted a contract stipulation that would annul his binding agreement and make him an FA if he was seperated from Mook. He should have foreseen the inevitable and taken more money for himself when it was on the table to be divided up between them

[thamadkant]

As predicted by some here (and myself).

Kieff Morris will be traded.

You cant have a negative influence. You have to enter the season fresh and with everyone on the same page.

My targets.
- Zeller + pick(s)
- Porzingis (Suns to add Tucker perhaps)
- Vonleh
- Sullinger + other assets.
- Mirotic

[AtheJ415]

I still say don't trade him unless it's for something good that fits our core age. We have him for 5 years at next to nothing. Doesn't want to be here? Tough. Then don't sign a 5 year contract extension.

Kieff probably wanted a contract stipulation that would annul his binding agreement and make him an FA if he was seperated from Mook. He should have foreseen the inevitable and taken more money for himself when it was on the table to be divided up between them

I don't think Markieff is nearly intelligent enough to understand half of that.

[Nando88]

START TELLY! he'd be great next to chandler


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