Ben Simmons

[splendidham]

I'd have said Simmons is more athletic then GA but giannis has way more length. So in theory GA is the better defender and always will be. I think Ben is an exceptional defender when he puts in the effort though and will surprise some people there when he turns pro


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[Marcus]

So i watched some Hardwood Classics over the weekend and they showed a game where Grant Hill (Pistons) dropped 46 on the Wizards. Watching Grant get a lot of his buckets off of cuts and finding open space and beating bigger defenders when he did go one on one further cemented my belief that Ben could be that type of player seeing as how that's the way he currently operates in terms of his bucket getting.

How he does it at the college level will be telling and he obviously doesn't have Grant's midrange at the moment but I think this is where the Aussie ends up comp wise.

[ItsThatEasy]

So i watched some Hardwood Classics over the weekend and they showed a game where Grant Hill (Pistons) dropped 46 on the Wizards. Watching Grant get a lot of his buckets off of cuts and finding open space and beating bigger defenders when he did go one on one further cemented my belief that Ben could be that type of player seeing as how that's the way he currently operates in terms of his bucket getting.

How he does it at the college level will be telling and he obviously doesn't have Grant's midrange at the moment but I think this is where the Aussie ends up comp wise.

I'm very Pro-Ben but you definitely have to take into account the rule changes in how the game is played since the 90's as well as the system he ends up in.

[Prez]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong - isn't Simmons basically a less athletically-gifted Giannis?

He's Giannis with a lower ceiling, that's what I gather from everything I've seen. Tall forward who can handle and pass like they've spent hours watching Magic Johnson highlights. But not a great outside shooter. Looks like a superstar in transition, but then you come back to earth when you see them in the half court. PF sized, but no post game (Giannis will back down smaller guys on mismatches but that's about it. Likewise, Simmons probably won't be able to post up guys his own size in the NBA).

I'm not 100% sure where his defense is at ? But he's not quite elite in terms of defensive measurables/tools and isn't overly disruptive on that end. That's why I say his ceiling is lower than GA, the Greek Freak has the tools to reach a prime-Kirilenko level impact on defense.

I think this is a solid comparison. It's tough to analyze thoroughly because both are still changing physically. Watching Giannis during the Africa game a few days ago and now with the national team, he's clearly added mass and looks legit PF sized now, comparable to some centers even. 6'11", 7'4-5" wingspan, strong 230-235. Similar frame to Davis at the same age. Ben to me doesn't have nearly that type of length (6'11" wingspan vs 7'4", shorter, etc) but is also probably still growing. He's got a stronger frame though, he's much closer to traditional PF size in terms of bulk (not length) than Giannis, although again Giannis is adding mass.

Athletically Ben to me is more vertically explosive but not by too much, Giannis has more bounce than he usually shows, he has this weird athletic thing about him where he puts most of his explosiveness into his strides, he's more of a gliding athlete than a power athlete. But every now and then he'll get up. Ben is more consistently explosive vertically. Giannis has better body control and fluidity imo but not by much.

They both have clear point forward vision but I think Ben's is a bit more refined considering his basketball background, Giannis despite being a year older is really only scratching the surface of his playmaking potential. Both are beasts in transition with similar handles on the break but I think Giannis' significantly more length gives him an advantage there. Giannis as you said has at the very least a foundation for his post game, has a hook on both wings, up an under, spin move, turnaround fade, etc. Nothing super refined but the skill-base is there in progress. I think Ben should be able to develop a decent post game but like you said it'll be tough because he's not as long.

Defensively is where I think they're different. Giannis has some pretty crazy potential defensively, won't throw out any homer comparisons but as the season went on there were stretches where he "got it" and was just a force on that end. Still figuring things out, not 100% consistent yet, but the potential is as high as anyone's there. Simmons I haven't seen too much of defensively but if he can become a hybrid defensive forward like an Aaron Gordon...that'd be awesome. I certainly think he has the potential. Length might be an issue but his athleticism might compensate.

[Illmatic12]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong - isn't Simmons basically a less athletically-gifted Giannis?

He's Giannis with a lower ceiling, that's what I gather from everything I've seen. Tall forward who can handle and pass like they've spent hours watching Magic Johnson highlights. But not a great outside shooter. Looks like a superstar in transition, but then you come back to earth when you see them in the half court. PF sized, but no post game (Giannis will back down smaller guys on mismatches but that's about it. Likewise, Simmons probably won't be able to post up guys his own size in the NBA).

I'm not 100% sure where his defense is at ? But he's not quite elite in terms of defensive measurables/tools and isn't overly disruptive on that end. That's why I say his ceiling is lower than GA, the Greek Freak has the tools to reach a prime-Kirilenko level impact on defense.

I think this is a solid comparison. It's tough to analyze thoroughly because both are still changing physically. Watching Giannis during the Africa game a few days ago and now with the national team, he's clearly added mass and looks legit PF sized now, comparable to some centers even. 6'11", 7'4-5" wingspan, strong 230-235. Similar frame to Davis at the same age. Ben to me doesn't have nearly that type of length (6'11" wingspan vs 7'4", shorter, etc) but is also probably still growing. He's got a stronger frame though, he's much closer to traditional PF size in terms of bulk (not length) than Giannis, although again Giannis is adding mass.

Athletically Ben to me is more vertically explosive but not by too much, Giannis has more bounce than he usually shows, he has this weird athletic thing about him where he puts most of his explosiveness into his strides, he's more of a gliding athlete than a power athlete. But every now and then he'll get up. Ben is more consistently explosive vertically. Giannis has better body control and fluidity imo but not by much.

They both have clear point forward vision but I think Ben's is a bit more refined considering his basketball background, Giannis despite being a year older is really only scratching the surface of his playmaking potential. Both are beasts in transition with similar handles on the break but I think Giannis' significantly more length gives him an advantage there. Giannis as you said has at the very least a foundation for his post game, has a hook on both wings, up an under, spin move, turnaround fade, etc. Nothing super refined but the skill-base is there in progress. I think Ben should be able to develop a decent post game but like you said it'll be tough because he's not as long.

Defensively is where I think they're different. Giannis has some pretty crazy potential defensively, won't throw out any homer comparisons but as the season went on there were stretches where he "got it" and was just a force on that end. Still figuring things out, not 100% consistent yet, but the potential is as high as anyone's there. Simmons I haven't seen too much of defensively but if he can become a hybrid defensive forward like an Aaron Gordon...that'd be awesome. I certainly think he has the potential. Length might be an issue but his athleticism might compensate.

Agreed about Giannis defensive potential, that's going to vastly elevate his impact above a player like Simmons. I don't see Simmons having the length or instincts to be a bigtime defensive player like that. And re: playmaking, you can tell that Simmons has been playing basketball for longer because he's so polished as a passer. But Giannis is learning from Kidd and you really can't find a better mentor for playmaking.

It'll be really interesting to see how Simmons looks in college. I want to see how he looks defensively, and if he can make leaps in his perimeter shooting his prospects would go way up.

[Talent Chaser]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong - isn't Simmons basically a less athletically-gifted Giannis?

He's Giannis with a lower ceiling, that's what I gather from everything I've seen. Tall forward who can handle and pass like they've spent hours watching Magic Johnson highlights. But not a great outside shooter. Looks like a superstar in transition, but then you come back to earth when you see them in the half court. PF sized, but no post game (Giannis will back down smaller guys on mismatches but that's about it. Likewise, Simmons probably won't be able to post up guys his own size in the NBA).

I'm not 100% sure where his defense is at ? But he's not quite elite in terms of defensive measurables/tools and isn't overly disruptive on that end. That's why I say his ceiling is lower than GA, the Greek Freak has the tools to reach a prime-Kirilenko level impact on defense.

It's cool to see more versatile forwards coming up through the ranks, however despite looking impressive in highlights not all of these guys become 'superstars' at the NBA level. Durant was the very rare exception, he has natural scoring ability that you can't teach.

Lamar Odom is another guy who was similar to Simmons, he was a better prospect though due to his taller/longer frame.

That's my problem with Simmons. He's a great player who will fit in extremely well with the direction the NBA is heading. When you look at his game nothing stands out as particularly elite. Yes, he's a great transition finisher and playmaker. However, I think he will struggle in the half court. In order to go #1 you need to be a great scorer or have the potential to be a great scorer. I think he lacks that.

[76ciology]

You guys think Simmons is skilled enough to score around 20ppg against good long athletic defenders like Ariza or Kawhi? For now, I can't see it. Quite unfair? Well, he's a top 3 prospect so there will be high expectations from him.

[ItsThatEasy]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong - isn't Simmons basically a less athletically-gifted Giannis?

He's Giannis with a lower ceiling, that's what I gather from everything I've seen. Tall forward who can handle and pass like they've spent hours watching Magic Johnson highlights. But not a great outside shooter. Looks like a superstar in transition, but then you come back to earth when you see them in the half court. PF sized, but no post game (Giannis will back down smaller guys on mismatches but that's about it. Likewise, Simmons probably won't be able to post up guys his own size in the NBA).

I'm not 100% sure where his defense is at ? But he's not quite elite in terms of defensive measurables/tools and isn't overly disruptive on that end. That's why I say his ceiling is lower than GA, the Greek Freak has the tools to reach a prime-Kirilenko level impact on defense.

It's cool to see more versatile forwards coming up through the ranks, however despite looking impressive in highlights not all of these guys become 'superstars' at the NBA level. Durant was the very rare exception, he has natural scoring ability that you can't teach.

Lamar Odom is another guy who was similar to Simmons, he was a better prospect though due to his taller/longer frame.

That's my problem with Simmons. He's a great player who will fit in extremely well with the direction the NBA is heading. When you look at his game nothing stands out as particularly elite. Yes, he's a great transition finisher and playmaker. However, I think he will struggle in the half court. In order to go #1 you need to be a great scorer or have the potential to be a great scorer. I think he lacks that.

I think his passing is certainly elite for his position.

[GimmeDat]

You guys think Simmons is skilled enough to score around 20ppg against good long athletic defenders like Ariza or Kawhi? For now, I can't see it. Quite unfair? Well, he's a top 3 prospect so there will be high expectations from him.

From everything I've seen, I think Ben's more of a new-age PF though. Wing defenders like Ariza/Leonard will do a good job on anyone but I do think Ben has the size (and the strength, at least for his age) to work them down low.

Again, it comes down to him refining his half-court game. He needs a go-to offensive skill-set to put it all together.

I'd also point out, I don't think Ben's a bad shooter, he's got solid mechanics, he just rarely settles for jumpers. Good in the sense that he's aggressive and looking for high percentage shots, but when it comes to the NBA, he'll definitely need to show that he can hit it. It's a question mark but it's not like his shot is broken or anything, he just needs to display it this college season.

[76ciology]

You guys think Simmons is skilled enough to score around 20ppg against good long athletic defenders like Ariza or Kawhi? For now, I can't see it. Quite unfair? Well, he's a top 3 prospect so there will be high expectations from him.

From everything I've seen, I think Ben's more of a new-age PF though. Wing defenders like Ariza/Leonard will do a good job on anyone but I do think Ben has the size (and the strength, at least for his age) to work them down low.

Again, it comes down to him refining his half-court game. He needs a go-to offensive skill-set to put it all together.

I'd also point out, I don't think Ben's a bad shooter, he's got solid mechanics, he just rarely settles for jumpers. Good in the sense that he's aggressive and looking for high percentage shots, but when it comes to the NBA, he'll definitely need to show that he can hit it. It's a question mark but it's not like his shot is broken or anything, he just needs to display it this college season.

How do you say that? Isn't new age PF guys like Melo, LBJ to some extent Jabari or Draymond Green? Guys who can play wing and PF while at the same time space out the floor and be an important component of the PnR offense which is the trend nowadays.

This is my personal opinion for now, Simmons is not long enough to be an elite SF nor does he even have the length (short standing reach) to play PF. The only way he can be elite is for him to be very skilled to make up for his lack of length at SF or be that skilled enough to allow him to play SG.

[bigboi]

I just don't find Simmons to be impressive. The lack of shiftiness concerns me

[Justwar]

Way more Billy owens then hill or giannis

[splendidham]

So no length, too small for even SF, can't shoot, is a stiff, can't jump and not shifty enough. Have I got it all?


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[ppedro123]

Isn't Simmons like 6-9 or 6-10??

[crazy_me_87]

So no length, too small for even SF, can't shoot, is a stiff, can't jump and not shifty enough. Have I got it all?


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Dont know if you where sarcastic if you where i will use youre post as an excample nothing more:

The negativity is getting crazy here.

Hes not got an amazing wingspant so what? He wont be defensive player of the year. Look at how Blake Griffin is doomed with simillar measurements.

If we could quit to ONLY focus on wingspan when we talk about "too small" and look at him beeing 6'95 with a 6'11 wingspan if he plays SF he is not "small" in any way.

He the "cant shoot" thing is stupid.. how many great wings have came into the NBA without a consistent jumper? like almost all of them? Kevin Durant shooting skills at age 19 are NOT the norm and NOT the standard.

Where is that "stiff" term coming from i actually see him as "smooth" and well coordinated.

"cant jump" well he reportetly has a 41' vertical so yeah.. he cant jump at all^^


Why do people rip apart 19yo Kids instead of beeing excited for what they COULD become? Are so many people THAT cynical?

[EMG518]

I cant fathom what people are seeing that they think this guy is going to be a wing player. If he isnt a power foward I dont know what is.

[immortalone23]

So no length, too small for even SF, can't shoot, is a stiff, can't jump and not shifty enough. Have I got it all?


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Dont know if you where sarcastic if you where i will use youre post as an excample nothing more:

The negativity is getting crazy here.

Hes not got an amazing wingspant so what? He wont be defensive player of the year. Look at how Blake Griffin is doomed with simillar measurements.

If we could quit to ONLY focus on wingspan when we talk about "too small" and look at him beeing 6'95 with a 6'11 wingspan if he plays SF he is not "small" in any way.

He the "cant shoot" thing is stupid.. how many great wings have came into the NBA without a consistent jumper? like almost all of them? Kevin Durant shooting skills at age 19 are NOT the norm and NOT the standard.

Where is that "stiff" term coming from i actually see him as "smooth" and well coordinated.

"cant jump" well he reportetly has a 41' vertical so yeah.. he cant jump at all^^


Why do people rip apart 19yo Kids instead of beeing excited for what they COULD become? Are so many people THAT cynical?

Pump and Dump. We pump these guys up so much and dump them later. We have unrealistic expectations for freshman to be perfect products yet we still have prospects.

[splendidham]

So no length, too small for even SF, can't shoot, is a stiff, can't jump and not shifty enough. Have I got it all?


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Dont know if you where sarcastic if you where i will use youre post as an excample nothing more:

The negativity is getting crazy here.

Hes not got an amazing wingspant so what? He wont be defensive player of the year. Look at how Blake Griffin is doomed with simillar measurements.

If we could quit to ONLY focus on wingspan when we talk about "too small" and look at him beeing 6'95 with a 6'11 wingspan if he plays SF he is not "small" in any way.

He the "cant shoot" thing is stupid.. how many great wings have came into the NBA without a consistent jumper? like almost all of them? Kevin Durant shooting skills at age 19 are NOT the norm and NOT the standard.

Where is that "stiff" term coming from i actually see him as "smooth" and well coordinated.

"cant jump" well he reportetly has a 41' vertical so yeah.. he cant jump at all^^


Why do people rip apart 19yo Kids instead of beeing excited for what they COULD become? Are so many people THAT cynical?

Yeah, I was being sarcastic. Was getting a bit over every post being negative


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[Talent Chaser]

The point is is Simmons will never be an elite scorer. He's strictly a PF and if he can't be elite defensively I don't see why he would be picked top 5 in the draft.

[crazy_me_87]

The point is is Simmons will never be an elite scorer. He's strictly a PF and if he can't be elite defensively I don't see why he would be picked top 5 in the draft.

Now please tell me how you can be so sure? what do you "know" that i dont?

He Scored 28 during his HS time. The same as Lebron.

He has not a great shot now but his jumper isnt broken either. Shooting is the easiest to get better at.
So why are you so sure? Tell me please.

Also how can you say he is strictly a PF. He is faster than almost all College level SFs he has played against. So sure the NBA SFs are even faster but he is quick enough to not be a total defensive desaster.

I still see him as a Grant Hill type of career guy. 17-22ppg 6-8rpg 4-6apg. That doesnt make him lebron.. or GOAT.
But he absolutly can have a Grant Hill,Paul Pierce etc type career.