2015 season dodgers game thread

[Quake Griffin]

Puig's problems stem from his taking his spot on the roster for granted. His lack of focus and discipline comes from his heavy dependence on his physical talents and aggressive nature to see him through. I've said before that I want the Dodgers to put him on notice and limit his playing time with the aim to turn the light bulb in his head.

The special treatment he received and lack of enforcement of clubhouse rules and codes he's flouted has come home to roost. In order to reach his full potential, this stallion has to be broken before he can be a worthy racehorse. Yasiel is starting to see it, but he needs to further commit. He continues to make base-running mistake and his approach to the plate continues to lack discipline. Hitting a homerun off a hanging pitch from Aaron Harang, while welcomed, is not really that impressive given his tools.

I'm absolutley fine with giving opportunities to other Dodgers outfielders and implementing a more merit-based system of rewarding playing time for production and conduct.

Mark Saxon, ESPN (8/6/15)

A bit less playing time might be something Puig has to get used to, manager Don Mattingly said, because the team would like to get Carl Crawford more playing time and Andre Ethier has provided the most consistent offense from any of the outfielders.

"I think the days off are good for Yasiel, honestly," Mattingly said. "I don’t know if he was just used to playing less games in Cuba, but his focus just seems sharper when he’s getting a day-off-a-week or something like that."

Yasiel Puig Might Get Less Playing Time Now

So the answer is to give him the most random day off and then throw him back in there against Gerrit Cole?
I'm actually a fan of the merit based system and Andre's performance has made stuff like this necessary….but this specific instance was just wack to me.

He started to rack up a couple hits against the Angels. We had a day off between the series. He didn't need a day off yesterday. He needed to see if he was onto something with opening up his stance.

[Ranma]

So the answer is to give him the most random day off and then throw him back in there against Gerrit Cole?
I'm actually a fan of the merit based system and Andre's performance has made stuff like this necessary….but this specific instance was just wack to me.

He started to rack up a couple hits against the Angels. We had a day off between the series. He didn't need a day off yesterday. He needed to see if he was onto something with opening up his stance.

I'm all for getting Puig to build up momentum toward fulfilling his potential, but I get the sense that he's not there yet. I mean you're right that it seems a bit odd to bench a guy after going 2-4 with a HR but I trust that Mattingly and McGwire continue to see things they don't like with his approach. In fact, during today's telecast, the broadcast team noted that Puig struck out on a pitch where he swung over the top of a ball that should have been an easy one for him to drive.

Everyone has been telling him to take the first pitch more but he seems to still struggle with that even if he's taking the occasional initial pitch of an at-bat. I think the the coaches are more concerned with his approach than results at this point with him since the former will lead to the latter more consistently. Going after the first pitch seems to be a Cuban thing where Alex Guerrero has been suffering from it for an extended period now. Major league pitchers have gotten wise to both Guerrero and Puig in not giving them anything to hit, yet both Alex and Yasiel continue to consistently swing freely without discipline.

It is more important for Puig to realize that he has to proactively change his habits, because like I said, hitting a homerun off an Aaron Harang mistake only to miss at other meatballs is not really progress. The guy is batting .214 so far in August despite the 2-4 game, so he needs to get himself right and consistently put up better numbers.

I'm not saying Carl Crawford deserves a spot more than Puig, but I don't mind giving opportunities to Crawford, Scott Van Slyke, Joc Pederson, and Andre Ethier over him if that's what it takes to reach him. It seems the organization has tried just about everything else and he's been slow to get it.

The days off for him are less about rest for Puig than it is about urgency for him to implement more discipline into his game ASAP. Giving him irregular and unexpected playing time should keep him on his toes and send a clear message to him that he needs to change his batting approach regardless of the results.

[Neddy]

I don't see how taking at bats away is going to teach him a lesson. you are talking about a 24 year old kid who defected from a closed society that is piss poor, who suddenly found wealth beyond his imagination. he said he got out of his slump once he stopped playing so much soccer video game, hell he probably never had a video game to play or even seen one in Cuba. he is essentially a 24 year old from a third world who is going 14 year old American teenager boy. have you tried to discipline a teen? sometimes encouragement goes a hell of a lot farther than grounding them. often, it makes the attitude even worse.

what I think the dodgers should do, is do exactly what we had done in the past with players such as Nomo or what we are doing now with Ryu. give them an interpreter who not only speaks the same language, but are older and mature, who plays their guidance role. remember Martin Kim who was from dodgers PR department? Ryu really looked up to the guy and learned American culture from him, at the speed that Ryu was comfortable with. Martin even became a pseudo celeb in South Korea for a short while. the new interpreter is even older, and have license in cooking, runs Ryu's schedule and accompanied him 24/7 on the road to make sure he didn't do anything foolish. well, until he got hurt anyway. Im sure once things are back to normal you will see some random looking old korean guy being glued to Ryu next season once again.

give Puig a CubanAmerican, older, wiser interpreter whom Puig can find a mentor in, and all his off field issues of him being late to practice and other none sense will become a thing of history. once his off field issue is a non-issue, his on field will take its course and I have no doubt we will see a more mature version of him soon, kinda like DJ with the clips. taking away his at bats will only result in making Ethier of last season. and Carl Crawford needs to sit his ass down. he can't field anymore, doesn't have an arm strength to play anywhere but LF, and even when he was hitting .300 last season his OPS was still just average. he has no business playing regularly. he is just a 20 million a season bench player a la Vernon Wells at this point of his career.

[Quake Griffin]

Speaking of a teenager….anybody have the details on Yasiel's son?

I followed the instagram trail one day and it seems like the mother is just some random woman dating a completely different guy. I definitely didn't get the idea that they were ever head over heels in love with each other etc. etc. and it just didn't work out for one reason or another.

That's just my impression. It could be totally wrong.
But that could be another distraction for him as well.

[Ranma]

I'm not a parent so I have to defer that area of expertise, but I have seen my friends' kids and I've witnessed how coddling without discipline can spoil a child's development and that's been the case here with Yasiel Puig to an extent. He's placed himself above the team, which is the cause of some friction among his teammates and he's even ignored on-field in-game instructions from teammates like Adrian Gonzalez that have directly led to giving up hits to opponents.

Teams like the Giants have won the World Series 3 out of 5 years and the Cardinals have consistently vanquished us in the postseason because they have everyone on the same page and pulling together in the same direction in playing the game the right way. Puig's production no longer affords him the patience and dismissing of his shortcomings on the field and in the locker room.

The team has already tried just about everything including hiring Eddie Oropesa as a dedicated mentor for him. Yes, he's come from a different culture and way of life, but other international players have come in and assimilated in smoother fashion and it all has to do with attitude and dedication. He belongs in the minor leagues, to be honest, with such a demeanor and lack of production. It's been high past time that he act like a grown man, especially now with Quake saying he already has a son.

We're trying to conquer our postseason demons in pursuit of a World Series championship. We can longer afford to wait on him to be an adult and take the game seriously and for his production get up to par. For as questionable as Crawford is, even he is out-producing Puig coming back from injury. The Dodgers have other options including Scott Van Slyke, so I'm no longer in the mood to have him go invisible man on us again down the stretch or in the playoffs.

The only thing that seems to reach him is limiting his playing time. He's working on his batting stance, which has still yet to be solidified, so there is a need for him to get more at bats, but he has to earn it. Handling Yasiel with kid's gloves hasn't work, so he has to prove to the organization and fans that he truly wants to stay and contribute as a Dodger. Like I said, it goes beyond just his numbers, but also approach and I'm fine with Mattingly and McGwire dropping the hammer on him whenever they see fit.

Bill Plaschke, Los Angeles Times (2/16/13)

Puig, 22, needed a baby sitter. Oropesa, 41, needed a final triumph in a game that once broke his heart. It was a match made in the imagination of Watson and scouting director Logan White, who arranged for the pairing late last summer when they realized that Puig's rough edges could risk not only the Dodgers' huge investment, but their foreign-market credibility.

"It's about cultural assimilation," says Watson. "We needed someone to help Puig grow."
...

When Oropesa found Puig, the kid was a mess. Puig was used to playing an easygoing, amateur Cuban brand of baseball. During his early days in the Arizona rookie league and for Class-A Rancho Cucamonga, he would sometimes engage friends in the stands during games, he wouldn't always run hard, and once mimicked an opposing manager who was arguing with an umpire.

"He was too much, his attitude was too much, he had to learn everything," Oropesa says.

Oropesa moved in with Puig and immediately began teaching him the nuances of everything from restaurants to clubhouses.

"He was like a little kid, getting that kind of money, going around talking too loud," Oropesa says. "And when somebody on the team tried to help him he would say, 'No, in Cuba, I do it this way.' You don't say that here. You play their way. You change."

Yasiel Puig, Eddie Oropesa: In Dodgers Camp They're Perfect Match

[Neddy]

I'm not a parent so I have to defer that area of expertise, but I have seen my friend's kids and I've witnessed how coddling without discipline can spoil a child's development and that's been the case here with Yasiel Puig to an extent. He's placed himself above the team, which is the cause of some friction among his teammates and he's even ignored on-field in-game instructions from teammates like Adrian Gonzalez that have directly led to giving up hits to opponents.

Teams like the Giants have won the World Series 3 out of 5 years and the Cardinals have consistently vanquished us in the postseason because they have everyone on the same page and pulling together in the same direction in playing the game the right way. Puig's production no longer affords him the patience and dismissing of his shortcomings on the field and in the locker room.

The team has already tried just about everything including hiring Eddie Oropesa as a dedicated mentor for him. Yes, he's come from a different culture and way of life, but other international players have come in and assimilated in smoother fashion and it all has to do with attitude and dedication. He belongs in the minor leagues, to be honest, with such a demeanor and lack of production. It's been high past time that he act like a grown man, especially now with Quake saying he already has a son.

We're trying to conquer our postseason demons in a pursuit of a World Series championship. We can longer afford to wait on him to be an adult and take the game seriously and for his production get up to par. For as questionable as Crawford is, even he is out-producing Puig coming back from injury. The Dodgers have other options including Scott Van Slyke, so I'm no longer in the mood to have him go invisible man again down the stretch or in the playoffs.

The only thing that seems to reach him in is limiting his playing time. He's working on his batting stance, which has still yet to be solidified, so there is a need for him to get more at bats, but he has to earn it. Handling Yasiel with kid's gloves hasn't work, so he has to prove to the organization and fans that he truly wants to stay and contribute as a Dodger. Like I said, it goes beyond just his numbers, but also approach and I'm fine with Mattingly and McGwire dropping the hammer on him whenever they see fit.

Bill Plaschke, Los Angeles Times (2/16/13)

Puig, 22, needed a baby sitter. Oropesa, 41, needed a final triumph in a game that once broke his heart. It was a match made in the imagination of Watson and scouting director Logan White, who arranged for the pairing late last summer when they realized that Puig's rough edges could risk not only the Dodgers' huge investment, but their foreign-market credibility.

"It's about cultural assimilation," says Watson. "We needed someone to help Puig grow."
...

When Oropesa found Puig, the kid was a mess. Puig was used to playing an easygoing, amateur Cuban brand of baseball. During his early days in the Arizona rookie league and for Class-A Rancho Cucamonga, he would sometimes engage friends in the stands during games, he wouldn't always run hard, and once mimicked an opposing manager who was arguing with an umpire.

"He was too much, his attitude was too much, he had to learn everything," Oropesa says.

Oropesa moved in with Puig and immediately began teaching him the nuances of everything from restaurants to clubhouses.

"He was like a little kid, getting that kind of money, going around talking too loud," Oropesa says. "And when somebody on the team tried to help him he would say, 'No, in Cuba, I do it this way.' You don't say that here. You play their way. You change."

Yasiel Puig, Eddie Oropesa: In Dodgers Camp They're Perfect Match

there is a major difference between letting your kids be raised unruly, and there is that teenage days every human being on the **** planet goes through, but once the child is grown physically, trying to bring in those discipline will only push them further. if you think being a tough love parent is the way to go to fix this 24 year old man child, I suggest we trade him now. you will not get the growth and maturity you are looking for in him within the time frame you wishes to have, by telling him to sit in the corner. that's something you do to a seven year old. it won't work when that same kid is seventeen let alone a 24 year old millionaire. I obviously do not know Puig personally, but from seeing all of his body language, he appears to be the type to respond to positive re-enforcement far better than the negative one. if negative re-enforcement is the method we choose, it better be coming from someone he actually has respect for.

having said that, I did not know we already paired Puig with someone already, so whatever came out of this relationship? are they still together, carrying on the same relationship? if so I just can't see how he would still have trouble getting to the practice on time unless A) he is a terrible mentor himself or B) this guy is not really in Puig's day to day life at all.

[Neddy]

Speaking of a teenager….anybody have the details on Yasiel's son?

I followed the instagram trail one day and it seems like the mother is just some random woman dating a completely different guy. I definitely didn't get the idea that they were ever head over heels in love with each other etc. etc. and it just didn't work out for one reason or another.

That's just my impression. It could be totally wrong.
But that could be another distraction for him as well.

he has a kid already? from Cuba or since coming over?

[Neddy]

...

... and one more thing, why not send him down to the minors for a couple of weeks to work on his swing? seems much more productive and clearer message in terms of discipline than just limiting his at bats away. is it in his contract that he cannot be send down unless he agrees like Ryu had?

[Ranma]

there is a major difference between letting your kids be raised unruly, and there is that teenage days every human being on the **** planet goes through, but once the child is grown physically, trying to bring in those discipline will only push them further. if you think being a tough love parent is the way to go to fix this 24 year old man child, I suggest we trade him now. you will not get the grow you are looking for in him by telling him to sit in the corner. that's something you do to a seven year old. it won't work when that same kid is seventeen. someday if you ever have kids, whether they are biologically yours or not, these theoretical parenting is just a bunch of hot air.

having said that, I did not know we already paired Puig with someone already, so whatever came out of this relationship? are they still together, carrying on the same relationship? if so I just can't see how he would still have trouble getting to the practice on time unless A) he is a terrible mentor himself or B) this guy is not really in Puig's day to day life at all.

Puig has run out of excuses. The organization has been more than patient with him. When will it be Puig's responsibility instead of someone else's for him to handle his own business? Waiting for a 24-year-old man-child to get his ish together is not the most productive of approaches. It's ultimately up to Puig whether he will be a productive contributor for the Dodgers. Given his high upside and the sell-low point, I'm okay with seeing how it plays out further, but I no longer count on him to be a cornerstone player for the organization. If he needs to be dealt, so be it.

How many more years should we wait on him before we can expect for him to man up? Is he really worth putting up with the discord when we're trying to match up with the Giants and Cardinals with their team-first approach to successful postseason play? Puig isn't hitting because he's not laying off the first pitches, so it's McGwire's fault? Puig continues to act unruly, so it's his mentor's fault? Puig still hasn't matured or reached his potential and it's the Dodgers' fault for not being more patient with him?

Seriously, when are we going to hold Puig accountable for his actions? When can we actually implement discipline for a 24-year-old? If we're going to treat him like a teenager, should we then wait for him to reach his 30's before expecting him to get his act together?

Look, it makes sense to continue on in developing him in hoping for that big payoff of him realizing his full potential, but he needs to be imparted with the urgency of the matter and taking away his playing time is the only thing that seems to be the most direct and effective way of communicating that to him. It's not like the organization is shunning him. The Dodgers are still working on fixing his batting stance and approach. He's still getting to play even when his performance doesn't warrant it albeit less.

If he doesn't realize by now that he's not bigger than the team, relegating him to the bench more should be a clear message. If he's going to continue to pout and demand special treatment, then by all means, get rid of his thick-headed butt*.


*Not advocating to simply dump him, but rather to work out trades to either get a promising package of prospects or packaging him along with prospects for a more reliable big-name major league player.

[Ranma]

...

... and one more thing, why not send him down to the minors for a couple of weeks to work on his swing? seems much more productive and clearer message in terms of discipline than just limiting his at bats away. is it in his contract that he cannot be send down unless he agrees like Ryu had?

I'd love to send him down to the minors since that would get him regular work and be the best way to send a clear message to him, but I get the sense that that is not an option beyond rehabbing from an injury. I'm not sure if it's in his contract or if it has to do with his age and service time.

[Quake Griffin]

Speaking of a teenager….anybody have the details on Yasiel's son?

I followed the instagram trail one day and it seems like the mother is just some random woman dating a completely different guy. I definitely didn't get the idea that they were ever head over heels in love with each other etc. etc. and it just didn't work out for one reason or another.

That's just my impression. It could be totally wrong.
But that could be another distraction for him as well.

he has a kid already? from Cuba or since coming over?

The media has been short on details but he posts him on his instagram. The mother's IG (which I can't find right now but will for you if you just want to be nosey and snoop) makes me believe she's from here andy to someone he had in Cuba. His son also can't be any older than 2 which would means it's from coming over.


[instagram]https://instagram.com/p/4Q_uKeDYXy/[/instagram]
[instagram]https://instagram.com/p/2Cfwx_DYRO/[/instagram]

[Neddy]

Speaking of a teenager….anybody have the details on Yasiel's son?

I followed the instagram trail one day and it seems like the mother is just some random woman dating a completely different guy. I definitely didn't get the idea that they were ever head over heels in love with each other etc. etc. and it just didn't work out for one reason or another.

That's just my impression. It could be totally wrong.
But that could be another distraction for him as well.

he has a kid already? from Cuba or since coming over?

The media has been short on details but he posts him on his instagram. The mother's IG (which I can't find right now but will for you if you just want to be nosey and snoop) makes me believe she's from here andy to someone he had in Cuba. His son also can't be any older than 2 which would means it's from coming over.


[instagram]https://instagram.com/p/4Q_uKeDYXy/[/instagram]
[instagram]https://instagram.com/p/2Cfwx_DYRO/[/instagram]

oh god the kid is adorable... but not a fan of kids trying to raise kids... I see that too often in my little town. kids I have seen just out of school suddenly gets knocked up and I don't even see the dad, or if I do it doesn't last. some kids get hitched to make it legit then 3 years down the line they are divorced and now its the grandparents who takes care of the grandkids. at least one young man I have seen grow up who used to be so depressed and petrified of everything ( I knew his mother, she is once again, in rehab for meth ) but since the grandpa adopted him to be his own son, the kid has turned around after dozen years and now is playing baseball for the local high school, happy as any teen should be.

sorry for deviating from the topic, Im still on my vacation, came back from Vegas earlier this week but probably still recovering from my idiot friends' binge drinking.... but man my best friend's youngest kid had turned 21... he's gonna be a grandpa in relatively short years since his older daughter is gonna be 23 and been living with her boyfriend for the last 4 years or so... and other than the fact that i had kids late for going through all my schooling, I feel like Im getting ready to be a grandparent (at leat to my friend's kid's kids) myself... haha.

[Neddy]

...

... and one more thing, why not send him down to the minors for a couple of weeks to work on his swing? seems much more productive and clearer message in terms of discipline than just limiting his at bats away. is it in his contract that he cannot be send down unless he agrees like Ryu had?

I'd love to send him down to the minors since that would get him regular work and be the best way to send a clear message to him, but I get the sense that that is not an option beyond rehabbing from an injury. I'm not sure if it's in his contract or if it has to do with his age and service time.

I know international signees are regulated by different customized set of rules than the normally drafted players but I believe they still have options to be send down unless that language is specifically written in the contract. Puig hasn't been up and down enough that I would think he still has options and not be placed on wavers to be send down.... but not sure what the specific parameter of his contract is.

[Ranma]

I know international signees are regulated by different customized set of rules than the normally drafted players but I believe they still have options to be send down unless that language is specifically written in the contract. Puig hasn't been up and down enough that I would think he still has options and not be placed on wavers to be send down.... but not sure what the specific parameter of his contract is.

You're right, Neddy.

Looks like I was wrong again--like it's a big surprise--as I just got word from Jon Weisman that Yasiel still has options on him to be sent down to the minors. I disagree with Jon and Molly Knight with regard to whether he needs to be sent down, but I think this should at least be an option for consideration if he continues to struggle in order to get regular work in. However, both Jon and Molly are Dodgers insiders, so their opinions obviously have more weight than mine.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/molly_knight/status/629748405518991361[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/jonweisman/status/629748930796896256[/tweet]

[Neddy]

He's still getting to play even when his performance doesn't warrant it albeit less.

Joc has been pityful in the box for the last 50 games or so...although his glove alone merits him to play everyday. and Carl has no business neither in the box swing the bat nor on the field with his glove making circus plays out of routine flyballs.

I get that he has been a distraction. then pull him out of the playoff roster for the divisional series. no clearer message than sending him home for the playoffs, no? but who gives us the better chance to win? Carl in the LF or Ethier in the LF and Puig in the RF? If we must take at bats away from Puig, I really hope it is SVS who gets the nod and not Carl the has been Crawford.

[Neddy]

I know international signees are regulated by different customized set of rules than the normally drafted players but I believe they still have options to be send down unless that language is specifically written in the contract. Puig hasn't been up and down enough that I would think he still has options and not be placed on wavers to be send down.... but not sure what the specific parameter of his contract is.

You're right, Neddy.

Looks like I was wrong again--like it's a big surprise--as I just got word from Jon Weisman that Yasiel still has options on him to be sent down to the minors. I disagree with Jon and Molly Knight with regard to whether he needs to be sent down, but I think this should at least be an option for consideration if he continues to struggle in order to get regular work in. However, both Jon and Molly are Dodgers insiders, so their opinions obviously have more weight than mine.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/molly_knight/status/629748405518991361[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/jonweisman/status/629748930796896256[/tweet]

thanks for taking time to verify the info, at least now we know for sure he can be sent down if needed.

[Ranma]

Joc has been pityful in the box for the last 50 games or so...although his glove alone merits him to play everyday. and Carl has no business neither in the box swing the bat nor on the field with his glove making circus plays out of routine flyballs.

I get that he has been a distraction. then pull him out of the playoff roster for the divisional series. no clearer message than sending him home for the playoffs, no? but who gives us the better chance to win? Carl in the LF or Ethier in the LF and Puig in the RF? If we must take at bats away from Puig, I really hope it is SVS who gets the nod and not Carl the has been Crawford.

I was hoping a stint in the minors would wake him up so that he can be a contributing member for the playoffs. Mattingly sat him down in the eliminating game against the Cards in the previous postseason to send a message to him, which may have prompted Yasiel to be more open towards changing his batting stance and approach. Personally, I'd rather have him in the minors working on his swing to get more regular work in solidifying his fundamentals, but I can see the Dodgers preferring to have him work with McGwire more closely and facing more advanced major league pitching instead of picking up bad habits by feasting off minor league pitchers.

Van Slyke is also my preferred choice to get the lion's share of Puig's playing time during his adjustment period, but Crawford does need to work his way back from injury. For now, both Pederson and Ethier deserve regular playing time in the outfield, but I'm growing increasingly concerned with Joc's struggles as well, but like you said, his glove offsets that and I'm willing to be more patient with J. Pederson because of his overall approach to the game. Mattingly recently went on record as still having faith in him and I'm fine with him working through the rookie wall.

[Quake Griffin]

Apparently Donnie has said that Crawford will starts once a series from here on out.

great.

[Quake Griffin]

1st at bat against Cole for Puig…good AB.

draws the count full.
hits a rope directly at Polanco.

[Quake Griffin]

Didn't like Jim Johnson coming out for a second inning.
Didn't like Johnson staying in after the 4 pitch walk.

whatever.
we had our chances in that game.