Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

[Saberestar]

Tucker should not be starting on a team contending for a playoff spot unless he's surrounded by all stars. Just my 2 cents.

I agree with that...but we don't have better options right now. Hopefully Warren and other players make a big step next season and Tucker goes to the bench and plays only around 20 mpg.

[saintEscaton]

So, does anyone here think PJ could start for us at the 4? I ask for obvious reasons - it would give us the flexibility to lose Keef for a bench player a couple firsts and start PJ in his place. PJ is shorter than Draymond Green, but is otherwise a similar player (not as good a passer), so we could play similarly to the way Golden State does... if PJ can start at the 4.

Bled/[TBD]/Price
Knight/Goodwin/Booker
Warren/Weems
Tucker/Teletovic/Leuer
Chandler/Len/[TBD]

Small team, but lots of shooting. Thoughts?

"lots of shooting"? Where? That backourt isn't exactly the Splash Bros and none of ours bigs can be playmakers /ballhandlers who can execute the high post entry pass into the paint.(thats a huge reason why the Dubs are so successful). We don'thave the interchangeable personnel and we don't run intricate playsets that incorporate the weave, double elbow elevator screens, half-court ball reversals,pistol handoffs and Warren is our only wing who can be a threat as a backdoor cutter through the baseline. The Dub's offensive system is basically the perfect marriage of up-temp SSOL and the Spurs's motion weak,strong,loop offense that de-emphasizes the traditional pick n rolls and accomodates playing an athletic wing as a undersized 4
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY6_bHropV8[/youtube]

[Jdiddy701]

NBA schedule releasing tomorrow?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Sunsdeuce]

So we are going to be the second worst team in the western conference.

http://arizonasports.com/2015/08/10/espn-writer-phoenix-suns-have-second-worst-roster-construction-in-western-conference/

A few points I agree with about this.
1)

The way Doolittle sees it, the Suns have zero elite players, zero superstars and zero upper-tier starters. What they have is three starters, four second-unit players and three deep reserves.

But But But....he is right, damn it. Nothing else I can say about that.

2)

Two seasons ago, the Suns performed at a level greater than the sum of their parts. Last season, the opposite was true. This season, they need Jeff Hornacek to coax a repeat of his 2013-14 performance, as Phoenix’s roster doesn’t look as strong on paper as it did at this time a year ago.

Again I have to agree. Some people want to try and say the traded players didnt have enough time to gel. I am a firm believer of "you are what your record says you are".

My last point on this is I think Ryan Mcd is gambing on something no one should ever bet on. That is, trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice. Ryan is trying to be successful again with a two PG, unfortunately this is not going to work and he is going to look bad The team two years ago was "LED" by goran who had a great connection with the players around him AND he played outstanding while Bledsoe was hurt. And the players filled roles that worked (basically a lightning in a bottle situation). All those players are gone. Talk to any (knowledgable) fan (other than suns fans) and they will agree the 2 PG system is not a recipe for long term success. I may be wrong and Ryan strikes lightning twice but there is absolutely nothing about this situation and system I would bet on. I love this team and want it to succeed, I just dont think this a route that should be taken.

[saintEscaton]

So we are going to be the second worst team in the western conference.

http://arizonasports.com/2015/08/10/espn-writer-phoenix-suns-have-second-worst-roster-construction-in-western-conference/

A few points I agree with about this.
1)

The way Doolittle sees it, the Suns have zero elite players, zero superstars and zero upper-tier starters. What they have is three starters, four second-unit players and three deep reserves.

But But But....he is right, damn it. Nothing else I can say about that.

2)

Two seasons ago, the Suns performed at a level greater than the sum of their parts. Last season, the opposite was true. This season, they need Jeff Hornacek to coax a repeat of his 2013-14 performance, as Phoenix’s roster doesn’t look as strong on paper as it did at this time a year ago.

Again I have to agree. Some people want to try and say the traded players didnt have enough time to gel. I am a firm believer of "you are what your record says you are".

My last point on this is I think Ryan Mcd is gambing on something no one should ever bet on. That is, trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice. Ryan is trying to be successful again with a two PG, unfortunately this is not going to work and he is going to look bad The team two years ago was "LED" by goran who had a great connection with the players around him AND he played outstanding while Bledsoe was hurt. And the players filled roles that worked (basically a lightning in a bottle situation). All those players are gone. Talk to any (knowledgable) fan (other than suns fans) and they will agree the 2 PG system is not a recipe for long term success. I may be wrong and Ryan strikes lightning twice but there is absolutely nothing I would bet on it. I love this team and want it to succeed, I just dont think this a route that should be taken.

I don't know about bottom 2. Maybe if Kieff gets dealt and we can't replace him with a starting calibre PF and are forced to roll out with Mirza. But its definitely possible we drop out of contention for the eight seed entirely sometime in the season and finish below the middle of the pack. This offense might look a little less ugly but trust me with Horny at the helms it gunna be another year of low IQ improvisational BBall with no structure or direction. I don't understand this FO's unyielding insistence on trying to rebuild by acquiring a revolving door of dime a dozen guards when they can't be franchise building blocks. I guess we've always been blessed with a long tradition of floor generals and elite PGs but its about time we seriously divert our effort to assembling a frontcourt.

[TeamTragic]

So we are going to be the second worst team in the western conference.

http://arizonasports.com/2015/08/10/espn-writer-phoenix-suns-have-second-worst-roster-construction-in-western-conference/

A few points I agree with about this.
1)

The way Doolittle sees it, the Suns have zero elite players, zero superstars and zero upper-tier starters. What they have is three starters, four second-unit players and three deep reserves.

But But But....he is right, damn it. Nothing else I can say about that.

2)

Two seasons ago, the Suns performed at a level greater than the sum of their parts. Last season, the opposite was true. This season, they need Jeff Hornacek to coax a repeat of his 2013-14 performance, as Phoenix’s roster doesn’t look as strong on paper as it did at this time a year ago.

Again I have to agree. Some people want to try and say the traded players didnt have enough time to gel. I am a firm believer of "you are what your record says you are".

My last point on this is I think Ryan Mcd is gambing on something no one should ever bet on. That is, trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice. Ryan is trying to be successful again with a two PG, unfortunately this is not going to work and he is going to look bad The team two years ago was "LED" by goran who had a great connection with the players around him AND he played outstanding while Bledsoe was hurt. And the players filled roles that worked (basically a lightning in a bottle situation). All those players are gone. Talk to any (knowledgable) fan (other than suns fans) and they will agree the 2 PG system is not a recipe for long term success. I may be wrong and Ryan strikes lightning twice but there is absolutely nothing about this situation and system I would bet on it. I love this team and want it to succeed, I just dont think this a route that should be taken.

What if we are stealth tanking? Read between the lines

[bwgood77]

Suns SG Archie Goodwin on the rumors Markieff Morris wants out of Phoenix

https://m.soundcloud.com/siriusxmnba/suns-sg-archie-goodwin-on-the-rumors-markieff-morris-wants-out-of-phoenix

Edit: That link doesn't work for me...anyone have a link to heard exactly what he said?

Says he can't speak much on that situation, but that Markieff is a great guy, one of our favorites guys to be around, is a really positive guy, always a team first guy and that he loves both twins and he doesn't know what's going to happen, but he enjoys being around him and hopes the best for Markieff, even if it's with another team. Same for Marcus (just on that last part).

[bwgood77]

So, does anyone here think PJ could start for us at the 4? I ask for obvious reasons - it would give us the flexibility to lose Keef for a bench player a couple firsts and start PJ in his place. PJ is shorter than Draymond Green, but is otherwise a similar player (not as good a passer), so we could play similarly to the way Golden State does... if PJ can start at the 4.

Bled/[TBD]/Price
Knight/Goodwin/Booker
Warren/Weems
Tucker/Teletovic/Leuer
Chandler/Len/[TBD]

Small team, but lots of shooting. Thoughts?

Against some teams and lineups, sure. GS with Draymond at the 4, yes.

[Gorilla Warfare]

Honestly if you don't think Boozer can contribute to an NBA team you are just a hater. Personally I am not a fan of Boozer, but he still averaged 12 pts. and 7 rebounds in 21 min. a game last season (Kieff averaged 15 pts. and 6 rebounds in 32 min. a game). While yes I agree his prime has come and gone I think he can still be effective on a team.

[bwgood77]

I don't know about bottom 2. Maybe if Kieff gets dealt and we can't replace him with a starting calibre PF and are forced to roll out with Mirza. But its definitely possible we drop out of contention for the eight seed entirely sometime in the season and finish below the middle of the pack. This offense might look a little less ugly but trust me with Horny at the helms it gunna be another year of low IQ improvisational BBall with no structure or direction. I don't understand this FO's unyielding insistence on trying to rebuild by acquiring a revolving door of dime a dozen guards when they can't be franchise building blocks. I guess we've always been blessed with a long tradition of floor generals and elite PGs but its about time we seriously divert our effort to assembling a frontcourt.

I think they tried to assemble a quality frontcourt this summer, with nice center depth. But just missed.

[NTB]

Our bench is not weak at all.

[lilfishi22]

Tucker should not be starting on a team contending for a playoff spot unless he's surrounded by all stars. Just my 2 cents.

lol you start who you can when you don't have a choice

[lilfishi22]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/238987/Agent-Tristan-Thompson-Signing-One-Year-Qualifying-Offer-Will-Be-Last-Season-With-Cavs

So glad we didn't waste our time dealing with Rich Paul again.

[Saberestar]

Suns guard Archie Goodwin went on Sirius XM NBA Radio on Monday and talked about what Markieff Morris means to him and the team.

“I can’t too much speak on that situation (trade request), but I can say the last couple years that Markieff is a great guy,” Goodwin said. “One of my favorite guys to be around. He’s a really positive guy to me and for everybody else, always a team-first guy.

“I love Markieff and Marcus. Hopefully he stays with us. I don’t know what will happen with that situation which is why I can’t speak on it, but I enjoy being around them and wish him the best whether he is with us or with another team, same with Marcus.”

http://arizonasports.com/2015/08/10/archie-goodwin-says-markieff-morris-is-positive-guy-to-me-and-everybody-else/

[Frank Lee]

So we are going to be the second worst team in the western conference.

http://arizonasports.com/2015/08/10/espn-writer-phoenix-suns-have-second-worst-roster-construction-in-western-conference/

A few points I agree with about this.
1)

The way Doolittle sees it, the Suns have zero elite players, zero superstars and zero upper-tier starters. What they have is three starters, four second-unit players and three deep reserves.

But But But....he is right, damn it. Nothing else I can say about that.

2)

Two seasons ago, the Suns performed at a level greater than the sum of their parts. Last season, the opposite was true. This season, they need Jeff Hornacek to coax a repeat of his 2013-14 performance, as Phoenix’s roster doesn’t look as strong on paper as it did at this time a year ago.

Again I have to agree. Some people want to try and say the traded players didnt have enough time to gel. I am a firm believer of "you are what your record says you are".

My last point on this is I think Ryan Mcd is gambing on something no one should ever bet on. That is, trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice. Ryan is trying to be successful again with a two PG, unfortunately this is not going to work and he is going to look bad The team two years ago was "LED" by goran who had a great connection with the players around him AND he played outstanding while Bledsoe was hurt. And the players filled roles that worked (basically a lightning in a bottle situation). All those players are gone. Talk to any (knowledgable) fan (other than suns fans) and they will agree the 2 PG system is not a recipe for long term success. I may be wrong and Ryan strikes lightning twice but there is absolutely nothing about this situation and system I would bet on. I love this team and want it to succeed, I just dont think this a route that should be taken.

Yes, he is gambling. Anyone that claims there is a hidden blueprint or master plan only needs to look east to his messiah Ainge. McDuh takes one on the chin, then throws two backpedaling jabs and claims he's up on the scorecard

Open your eyes, from a dysfunctional line up to a dysfunctional locker room, to a flippant front office who have been crossed off the xmas card list from about 10 former players. The past yr was a bag of dogs**t, on fire, on our doorstep....and its still smoldering.

[NaturalBuns]

So we are going to be the second worst team in the western conference.

http://arizonasports.com/2015/08/10/espn-writer-phoenix-suns-have-second-worst-roster-construction-in-western-conference/

A few points I agree with about this.
1)

The way Doolittle sees it, the Suns have zero elite players, zero superstars and zero upper-tier starters. What they have is three starters, four second-unit players and three deep reserves.

But But But....he is right, damn it. Nothing else I can say about that.

2)

Two seasons ago, the Suns performed at a level greater than the sum of their parts. Last season, the opposite was true. This season, they need Jeff Hornacek to coax a repeat of his 2013-14 performance, as Phoenix’s roster doesn’t look as strong on paper as it did at this time a year ago.

Again I have to agree. Some people want to try and say the traded players didnt have enough time to gel. I am a firm believer of "you are what your record says you are".

My last point on this is I think Ryan Mcd is gambing on something no one should ever bet on. That is, trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice. Ryan is trying to be successful again with a two PG, unfortunately this is not going to work and he is going to look bad The team two years ago was "LED" by goran who had a great connection with the players around him AND he played outstanding while Bledsoe was hurt. And the players filled roles that worked (basically a lightning in a bottle situation). All those players are gone. Talk to any (knowledgable) fan (other than suns fans) and they will agree the 2 PG system is not a recipe for long term success. I may be wrong and Ryan strikes lightning twice but there is absolutely nothing about this situation and system I would bet on. I love this team and want it to succeed, I just dont think this a route that should be taken.

If Len takes another leap like last year Suns prob have the best center duo. As well as PG duo.

It's the stuff in between that's average.
Almost every night Suns will have a advantage as PG and C. Consistently having a skilled player.

Def not bottom 2 worthy unless injury plagued. I'm thinking 9th seed tbh.

Lakers
Jazz
Minnesota
Blazers
Nuggets

Lakers - Kobe not playing 82 games. Lou will at PG

Jazz- Dante out for year
Wolves- maybe take that giant leap doubt it

Blazers- like when the suns lost Amare it went downhill same with Blazers plus they lost Mathews and Batum and Lopez no way

Nuggets - rebuild

[Frank Lee]

CheezusChrist.... two subpar PGs playing at the same time do not give us an advantage at PG.

[Frank Lee]

.......
What if we are stealth tanking? Read between the lines

Hahaha.... more like we will out-mediocre the rest of the conference.

[bwgood77]

Tucker should not be starting on a team contending for a playoff spot unless he's surrounded by all stars. Just my 2 cents.

lol you start who you can when you don't have a choice

There are probably worse starters on playoff contending teams too.

[bwgood77]

CheezusChrist.... two subpar PGs playing at the same time do not give us an advantage at PG.

I think he meant that we will have one on the court at all times, as in a starter and backup. I don't know that we would rank the highest, as having guys like Paul or Westbrook alone is better than having good playoff depth. They are not subpar either. Brandon Knight was a near all star and Bledsoe is fairly solid. I think they are ranked slightly above average, or par, in most lists.

I'm surprised you didn't mention top centers, because there are a ton of better centers than ours, but the depth for us there is nice, just like our point guards.