State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15)

[NG15]

Decent read on the team moving forward. http://www.onpointbasketball.com/viva-la-canada-who-will-be-making-the-trip-to-mexico/

Still surprised that English/Scrubb got the nod over guys like Cadougan/Mullings, heck even Rautins with his FIBA experience wouldn't be a bad option.

[mojo13]

Andy Rautins just signed with Gaziantep Basketbol, also known as Royal Halı Gaziantep yesterday. Turkish top league.
I am assuming he was left out of the SMNT as he was without a contract/insurance. Would have been nice to have him, but not the end of the world.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Instead of focusing on the potential 10-12th men on the team, what do people see the starting line-up looking like?

It seems like most people have agreed that CoJo-Stauskas-Wiggins-Nicholson-Olynyk is going to be the best bet.

What are the chances Triano sticks with the Bennett/Nicholson front court or sticks a veteran like English/Doornekamp in the starting lineup over Stauskas? I suppose there is also an outside chance Sacre starts if they want more of a traditional centre.

Olynyk/Nicholson isn't an ideal defensive starting front court, but it is mitigated by the FIBA competition. Nicholson/Bennett wasn't traditional and they fared well at the Pan-Am's. Have to love the potential offensive capabilities of that starting 5. There will be absolutely no problems in terms of spacing and you have two bigs who can pick and pop. Should be hell for opposing defenses on PNR coverage.

[Jstock12]

My favorite team has just signed Hanlan. Could any of you guys provide me with some feedback on him on whether he's capable of playing some backup PG minutes in Euroleague? His summer league stats are pretty terrible. Judging from those, he won't be more than a 3rd string PG for us.

On Hanlan he is a tough read for me. However, I wouldn't read too much into his summer league performance.
He was undoubtedly one of the better scorers in the NCAA last year. He played on a really bad Boston College team in a very strong conference and was asked to carry the offensive load as a score first, ball dominate guard and did a great job with it. Despite being the go-to guy and getting much of the attention from defenses he was quite efficient.

This issue with the NBA is he is a little undersized as a SG at 6'3. The question has become for the Utah Jazz is can he be a more traditional pass first PG in the NBA. He seemed to struggle in summer league with a much reduced role and being asked to be more of a traditional PG.

If you need a 6'3 scoring guard, I think you will be pleased. He has a good handle, is quick, can get to the rim and has a good outside shot. If you need a pass first PG I am not sure he is there yet - at least not at an NBA level yet.

A few others here probably have a better take on Hanlan that me...

Thanks man.

[Undefeated]

Offense won't be a problem for this team. It's going to be on the defensive end seeing how they got shredded by Brazil's Continuity PnR attack. Nicholson was the biggest culprit of that. That said I'd like to see the combo of Bennett/Olynyk together offensively. Perfect combination of an inside-outside combo more so than Nicholson/Olynyk.

[frumble]

I don't think Doornekamp has much chance of starting. I can see English maybe starting, but I expect starting 5 to be:
Joseph
Stauskas
Wiggins
Nicholson
Olynyk

That being said, I thought Powell and Olynyk played well together last summer on the Euro tour, so I wouldn't mind seeing that front-court combination being tried again.

And of course Nicholson and Bennett just played together at PanAms.

With 8 round robin games in 9 days (bad luck to have an off day on the first day), and the chance of a couple blow outs, there should be some playing time for everybody. But in close games I would not be surprised to see a tight 8 man rotation (or even 7).

At this point I figure Joseph, Wiggins, and Olynyk will be three of those guys, but I don't know who the others will be.

I can see any two of Bennett, Powell, Nicholson, or Sacre emerging to join Olynyk as the three bigs who get the bulk of the time in close games.

Of the guards/wings, it may depend on who of Stauskas, Heslip, and English is shooting well.

In 2013 Joseph led the team with about 32 MPG, Rautins had 30, TT had 27, Doornekamp 22, and Nicholson 20

This year, I think Joseph and Wiggins will be leaders, with about 30 to 32. Maybe Olynyk also around 30 provided he stays out of foul trouble. I think the rest is pretty open.

[mojo13]

Yep...I think we were fairly awful defending at the PanAms. Brazil certainly had their way with us - but it sounds like the bigman from Brazil (Heittsheimeir sp?) who tore us apart isn't playing. Hopefully Cojo and Wiggins are a big upgrade.

KO and Sacre can co-exist together on the floor. I think KO is at his best as an attacking/playmaking forward from the outside in. Guys got to respect his range and he can beat most FIBA big men off the dribble and get to the paint to either finish or dish.

Outside of CoJo, Wiggins and KO starting we can go in many directions. Should be fun. 12 days to the Tuto Marchand Continental Cup!

[Alfred]

Having Stauskas, Olynyk and Nicholson in the starting lineup seems like it could be a disaster defensively.

[PoundTown]

Having Stauskas, Olynyk and Nicholson in the starting lineup seems like it could be a disaster defensively.

I would bring in Joel Anthony for the missing Thompson and start him beside Olynyk for defensive purposes.

[mojo13]

Having Stauskas, Olynyk and Nicholson in the starting lineup seems like it could be a disaster defensively.

Yes it does. However we are not dealing with NBA athletes here so maybe that makes Olynyk, Stauskas and Nicholson a little more serviceable on D. KO's problem is not necessarily size, but being a little too slow to guard NBA bigs. He ends up reaching and grabbing to compensate and fouling allot. Especially when he is playing PF for the Celtics. Stauskas seemed just too weak to guard big manly wings. He supposedly worked hard in the weightroom this summer and again we are dealing with smaller, less athletic competition.
Anyways Wiggins is going to guard the better wing player and Cojo the better guard - so Stauskas/Heslip can be hidden somewhat.

For more D, you can bring Sacre in and slide KO to PF (or the bench). Or move Doornekamp into the starting line up (ugh I feel dirty just typing that) and Wiggins to the 2.

[slothrop8]

I'd like to see Joseph/Stauskas/Wiggins/Bennett/Olynyk as the starters. Bennett was the best overall player on the team at the Pan Ams - aside from the occasional crazy brilliance of Murray. If Bennett's playing well in camp - I give him the nod

[frumble]

I'd like to see Joseph/Stauskas/Wiggins/Bennett/Olynyk as the starters. Bennett was the best overall player on the team at the Pan Ams - aside from the occasional crazy brilliance of Murray. If Bennett's playing well in camp - I give him the nod

I agree, and I think that applies to the SG spot as well.

I think Joseph, Wiggins, and Olynyk have starting spots almost guaranteed, and the other two are up for grabs.

Andy Rautins just signed with Gaziantep Basketbol, also known as Royal Halı Gaziantep yesterday. Turkish top league.
I am assuming he was left out of the SMNT as he was without a contract/insurance. Would have been nice to have him, but not the end of the world.

If there was mutual interest I am sure he could be added now.

Whether he participates this summer or not, I hope he is part of the program going forward. (with qualifying for Worlds and Olympics being largely restricted to non-NBA and non-NCAA guys after this summer).

[Pooh_Jeter]

At the last Fiba America's tourney (2013 i believe), Anthony was a difference maker for Canada defensively. Did a great job protecting the rim and rebounding. TT has made some strides in terms of protecting the basket, but in 2013 he was purely an energy guy who could gobble up rebounds and finish around the basket. He may still be a better defensive option than Sacre at this point, but he really has no future with the team IMO. Olynyk, Powell, and Nicholson all provide good offensive tools so you can live with some defensive miscues here and there. Sacre isn't exactly Dwight Howard, but he knows his role and I think he will actually provide some useful minutes.

Canada really has no rim protection, but if the guards can hold their own navigating screens the defense should be passable. When Canada made their comeback against Brazil it was by going small and hounding the ball carrier. Guys like English, Doornekamp and Heslip won't be seeing time together and being primary perimeter defenders. Wiggins and Joseph are really great defenders and while Stauskas isn't known for his defense, he is at least an upgrade on Heslip and he is certainly quicker than Doornekamp.

[Undefeated]

I actually thought the key to their second half run against Brazil was that they had Ejim/Bennett switching against the Continuity PnR negating any seams they previously had with Nicholson dropping back and forcing the corner guys into rotation that caused breakdowns to their defense. That's why I was kind of hoping TT would be available because he showed in the Finals that he could step out on the perimeter, crouch into a low and wide defensive stance and mirror the ball-handler's every movement even against a guy like Steph Curry. A line-up with CoJo-Wiggins-Ejim-Bennett-TT would be really tough to score against although they would be bereft of any spacing offensively I think that line-up is similar to the Warriors' switching line-up of Livingston-Klay-Holiday-Draymond-Speights.

[PoundTown]

Decent read on the team moving forward. http://www.onpointbasketball.com/viva-la-canada-who-will-be-making-the-trip-to-mexico/

Still surprised that English/Scrubb got the nod over guys like Cadougan/Mullings, heck even Rautins with his FIBA experience wouldn't be a bad option.

Last time the national team played when they tried to qualify for the World Championships Rauntins was easily the best non-NBA player on that roster. He is kind of a FIBA version 3 and D player, not elite D but solid and just had a good overall effect on the team. Great IQ of the game. I'd take him any day over English. Sad to see him not on the roster.

[PoundTown]

At the last Fiba America's tourney (2013 i believe), Anthony was a difference maker for Canada defensively. Did a great job protecting the rim and rebounding. TT has made some strides in terms of protecting the basket, but in 2013 he was purely an energy guy who could gobble up rebounds and finish around the basket. He may still be a better defensive option than Sacre at this point, but he really has no future with the team IMO. Olynyk, Powell, and Nicholson all provide good offensive tools so you can live with some defensive miscues here and there. Sacre isn't exactly Dwight Howard, but he knows his role and I think he will actually provide some useful minutes.

Canada really has no rim protection, but if the guards can hold their own navigating screens the defense should be passable. When Canada made their comeback against Brazil it was by going small and hounding the ball carrier. Guys like English, Doornekamp and Heslip won't be seeing time together and being primary perimeter defenders. Wiggins and Joseph are really great defenders and while Stauskas isn't known for his defense, he is at least an upgrade on Heslip and he is certainly quicker than Doornekamp.

I agree with your point on Stauskas, his first year at Michigan he was bad and got a lot better as a sophomore. I saw some strides from his sophomore year to his rookie year in how he moved laterally and was better instinctually as well. Still not great in these regards, but he isn't pathetic and he is on an upward trajectory. Helps he is playing lesser athletes than used to. Knows its a weakness and has worked on it hard because the good teams made it a point to attack him in his freshman year at Michigan and at times a little bit this year, but most rookies do and he competed the best he could.

I think Anthony should be on the team too, leadership, experience and has a ring. Also, makes sense given Thompson won't be able to make it. I don't see why you don't think Thompson has a future with our team. In my opinion he is our most non-disposable big man, unless Bennett or Lyles surpass him. He is much better defensively than he was with us last time around and he is the only high level rebounder the country has. If we want to get past just qualifying for the tournaments were going to need to rebound against alot of these big countries. Spain, France, Brazil, Lithuania all have size with talent.

[Pooh_Jeter]

At the last Fiba America's tourney (2013 i believe), Anthony was a difference maker for Canada defensively. Did a great job protecting the rim and rebounding. TT has made some strides in terms of protecting the basket, but in 2013 he was purely an energy guy who could gobble up rebounds and finish around the basket. He may still be a better defensive option than Sacre at this point, but he really has no future with the team IMO. Olynyk, Powell, and Nicholson all provide good offensive tools so you can live with some defensive miscues here and there. Sacre isn't exactly Dwight Howard, but he knows his role and I think he will actually provide some useful minutes.

Canada really has no rim protection, but if the guards can hold their own navigating screens the defense should be passable. When Canada made their comeback against Brazil it was by going small and hounding the ball carrier. Guys like English, Doornekamp and Heslip won't be seeing time together and being primary perimeter defenders. Wiggins and Joseph are really great defenders and while Stauskas isn't known for his defense, he is at least an upgrade on Heslip and he is certainly quicker than Doornekamp.

I agree with your point on Stauskas, his first year at Michigan he was bad and got a lot better as a sophomore. I saw some strides from his sophomore year to his rookie year in how he moved laterally and was better instinctually as well. Still not great in these regards, but he isn't pathetic and he is on an upward trajectory. Helps he is playing lesser athletes than used to. Knows its a weakness and has worked on it hard because the good teams made it a point to attack him in his freshman year at Michigan and at times a little bit this year, but most rookies do and he competed the best he could.

I think Anthony should be on the team too, leadership, experience and has a ring. Also, makes sense given Thompson won't be able to make it. I don't see why you don't think Thompson has a future with our team. In my opinion he is our most non-disposable big man, unless Bennett or Lyles surpass him. He is much better defensively than he was with us last time around and he is the only high level rebounder the country has. If we want to get past just qualifying for the tournaments were going to need to rebound against alot of these big countries. Spain, France, Brazil, Lithuania all have size with talent.

I think Anthony doesn't have a future with Team Canada, not TT. I completely agree that he has shown himself a much improved defensive player and his offensive rebounding in particular will be a key advantage for Team Canada in the future.

[frumble]

At the last Fiba America's tourney (2013 i believe), Anthony was a difference maker for Canada defensively. Did a great job protecting the rim and rebounding. TT has made some strides in terms of protecting the basket, but in 2013 he was purely an energy guy who could gobble up rebounds and finish around the basket.

Last time the national team played when they tried to qualify for the World Championships Rauntins was easily the best non-NBA player on that roster. He is kind of a FIBA version 3 and D player, not elite D but solid and just had a good overall effect on the team. Great IQ of the game. I'd take him any day over English. Sad to see him not on the roster.

I remember the 2013 qualifying tournament quite differently.

I don't recall Anthony being a difference maker. He was the 5th big (Thompson, Doornekamp, Nicholson and Kendall were ahead of him in the big man rotation) and only played about 14 MPG. During that limited time. he had 6.8 rebounds per 30 minutes. Not bad, but well behind Thompson (11.3) and just behind Kendall (7.3). I really don't remember distinguishing himself at all.

Re Rautins, he shot very poorly from 3 that tournament. 30%. His 3 pt shooting was especially poor during the last 3 games. Canada was 3-1 heading into those games (with Brz result having been dropped). IIRC, a win over either Ven, DR, or Arg would have gotten us into the playoffs, but we lost by 5, 7, and 6 in those games.

In those three close losses, Rautins logged 101 minutes, but managed only 19 pts. He shot 8/28 in those games. From 3 he was 3/21 (14%). He was 2/9 against Ven, 0/5 against DR, and 1/7 against Arg. I don't recall him bringing anything else to the table either. He did not get to the line a single time in those three games (and only twice for the whole tournament). He was an outside shooter whose shots weren't falling.

I am not trying to rag on the guy - English has had games (and tournaments) like that too. Its just that I don't recall him being effective at the last qualifying tournament, and if you look at their long-term records (pro and FIBA), I don't think there is any evidence that Rautins is better than English. And at this point I trust Heslip's shooting over both of their's.

[jonny three time]

Frumble, I agree with you on Anthony, he's been done for a while now. Slightly undersized bangers who rely on athleticism usually don't age well, but in his day he was doing all the things pooh was talking about.

With Rautins, he played the second most minutes on the team after CoJo. More than either of Nicholson or TT. That's why he slumped late in the tournament. This isn't some tremendous athlete, he's primarily a shooter first. So when he plays 30 minutes a game in a 6 games in 7 nights type stretch, he's bound to lose his legs, and in turn, his shot. Don't forget what he did when still fresh in that tourney both with his shooting and passing, his PnR passing was particularly strong and helped TT contribute on the offensive end. It would be pretty idiotic to leave him off the team for struggling last time, when Team Canada brass and coaches are the reason he struggled by overplaying him. Playing 15-20 on this team certainly won't lead to him breaking down and his efficiency and per minute production should mirror what he's given in the past when not overplayed. If he's willing to show up now that he's signed a contract, but they pass on him for a declining chucker who couldn't hit his shots at the panams, and Trianos nephew who sucked during the final few games as well, it would be a mistake.

[frumble]

It would be pretty idiotic to leave him off the team for struggling last time, when Team Canada brass and coaches are the reason he struggled by overplaying him. Playing 15-20 on this team certainly won't lead to him breaking down and his efficiency and per minute production should mirror what he's given in the past when not overplayed. If he's willing to show up now that he's signed a contract, but they pass on him for a declining chucker who couldn't hit his shots at the panams, and Trianos nephew who sucked during the final few games as well, it would be a mistake.

I don't think they left him off because of his struggles in 13, and I don't think they should leave him off because of that.

I think he was probably left off b/c he didn't want to participate given his contract uncertainty.


Re the nepotism angle, I am not sure why Heslip gets so much flack. I think he has more than proven himself. Doornekamp is Smart's nephew, but nobody seems to bring that up. And of course Rautins was the son of the head coach for the vast majority of his appearances for the team.

Many pages ago in this thread I posted the career senior men's FIBA stats for Rautins, English and Heslip in meaningful tournaments (I counted qualifiers and 2010 Worlds, but not Tuto Marchand games or friendlies). I recall that Heslip had the best numbers (albeit in a smaller sample), and English and Rautins were roughly the same. I will try and dig up the data and re-post.