Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

[RaisingArizona]

Why do my former favorite players transform into giant morons? First Goran, now Markieff.

[lilfishi22]

Our front office have always been great at rolling out the red carpet and putting on a great show to FA's or RFA's. But that doesn't speak to how they treat players as assets rather than players once they are under contract. It's good to take emotion out of being a GM and being objective but the assets they are dealing with are people.

[Revived]

Why do my former favorite players transform into giant morons? First Goran, now Markieff.

You never liked Dragic even half as much as you did the Morris twins. You were riding the Morris you-know-what hard for several years especially the last year.

You argued all year long that their not idiots and morons and now it's flip flopping time? Lol.

Next time, please open your eyes and see what is actually going on.

These douchebags proved their douchebagness the moment they called out fans for not being loud enough after getting spanked by the Spurs at home in like 20 or 40 pt loss or something. It should have been clear to you then.

[Revived]

You have Bledsoe, Zoran & Goran Dragic, Marcus and Markieff Morris, and Gerald Green's agent that have said bad things about the Suns. Just not a good look for any free agents thinkin Phoenix.

Tyson Chandler doesn't read NBA news then or Brandon Knight.

Chandler wouldn't have got that deal anywhere else.

Same with Knight.

[AtheJ415]

Tyson Chandler doesn't read NBA news then or Brandon Knight.

Chandler wouldn't have got that deal anywhere else.

Same with Knight.

So wrong. So very, very wrong.

[batsmasher]

So wrong. So very, very wrong.

It's that time of the month again where everyone becomes a pessimistic bore. What do you expect?

[bwgood77]

Chandler wouldn't have got that deal anywhere else.

Same with Knight.

So wrong. So very, very wrong.

I don't necessarily think he is wrong, but even though that seems like an overpay based on the past, I think it was a smart move. I think our biggest plus right now is having guys locked into pretty long term deals before the cap hike and the VASTLY overpaid contracts. Does it look like a smart move to most right now? No. One or two and especially 3 years from now? I bet we are the team with the value contracts and max cap space every summer. Zach Lowe lined it out perfectly. Overpay guys now because they will be vastly overpaid every summer going forward.

[AtheJ415]

Same with Knight.

So wrong. So very, very wrong.

I don't necessarily think he is wrong, but even though that seems like an overpay based on the past, I think it was a smart move. I think our biggest plus right now is having guys locked into pretty long term deals before the cap hike and the VASTLY overpaid contracts. Does it look like a smart move to most right now? No. One or two and especially 3 years from now? I bet we are the team with the value contracts and max cap space every summer. Zach Lowe lined it out perfectly. Overpay guys now because they will be vastly overpaid every summer going forward.

I agree, but that's why I think he's very wrong about Knight. I think most teams, knowing the cap is going up, would pay a borderline all-star (even in the East) as young as Knight and with his leadership qualities what we gave him without blinking. Some may not if they already had a PG and/or didn't view him as a 2, but a player of his caliber at his age gets that contract every time in this environment imo. It's not as if the rising cap is a secret to the teams out there with cap space this past offseason.

[AtheJ415]

As far as Markieff goes, the worst thing we can do is move him just to move him. He's under contract for 4 years. We should seek someone young who we actually like in return. Maybe one of Houston's PFs, maybe Ryan Anderson, maybe somehow involve Chicago in a 3-way to get Portis. If we trade him for someone older than Mirza I just won't understand it. At that point I'd rather just get a draft pick back and trust McDonough to hit on it. Those who have mentioned Frye, Gasol, I just can't see how that ever helps us long-term or even medium-term (although some of those Frye moves involved other young pieces we would want).

[letsgosuns]

McDonough's style is the no one saw it coming type. I expect something like that is going to happen soon. I have no clue what they are going to do.

[bwgood77]

So wrong. So very, very wrong.

I don't necessarily think he is wrong, but even though that seems like an overpay based on the past, I think it was a smart move. I think our biggest plus right now is having guys locked into pretty long term deals before the cap hike and the VASTLY overpaid contracts. Does it look like a smart move to most right now? No. One or two and especially 3 years from now? I bet we are the team with the value contracts and max cap space every summer. Zach Lowe lined it out perfectly. Overpay guys now because they will be vastly overpaid every summer going forward.

I agree, but that's why I think he's very wrong about Knight. I think most teams, knowing the cap is going up, would pay a borderline all-star (even in the East) as young as Knight and with his leadership qualities what we gave him without blinking. Some may not if they already had a PG and/or didn't view him as a 2, but a player of his caliber at his age gets that contract every time in this environment imo. It's not as if the rising cap is a secret to the teams out there with cap space this past offseason.

I think it was you who said you worked for the Atlanta FO for some time, and I always think your opinions are pretty much spot on, so even though the Knight move is questionable (not signing him but the trade value given up), it allowed us to lock up a quality player on a contract that will seem like a bargain the last four years in the contract, unless McD was terribly wrong with scouting. I trust him with scouting based on draft picks and trades, so I'm fine with that.

The only qualms I have with McD right now is figuring out communication with trades, but that is only usually a factor that is short lived and I really don't think other players are thinking about that because they are focused on their own situations. And the twins is not an ordinary situation, and smart players probably realize that too...but I seriously doubt many players on other teams worrying about their playing time and their new teams are thinking about next offseason and the Suns. This is blown way out of proportion as far as attracting future free agents. I think the issue is the communication about traded players, but that is likely mostly a non issue if we didn't have twins.

[Qwigglez]

I don't understand how some of you say Brandon Knight is overpaid. If he took 2.5 more shots per game he'd have the same stats as Kyrie Irving except with more boards (and more turnovers, worst FG%). Anyway, I just think Knight gets a lot of unfair hate because of... well this video sums it up.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj1--j4fi4U[/youtube]

[Mr Puddles]

Reggie Jackson, a player two years older and with a less impressive track-record than Knight received 10 mil more this offseason. Brandon Knight was definitely signed at market value.

[batsmasher]

What Ryan does here is really going to tell us what type of GM he is. To date he has been the 'asset manager' who cares only about a contract and not a fit, with the hope that some time in the future he can upgrade that value into a superstar. This was the pseudo-rebuilding phase, where winning wasn't really the main goal and Ryan was more interested in growing his assets, which sort of lends itself to the high tempo "free for all" offense Horny runs.

But now we're sort of at a crossroads because we've established a core and taken away some of the flexibility to "play with assets" in the process. Why is it such a big deal? Because taking out all the peripherals, Kieff is probably a top 10 value contract in the NBA. Kieff's contract was a key cog to this team's flexibility. He could have been a stepping stone to securing the 'disgruntled superstar'. Instead, he's just a stone, a useless stone like his brother.

Ryan the 'asset manager' has a problem. He's already done the hard work signing Kieff to a super extension. That all goes to waste if he gives in to Kieff. Unfortunately though, Ryan's already stepped out of the pseudo-tanking phase and into the pseudo play-off phase because he thought he had a core. Team chemistry is now a serious issue in getting this team to the playoffs, and Kieff's threats of turning poisonous on the locker room at least hold some weight.

If I were him I'd ask WWMCD? What would Mark Cuban do? He'd tell Kieff to STFU and remind him that he is the EMPLOYEE. You're not going to turn up and play? Fine, you can be suspended without pay. You're gonna try and mess up the locker room? Go ahead, Tyson Chandler will be waiting for you.

McD needs to prove himself and validate his leadership of the franchise. Show Kieff that he too, can play dirty (without getting felony charges in the process). Make the Morrii look like immature fools. It won't be too hard based on the events of the last 6 months.

PS: If you didn't want to get traded without consent Marcus, there's this thing called a no trade clause. Maybe you and Kieff could have hired yourselves an agent as good as your lawyer and then you wouldn't even be in this situation.

[thamadkant]

Okay, so now that it is "official", hopefully everyone is on the same page regarding Kieff.


As others and myself has stated it was only a matter of time before
(a) Markieff let's the public and Suns know he wants out,

(b) he'll do it in a douche way that he'll make us hate him... I said that on this thread a couple of weeks back.

The Kieff fans were way too optimistic and weren't looking at the simple and most logical scenario after the Marcua trade.


Also one more person to go... And everyone will either be drafted or traded for by McD...

He is cleaning house.

[batsmasher]

Also one more person to go... And everyone will either be drafted or traded for by McD...

He is cleaning house.

This excites me, a lot.

Then we can officially blame him for everything.

[thamadkant]

You have Bledsoe, Zoran & Goran Dragic, Marcus and Markieff Morris, and Gerald Green's agent that have said bad things about the Suns. Just not a good look for any free agents thinkin Phoenix.

Nope, not buying it.

Gerald Green's agent wanted money for Gerald. Sure he could of been traded for picks earlier in the season, but McD shouldn't make decisions BASED on player needs as priority... Team needs come first. Suns were battling for 8th spot (sadly, not going to go into that again) and Green's offense can come handy.


Regarding Bledsoe... Rich Paul is a douche bag agent who thinks all his clients are max players.


Goran Dragic wanted to be treated like Steph Curry, he also wanted the max. McD and the FO publicly stated they will give him the max if he commits.... Instead publicly demands a trade a day before deadline. He wanted to be paid and to be the man... When McD and the coaching staff was trying a way to make Dragic, Bledsoe and Thomas work together, sacrifice some individualism for the team... Dragic wanted to be man.

Morris twins were signed at FAIR value considering they have huge gaps in their games. This is a business, you get paid millions of dollars to be able to cope with being traded when a situation that benefits the team arises. It's happened to players better than the Morris twins and it will happen to other players in the future... It's business.
The twins took it personally because they weren't told... Lol. Considering the situation where Suns were secretly trying to sign Chandler and make a run for Aldridge, as well as McD being very secretive in his transactions and they can come out of the left field... Marcus and Markieff are not MVPs or All stars to be "catered" for.... They are employees paid millions of dollars to be part of the process and the business.

McD... As far as I'm aware has gotten rid of players he didn't bring in.
Thomas and Plumlee were acquired to be shipped off for better assets and arguably McD got it done.

[Revived]

I don't understand how some of you say Brandon Knight is overpaid. If he took 2.5 more shots per game he'd have the same stats as Kyrie Irving except with more boards (and more turnovers, worst FG%). Anyway, I just think Knight gets a lot of unfair hate because of... well this video sums it up.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj1--j4fi4U[/youtube]

Calm down, so I post once in the past 10 pages of this thread that Knoght got more money from us than he would anywhere else and its "a lot of unfair hate"?

I haven't seen anyone else post anything bad about his contract recently. I haven't posted anything bad about his contract recently either.

As for most of the NBA fans (non Suns fans) thinking he's hella overpaid and that he sucks, it's because he has a lot of Javale McGee type moments. It's either stupid decisions or him getting ankles broken by Kyrie. There's a reason why the Bucks fans celebrated as if they just won the title when they traded Knight. Too bad for them their stuck with MCW instead now

[Mr Puddles]

I don't understand how some of you say Brandon Knight is overpaid. If he took 2.5 more shots per game he'd have the same stats as Kyrie Irving except with more boards (and more turnovers, worst FG%). Anyway, I just think Knight gets a lot of unfair hate because of... well this video sums it up.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj1--j4fi4U[/youtube]

Especially the backlash after that missed lay-up against the Nets was unwarranted in my opinion. Knight stealing the ball prevented a potential game winner by brooklyn. Sure he missed an open lay-up with the clock winding down and sprinting coast-to-coast in 3 seconds, but that steal was HUGE for his team - eventually allowing them to win the game in the next overtime.

[theSUNalsoRISES]

So does the request actually change anything?...I'm genuinely asking...I can only remember Kobe being overruled on he's request. Are we actually obligated to find a trade or is this just kief talking ****....