Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

[BobbieL]

Markieff has a nice game. Offensively. Mid range jumper is pretty solid. Good player. But, the distraction is too much - trade him.

[bwgood77]

Yea I wonder what the hell is wrong with these people. 76 years without a championship ring, 6 straight years now without even sniffing one playoff series and multiple players and agents of this team bad mouthing the team publicly in the last two years and Suns being a laughing stock among NBA fans in general because of that. More than enough people on the GB think this Morris sisters thing is the Suns fault because of that.

Aren't we still a hot destination for superstars, why are fans here being so pessimistic? I mean LMA almost signed here!!! Just like we almost got Curry!! Isn't that what really counts??

Wow. It must be a torture for you being a Suns fan.

I want them to win at least one ring before my death. I guess it is too much to ask.

And I find it funny that people think we should be all happy and jolly as if we have accomplished great things. In that recent thread on if your fanbase is optimistic or pessimistic on GB, Warriors fans were saying that their fanbase is pessimistic even despite winning the ring.....so the team that just won a crap load of games and the eventual championship and maybe the 2nd best player on the planet as well as a second superstar and the best role players in the league has a fanbase that's not exactly super optimistic and yet the Phoenix Suns fans should be?

The Chargers are almost in the same boat in many respects, but you don't seem to have the negative sentiment nearly as much with them. It lately does seem like you just don't like being a fan of the Suns. Is that the case? If it is, why are you a fan? I'd like a ring too, but I watch and follow mostly for fun...a ring would be awesome. It was great watching AZ win the national championship one year in basketball, but that has zero impact on how much I pull for them or are heartbroken when they lose, or elated when they win. I don't feel "complete" because they won one championship. I think the championship or bust mentality has gotten a bit out of hand.

[Mr-Al]

Markieff + Archie + Pick for Cody Zeller + Frank Kaminsky straight up

or..

Hornets: Kieff, Capela

Rockets: Goodwin, a pick

Suns: Zeller, Kaminsky

[bwgood77]

That may be Suns advantage: Al would play as a PF with better center than he ever had in Atlanta. Our chances are slim but who knows what will happens, especially if Suns would have good season and Hawks would disappoint.

Yes, that would be a HUGE get. Who knows what he likes? I'm not sure where he is originally from, but he went to Florida and is now in Atlanta so he is likely from the south.

I don't think Durant is going anywhere, so if that's the case, I'd throw everything at Horford. He could be a guy that would like to play with someone like Chandler in the middle.

[bwgood77]

Suns have half as many TNT games and half as many ESPN games as last season...

Good, we always seem to surprise when no one expects anything and disappoint when everyone expects everything. So we get all these bandwagon fans, and then when things go south, they constantly complain.

[Saberestar]

Markieff + Archie + Pick for Cody Zeller + Frank Kaminsky straight up

or..

Hornets: Kieff, Capela

Rockets: Goodwin, a pick

Suns: Zeller, Kaminsky

No way they trade both Zeller AND Kaminsky. Obviously they are really high on Kaminsky, so I think he is untouchable.

Zeller for Markieff seems realistic to me.

[bwgood77]

Unless we have a fair offer for Markieff's play and his contract, which is worth a pretty good package, I would keep him at least until mid season. There is bound to be one playoff striving team out there to have their PF get injured and will want to not fall out of the race, or something like that.

The longer you wait, the offers will only get better. The court case could get resolved, teams would realize the Suns won't trade him for pennies on the dollar, they may have injuries, etc. Unless you get a guy that makes us better RIGHT NOW, why the hell would you trade him? If you end up trading him for picks, you can do that later.

I would be surprised if McD traded him for bad value. He has yet to do that. I couldn't believe he got two firsts (one unprotected) for a guy that was certainly going to be an unrestricted free agent in a few months. What Miami did was worse than what we did...at least we gave away a protected pick, got a younger player who also nearly made the all star team like Dragic, paid him far less, etc.

[Sunsdeuce]

Markieff (new word for fart) is on a new four year contract. He has zero leverage. I'd rather his a$$ sit for 4 years and fine him for conduct detrimental to the team than take a crap deal.

[Miklo]

These Morris twins are showing early signs of being locker room cancers. Agreed though that we shouldn't take a bad deal just to get rid of him immediately.

[bwgood77]

Unless I missed something that he said, I think if he is not traded he will come to camp and play hard and hope there is a reasonable trade offer for him.

I know he said he wants to be traded, but he wasn't a complete ass about it (again, unless I missed something)...sure it's stupid, but some part of it is respect to his brother.

Sure, suspend him if he is vastly disrupting chemistry or constantly yelling at the coach, or fighting with teammates, or whatever, but I don't think he will do that if he really wants to be traded. Marcus might, but Markieff seems smart enough to know that the best way to get traded is to get a good offer from another team, and to do that, you have to prove you are the type of player that team wants. And if he doesn't know this, his agent is telling him this.

I mean, people are taking Gambo's rampant speculations as facts, pretending they already happened and saying suspend his ass. I mean, that's a little ridiculous.

[Sunsdeuce]

These Morris twins are showing early signs of being locker room cancers. Agreed though that we shouldn't take a bad deal just to get rid of him immediately.

I think we are past the point of "early signs". Lol

[lilfishi22]

Markieff (new word for fart) is on a new four year contract. He has zero leverage. I'd rather his a$$ sit for 4 years and fine him for conduct detrimental to the team than take a crap deal.

As I understand it, suspending him would require a very good reason and would involve him not getting paid. Keeping him away from the team would mean he still gets paid.

As far as I know, he's still going to show up but probably give less than 100% effort.

[lilfishi22]

Unless I missed something that he said, I think if he is not traded he will come to camp and play hard and hope there is a reasonable trade offer for him.

I know he said he wants to be traded, but he wasn't a complete ass about it (again, unless I missed something)...sure it's stupid, but some part of it is respect to his brother.

Sure, suspend him if he is vastly disrupting chemistry or constantly yelling at the coach, or fighting with teammates, or whatever, but I don't think he will do that if he really wants to be traded. Marcus might, but Markieff seems smart enough to know that the best way to get traded is to get a good offer from another team, and to do that, you have to prove you are the type of player that team wants. And if he doesn't know this, his agent is telling him this.

I mean, people are taking Gambo's rampant speculations as facts, pretending they already happened and saying suspend his ass. I mean, that's a little ridiculous.

I agree about your point on Gambo's "insider info". Seems like Gambo is going on a limb to make the situation look worse than it really is. He makes it sound like Kieff is going to make it very difficult for everyone but based on Kieff's interview, it sounds like he's going to still come in and still play but his focus won't be there. Basically Kieff is not so subtly sending a message to McD that he'll still meet his bare minimum "professional" obligations but it would be best to just move him.

[thamadkant]

You don't keep a player on your roster who clearly doesn't want to be there and can cause animosity and further damage in the locker room.

He'd tune out during locker room team discussions, have negative body language, tune out during game time outs, he'd give minimal effort etc.

People not seeing the impact of this to the entire team has not played in a sports team before it seems.

Especially with young players and passive personalities and a nice guy coach...
Markieff Morris needs to be shipped out. It's absolutely for the betterment of the other 14 players and coaching staff trying everything every night to help the team move forward.


McD and Hornacek will MOVE him so it doesn't matter what the "keep Markieff unless a good value trade comes up" wagon wants here.

It's just like when the Pistons as SVG waived Josh Smith. Losing a malcontent player for less than he's worth is likely to boost the team's overall moral.

Like I said, I'm 100% sure and I've been right about the Morris twins and FO relationship for a while now, that McD and Hornacek are trying to find a deal for him even if it's 75 cents for the dollar.

Just as McD did with Dragic and Thomas, he will ship players out who don't want to play the team game wearing the suns jersey.

And good riddance.

[Sunsdeuce]

Suns put themselves in a bad spot. Decided to build around the wrong players and wrong system. So many mistakes Ryan mcd has made and they are coming back to bite him in his A$$. First, you commit to Goran and from the start. Bledsoe (I'm sorry but Bledsoe ain't nothing special) should have been coming off the bench (he should have never started). Second, he committed to a bull$hit 2 PG system that has never worked (but he thinks he is smarter than everyone and it's going to work (ok Chip Kelly). Third, you don't resign Tucker and stop the development of younger players. Forth, you don't keep Morris twins, they we're average at best. Fifth, you don't sign IT and think he is going to be content coming off the bench. iT bitched about his playing time in sac town. I mean come on.

Ryan mcd struck gold or hit the jackpot or whatever you want to say for his first year. Now he is showing his inexperience in an extreme way. He has mishandled players situation extremely bad.

A lot of players are bitching and they all have one thing in common, they feel they were lied too. That starts with Ryan. Being a GM is more than just moving players like chess pieces!

This is what happens when you sign and move players around based on analytics. Takes the human element out of everything and causes drama which we are experiencing now.

[Sunsdeuce]

In the last three years these players have bitched about the Suns FO and have either left or were traded. They all basically said the Suns lied to them. I see a trend.

iT
Green
Goran
Frye
Marcus
markieff

(I could care less what the criminal brothers think)

[Moochthemonkey]

Yea I wonder what the hell is wrong with these people. 76 years without a championship ring, 6 straight years now without even sniffing one playoff series and multiple players and agents of this team bad mouthing the team publicly in the last two years and Suns being a laughing stock among NBA fans in general because of that. More than enough people on the GB think this Morris sisters thing is the Suns fault because of that.

Aren't we still a hot destination for superstars, why are fans here being so pessimistic? I mean LMA almost signed here!!! Just like we almost got Curry!! Isn't that what really counts??

Wow. It must be a torture for you being a Suns fan.

I want them to win at least one ring before my death. I guess it is too much to ask.

Yes, that is too much for you to ask. With your constant negativity, throwing in the towel at the beginning of game threads, ripping the team even after wins, making unwarranted slanderous comments towards players of the team, being a sometimes mean spirited poster who goes out of their way to make "I-told-you-so" comments constantly over the past few seasons...I couldn't ever wish against it, but out of all fans on this board you do not deserve to see your "favorite" team win a championship.

[Moochthemonkey]

In the last three years these players have bitched about the Suns FO and have either left or were traded. They all basically said the Suns lied to them. I see a trend.

iT
Green
Goran
Frye
Marcus
markieff

(I could care less what the criminal brothers think)

When did Frye and Green bitch about the FO? Do you have a link.

[bwgood77]

Unless I missed something that he said, I think if he is not traded he will come to camp and play hard and hope there is a reasonable trade offer for him.

I know he said he wants to be traded, but he wasn't a complete ass about it (again, unless I missed something)...sure it's stupid, but some part of it is respect to his brother.

Sure, suspend him if he is vastly disrupting chemistry or constantly yelling at the coach, or fighting with teammates, or whatever, but I don't think he will do that if he really wants to be traded. Marcus might, but Markieff seems smart enough to know that the best way to get traded is to get a good offer from another team, and to do that, you have to prove you are the type of player that team wants. And if he doesn't know this, his agent is telling him this.

I mean, people are taking Gambo's rampant speculations as facts, pretending they already happened and saying suspend his ass. I mean, that's a little ridiculous.

I agree about your point on Gambo's "insider info". Seems like Gambo is going on a limb to make the situation look worse than it really is. He makes it sound like Kieff is going to make it very difficult for everyone but based on Kieff's interview, it sounds like he's going to still come in and still play but his focus won't be there. Basically Kieff is not so subtly sending a message to McD that he'll still meet his bare minimum "professional" obligations but it would be best to just move him.

Maybe the bare minimum in practice and stuff like that, or maybe not even show up to practice..none of that would surprise me. But he would be a huge idiot to not give it his all in games if he wants another team to value his abilities and trade for him. He may be stupid, but I don't know if he is stupid enough to not show he can help a team win. Sure he may try and shoot every time he has the ball even if there is a better pass, or whatever, but it's extremely counter intuitive to make yourself look worse on the court intentionally if you want another team to trade for you.

[Sunsdeuce]

In the last three years these players have bitched about the Suns FO and have either left or were traded. They all basically said the Suns lied to them. I see a trend.

iT
Green
Goran
Frye
Marcus
markieff

(I could care less what the criminal brothers think)

When did Frye and Green bitch about the FO? Do you have a link.

You don't remember frye calling the front office liars about the contract stuff and IT laughing and joking after losses. It was mentioned on ktar that IT wasn't happy with his role.