Should Ryan Mcdonough be fired?

[bigfoot]

Yet another crazy ass thread. To put it succinctly ... NNNNNOOOOOOOO f*cking way!!!!

The last thing we need is to turn the revolving door of Suns' GMs and Coaches. We've been there and done that since 2005 with Kerr, D'Antoni, Sarver the pretend GM, Blanks, and McD. That's a GM every two years. Add in coaches D'Antoni, Porter, Gentry, Hunter, and Horny. That is too much turnover. We need a stable front office and coaching situation to work out a long term plan. Last thing we need is a GM who will come in a want to put in his coaches and his players. This is the start of the third year for both McD and Horny. Personally I like to see both of them extended for at least another three years. If they can't turn it around in six years then by all means show them the door

[Damkac]

McD has done many great moves and 2 main mistakes:
- signing Thomas
-resigning Marcus (and Markieff?)

I had nothing against Thomas and he was signed for great contract for his production but adding him ruined team chemistry as we had 3 PG that all wanted to be starters. Only explanation of that move is that McD was thinking that Bledsoe will not resign. Otherwise it was just stupid.
In Morris case, I'm wondering what would happen if instead of offering contracts for both twins we would offer all that money just to Markieff. Would he signed or will he still be mad that we don't want to resign his brother with him? Anyway the biggest mistake was bringing Marcus here in the first place. But of course it isn't McD fault.

He started his job great then had a very disappointing season (mostly because of that 2 bad moves). Let's see how he will handle his 3rd year.

[batsmasher]

Just fire the entire Phoenix Suns. Send them to Seattle. They're a lost cause apparently.

[Bogyo]

Just to answer the question: No. If there was a poll about it, with yes and no, I' m sure it would be 90%+ "no".
But the honeymoon is definatley over after a couple questionable moves, and couple questionable results by those moves.
The jury is still out I'd say. Give him another offseason or so, then we'll be able to answer the question better.

Btw: why not put a poll in? Yes/No/Wait and see for a year

[garrick]

We don't have a single all star on the team so Ryan shouldn't feel like he should tip toe around and have to nurse the hurt feelings of bit players like the Morris twins.
Keiff probably is copying Dragic and making a list of teams he wants to be traded to but the only problem is Keiff hasn't come close to duplicating Dragic's all star season so good luck finding a team that is going to want to trade for him.

[bwgood77]

McD has done many great moves and 2 main mistakes:
- signing Thomas
-resigning Marcus (and Markieff?)

I had nothing against Thomas and he was signed for great contract for his production but adding him ruined team chemistry as we had 3 PG that all wanted to be starters. Only explanation of that move is that McD was thinking that Bledsoe will not resign. Otherwise it was just stupid.
In Morris case, I'm wondering what would happen if instead of offering contracts for both twins we would offer all that money just to Markieff. Would he signed or will he still be mad that we don't want to resign his brother with him? Anyway the biggest mistake was bringing Marcus here in the first place. But of course it isn't McD fault.

He started his job great then had a very disappointing season (mostly because of that 2 bad moves). Let's see how he will handle his 3rd year.

Thinking about it, it makes you wonder if McD was in a lose lose situation with the twins no matter how he played it. They got signed to a great value deal, but yes, if you try and sign just one, or sign them separately, perhaps you end up having to either overpay, or in the case of only signing Markieff, he refuses unless his brother is signed at the same time.

[Mulhollanddrive]

He got a 4 year contract from what I remember (not sure that's changed with his promotion).

I think 4 off-seasons should be able to accomplish the core of your plan.

[Tahleron]

No gm is going to go without making mistakes, it's probably more about how well you unwind them and so far he's done a good job at it. Unless there's a sentiment amongst players to stay away from phoenix over what he's done (like there's one against sarver for being the cheerleader for anti players in the cba negotiations), no

[RaisingArizona]

All professional athletes know they can be traded at any time. Even one's as stupid as the Morris's know that. So why the reaction from them? The only way you can explain the Morris's behavior is if they were told or led to believe they would be kept together here on the Suns for the remainder of their contract. That by itself is not completely damning to the front office. But when you add in the Dragic situation you cant help but wonder what kind of promises the front office is making to these guys. Your can't tell a guy he's gonna be your point guard of the future (Dragic) then all of the sudden tell him........uh gee about that point guard of the future thing.......ya uh........your gonna be playing shooting guard. Your can't tell the Morris's - sign here, take this contract and you'll be together on the Phx. Suns for the next four years then trade one of them away and try to recruit a replacement for the other one and not expect them to be pissed. We don't know what was said to these guys behind closed doors. What promises, if any, were made. But jeese, you gotta wonder, the evidence just keeps piling up.

I'm not trying to justify the Morris's behavior. Everyone knows they handled the situation like the little whiney babies they are. But everyone knew they were little whiney babies -- shouldn't McDonough have seen this coming from a mile away?

You do know that Marcus was traded in salary cap relief to be able to sign LMA outright? I'm sure it ruffled Kieff's feathers too but McD goes big and almost landed him. I'd much rather my GM go after the stars in FA than tanking and hoping we draft a star.

I remember Gambo at the time was explaining how the Marcus trade really saved our ass from having to give up Len or Warren in a sign and trade. Basically, a team wouldn't have been able to screw us for taking on salary.

[MrMiyagi]

Next thread: SHOULD WE TRADE TYSON CHANDLER?

First Post: We acquired Tyson Chandler for his veteran leadership and to be a defensive anchor, but he has yet to prove either of these skills. We have young players badmouthing our organization, why hasn't Tyson done something? As for being a defensive anchor, he hasn't even blocked a shot for us! So much for being a rim protector.

[NaturalBuns]

I think he's alright.
His drafting is pretty solid.

-Len
-Warren
- Goodwin (rather he takes time to develop on this team or another team he has skills)

-booker?
-bogdanvic - looks real solid.

He's also attempted to get LBJ and LMA.
He did make a mistake with the IT signing that also ended up sending a disgruntled goran away. To me it just depends on that Brandon knight trade.

He hasn't been a disaster that's for sure

[letsgosuns]

Imo, there are only three moves I do not like that McDonough made. Signed Isaiah Thomas, signed Anthony Tolliver, and drafted Tyler Ennis. The majority of moves he made I am very happy with, especially his draft picks.

Secondly, I loved that he let Frye go because I think Frye sucks and the Suns would have never gotten anywhere with him. The only time Frye made the playoffs with the Suns was in 2010 when he was a BENCH PLAYER. With Frye as a starter, the Suns were nothing. Thirdly the players he got rid of like Scola, Gortat, Brown, Marshall, Beasley, Tolliver, Dragic, Thomas, Plumlee, and now Marcus are all players that I wanted off the team. I never for one second believed Dragic was actually a third team All NBA player. Had a good season and carried the team while Bledsoe was out. So what. The only thing I remember about Dragic is game 3 of the 2010 semi-finals against the Spurs. That is it. I am happy he is off the team because that guy is nowhere near a superstar player yet he is paid like one.

Right now, on paper, the Suns have the best center combination in franchise history, not even close. Never have they had a premier 7'1" defensive center in franchise history like Chandler, or an up and coming 7'1" center with legitimate offensive skills like Len. So right there McDonough has taken care of a major hole that has been on the Suns for almost 50 years. The funny thing is that the Suns organization is known for great power forwards and terrible centers. That seems to have been flipped recently. Anyway, I hope McDonough is able to make some more surprising moves and get the team a championship.

[tdjm]

Imo, there are only three moves I do not like that McDonough made. Signed Isaiah Thomas, signed Anthony Tolliver, and drafted Tyler Ennis. The majority of moves he made I am very happy with, especially his draft picks.

Secondly, I loved that he let Frye go because I think Frye sucks and the Suns would have never gotten anywhere with him. The only time Frye made the playoffs with the Suns was in 2010 when he was a BENCH PLAYER. With Frye as a starter, the Suns were nothing. Thirdly the players he got rid of like Scola, Gortat, Brown, Marshall, Beasley, Tolliver, Dragic, Thomas, Plumlee, and now Marcus are all players that I wanted off the team. I never for one second believed Dragic was actually a third team All NBA player. Had a good season and carried the team while Bledsoe was out. So what. The only thing I remember about Dragic is game 3 of the 2010 semi-finals against the Spurs. That is it. I am happy he is off the team because that guy is nowhere near a superstar player yet he is paid like one.

Right now, on paper, the Suns have the best center combination in franchise history, not even close. Never have they had a premier 7'1" defensive center in franchise history like Chandler, or an up and coming 7'1" center with legitimate offensive skills like Len. So right there McDonough has taken care of a major hole that has been on the Suns for almost 50 years. The funny thing is that the Suns organization is known for great power forwards and terrible centers. That seems to have been flipped recently. Anyway, I hope McDonough is able to make some more surprising moves and get the team a championship.

I don't even mind the Thomas signing, because I agree with you 100% on your Dragic feelings. Think how sick it would have been to deal Dragic coming off a third team all NBA year as part of a great package, and then have Thomas as a replacement for 7 mil or less. Wouldn't even have to get Knight, who I utterly loathe, so that's a big plus for me. I didn't enjoy watching Thomas very much, but he was objectively pretty effective (the biggest problem is that Thomas and Green have the same skill sets, but Thomas is absurdly better at literally everything and having both was terrible. Gerald should've been traded too after the fluke season).

Tolliver signing doesn't bother me either since it was basically a freeroll, who cares. Guy's a scrub, but paying 3 mil to find that out is pretty painless. He'd be much better on this year's team with an established Len and Chandler to inhale boards, his atrocious rebounding stuck out like a sore thumb on last year's squad.

The biggest problem with McD so far IMO is he's trying to walk this middle road between treating players like assets and treating them like a real team. He needs to pick one or the other and stick with it. I'd prefer he just doubles down on treating dudes like assets (which would have led to Goran and Gerald being flipped much earlier, for example). Treating the team like a real team is pointless until you're actually good.

[Suns1969]

No. He's done a solid job with imaginative, aggressive moves. Some work. Some don't. A lot hinges on Knight and Bledsoe.

[NavLDO]

So, Marcus gripes and whines about being traded, and especially, because apparently McD didn't call him ahead of time, while he was on a romantic getaway with Kieff. The guy who threw a 'hissy-fit' last season. The guy who is constantly running his mouth or tweeting or whatever--so since he complains, and because Dragic's vag is sore, we should fire McD after 2 seasons?

How come nobody is airing all the complaining that Granger, Bullock, Wright, etc. are doing? Wait a minute, they didn't complain, you say??? C'mon, because a few whiny butts are crying, while professionals aren't, we should fire McD?

This is all a perfect example of what happens when fans' 'immediate gratification' hasn't been 'itched'.

[jcsunsfan]

McD has done many great moves and 2 main mistakes:
- signing Thomas
-resigning Marcus (and Markieff?)

Hindsight. Both of them universally praised moves at the time. Not just praised, praised highly by suns fans and press alike. IT was called by many the steal of the free agency period. But having 3 starter pg's was going to be a problem. I do think they thought that Bledsoe was a goner.

In fact, getting the Morrii locked up like he did is STILL a good move. Markieff has more value now than if he was a rfa this summer. We would have let Marcus walk, instead we got a future second for him.

The only bad move was probably trading for Marcus (from Houston). But who could have known these two would act this way?

[Frank Lee]

This is all a perfect example of what happens when fans' 'immediate gratification' hasn't been 'itched'.

It also happens when you marginalize the best PG we had, a proven one, and replace him with one or two we are 'hoping' will perform according to their potential. Is there any wonder this 'running'' team stumbled when you remove the one player who effectively pushed the ball ? Had Bled been able to do what the coach wanted, which he just seems hesitant to do, hesitant like Horny has to remind him every possession.... if Bled steps it up, and if Knight follows suit... the Dragon missers' (I am one) complaints will subside. (please...Dragon Slayers need not remind us of how happy they are by not paying his ticket. We now have 27mill + wrapped up in 'we hope'. and the Dragon makes a whopping 800G this yr more than potential leaders of this offense )

We got rid of one who does, for one/two who should do.

And furthermore... McDuh wasn't forced to trade the Dragon...but he just couldn't resist the 'paper' wealth of two future draft picks...picks that if used, will be for guys likely in high school/jr high right now. Bird in the hand for Riley. Look at what is going on with NoMoBro... would we deal him for the same return as Dragic ? May have to.

Somewhere in my extensive trading imagination, I think a deal down the road (Dec) was deemed possible.... Bled and NoMoBro for Love. KLove does not have a no trade clause... and what LeBron wants, he will get. If we keep the 'Crying Shame' I'm betting on some package like that to glean a stud. Have to give to get.

[King4Day]

I'm definitely not for having him fired. I'd ask those who are for it, who would you replace him with?

[saintEscaton]

I'm definitely not for having him fired. I'd ask those who are for it, who would you replace him with?

Sending in my application right now. Anybody on this boarding wiling to give me a letter of recommendation?

[NavLDO]

This is all a perfect example of what happens when fans' 'immediate gratification' hasn't been 'itched'.

It also happens when you marginalize the best PG we had, a proven one, and replace him with one or two we are 'hoping' will perform according to their potential. Is there any wonder this 'running'' team stumbled when you remove the one player who effectively pushed the ball ? Had Bled been able to do what the coach wanted, which he just seems hesitant to do, hesitant like Horny has to remind him every possession.... if Bled steps it up, and if Knight follows suit... the Dragon missers' (I am one) complaints will subside. (please...Dragon Slayers need not remind us of how happy they are by not paying his ticket. We now have 27mill + wrapped up in 'we hope'. and the Dragon makes a whopping 800G this yr more than potential leaders of this offense )

We got rid of one who does, for one/two who should do.

And furthermore... McDuh wasn't forced to trade the Dragon...but he just couldn't resist the 'paper' wealth of two future draft picks...picks that if used, will be for guys likely in high school/jr high right now. Bird in the hand for Riley. Look at what is going on with NoMoBro... would we deal him for the same return as Dragic ? May have to.

Somewhere in my extensive trading imagination, I think a deal down the road (Dec) was deemed possible.... Bled and NoMoBro for Love. KLove does not have a no trade clause... and what LeBron wants, he will get. If we keep the 'Crying Shame' I'm betting on some package like that to glean a stud. Have to give to get.

Remind me again what our record was with 'the best PG we had'? 25-57 you say? Then we added in that 'scrub' Bledsoe, ran a 2PG system that flourished and turned it around to a 48-34 squad?

You know what professionals do when faced with a challenge? Man up and make it work to the best of your ability. We didn't have IT but half a season and Dragic goes crying to his mommy that the FO didn't keep their promises. I got an idea, Dragic. Be a man and keep your whining to behind close doors, and friggin' give the FO a chance to rectify the situation. Was he complaining the year we went 48-34? No? He started crying when the system didn't work in his favor, rather than be patient, and give McD an opportunity to fix the 'gaff' of implanting IT into our system.

So, go ahead Frank and make excuses for Dragic, but the proof is in the pudding--when things were going well, no complaints, but the second he started playing at a less than optimal level, he just griped about anything he could, so long as he didn't have to take responsibility for his own mediocre play, and again, if you have an issue, work it behind closed doors. Don't air your dirty laundry.

And do you want to know why he was whining? It's clear as day why--because it was his 'contract' year, and since he wasn't playing at an optimal level, he started blaming everyone but himself. The FO even bent backward to bring his brother on board to make him happy. So, sorry if I'm not buying the 'poor little repressed Goran' routine.

And you say he wasn't forced to trade Dragic?

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2015/02/18/goran-dragic-phoenix-suns-trust-broken-trade/23628145/

No, they should have kept him and allow him to become locker room cancer--that would've been wonderful.

And again...

The Suns, who traded Dragic in 2011, traded for Bledsoe in 2013 when he was one of the most-sought trade commodities and created a dual-playmaker backcourt. Dragic thrived when Bledsoe missed half of the season and they ultimately found chemistry for a 48-win season.

Dragic was content in that set-up, but the addition of another starting-quality point guard in Thomas has put Dragic almost exclusively off the ball no matter if Thomas or Bledsoe are paired with him or if the Suns are in a three-point-guard lineup.

...as long as he was playing well, everything was fine, but then when he wasn't, well...

It's obvious that you and I are on opposite sides of this, and that's ok. Like I've said, you are one of the top posters on this forum (IMO, at least ), and MOST of the time, your analysis of a situation has been researched. But I think on this one issue, you and I are maybe a bit 'emotionally charged' on the McD topic, and we aren't going to find common ground we can agree on. I understand that maybe McD played a significant part in Dragic's unhappiness, but I guarantee you, that had Dragic's play remained at the level it was a season prior, he wouldn't have asked for a trade, and he took ZERO responsibility for that, and blamed it all on McD.

And yes, I miss having Dragic on the team, but if it's between Dragic or the Suns, I'm choosing the Suns. And I'm not absolving McD from any culpability, but sorry, I blame Dragic more so than McD. Had Dragic kept his mouth shut, and let McD trade IT and see how things went, then he'd still be here--of that, I have no doubt, but Dragic forced McD's hand, plain and simple, so yes, Dragic 'owns' this more than McD.