Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[RaisingArizona]

The Gilligan hat is cool? What happened?

[WeekapaugGroove]

The Gilligan hat is cool? What happened?

Right? So odd; I first noticed it on the altlanta hardknocks last year. Not a great look.

[NBA Fiend]

I remember reading that Horford was made available in trades prior to last season. http://www.realtytoday.com/articles/6729/20141017/al-horford-atlanta-hawks-nba-rumors-charlotte-hornets-nba-news.htm

This is the last year on his deal and with the exploding cap he will get paid. The question is will the Hawks max him after they just paid Milsap. I am sure McD has made the call. What do you think it would take? I know that some here have soured on Goodwin as they feel he has his head lodged in the Kieefinators backside. So along with Kieef what else as a Suns fan do you offer? The most I think McD goes is a combo of Tucker/Goodwin maybe pick to go along with Kieff. With Horford being a free agent maybe Atlanta would be more apt to deal him at a reasonable price.

[asudevil]

I remember reading that Horford was made available in trades prior to last season. http://www.realtytoday.com/articles/6729/20141017/al-horford-atlanta-hawks-nba-rumors-charlotte-hornets-nba-news.htm

This is the last year on his deal and with the exploding cap he will get paid. The question is will the Hawks max him after they just paid Milsap. I am sure McD has made the call. What do you think it would take? I know that some here have soured on Goodwin as they feel he has his head lodged in the Kieefinators backside. So along with Kieef what else as a Suns fan do you offer? The most I think McD goes is a combo of Tucker/Goodwin maybe pick to go along with Kieff. With Horford being a free agent maybe Atlanta would be more apt to deal him at a reasonable price.

In order for this trade, the Hawks would need to know what they have in Goodwin. Tucker would be a 1 year rental, and Kieff would probably not be happy. If Goodwin showed promise of a starting SG, then it would be enticing, but he hasnt.

This would be a midseason "hawks are flailing" and "suns are exceeding expectations" trade. Too bad we arent there right now.

My option:

Suns trade:
Kieff/Goodwin
Suns get:
Monti/Terry (2 years $8mil 2nd year TO)

Monti becomes that PF they resign after this season. Terry is the backup SG for a year until Booker matures. Terry comes home to retire for a year or two. After that Bogdan comes from overseas.

Raps trade:
Patterson
Raps get:
Kieff

Raps get a starting PF for cheaps. Markieff has already stated they are a primary destination.

Rocks trade:
Monti/Terry
Rocks get:
Patterson/Goodwin

Rocks get a cheap backup for Jones, and a cheap backup for Harden. This would be a move that bolsters that playoff depth. The only reason they do this is if they have as much confidence in Goodwin that the suns do.

[King4Day]

I remember reading that Horford was made available in trades prior to last season. http://www.realtytoday.com/articles/6729/20141017/al-horford-atlanta-hawks-nba-rumors-charlotte-hornets-nba-news.htm

This is the last year on his deal and with the exploding cap he will get paid. The question is will the Hawks max him after they just paid Milsap. I am sure McD has made the call. What do you think it would take? I know that some here have soured on Goodwin as they feel he has his head lodged in the Kieefinators backside. So along with Kieef what else as a Suns fan do you offer? The most I think McD goes is a combo of Tucker/Goodwin maybe pick to go along with Kieff. With Horford being a free agent maybe Atlanta would be more apt to deal him at a reasonable price.

I think it would take a lot more to pry Horford even though he's going to be a free agent. However, if they feel he won't re-sign, then Morris, Goodwin, and a pick isn't the worst return they could get.

[Qwigglez]

I don't think Horford is gonna make us any more of a title contender. He would probably make most Suns fans content though. Not as good as an option as Aldridge, but an upgrade over Kieff.

[Mr Puddles]

My cat mittens told me that we're getting Dmo for Keiff and that over the next two years Chandlers defense and rebounding, and Dmo's silky smooth post game will both rub off on Len... And my cat mittens is never wrong

[charley barkles]

I have one question? What possessed Kieff to put two teams on a short list and make Toronto--of all teams--one of them. Has anyone ever put Toronto on their short list?

I assume his agent is trying to work out trades and Houston and Toronto are the only two willing partners.

Maybe because Toronto is out of the country... Lol

[Frank Lee]

NoMoBro is trying to replace his brother with one of his bros. Poor guy just can't be alone.

[saintEscaton]

Too bad Queef's offensive game goes against every principle of Moreyball and I'm pretty sure DMo is off limits as the Rockets would likely choose to keep him over TJones when his current contract expires and he's up for a payday. And lol you can be certain that Atlanta will max out Horford. I don't think we're that attractive of a destination for him to leave money on the table to bolt . He might even take a hometown discount to give the Hawks more financial flexibility. Wemanaged to exact a bounty of 2 picks from Miami for a what was then late season rental of a one year wonder undervalued guard nearing 30 who gave the Heat no assurance of re-signing when we had no leverage or chance at keeping . I'm sure Atlanta will ask for the farm given that they have no reason to move Horford and are in win-now mode with a closing window of opportunity

[Frank Lee]

.......then late season rental of a one year wonder undervalued guard nearing 30 who gave the Heat no assurance of re-signing when we had no leverage or chance at keeping.....

pretty certain Riley was certain that Goran was certain. You see.... Riley and Mickey made no secret about their desire for him and were crystal clear on what role he was going to play. We easily could have kept and re-signed Dragic had we practiced what the experienced grand master GM did. Dragic was allowed to fester in the dark in a marginalized role, pushed aside so McDuh could show off his prize FA acquisition which he apparently snagged just for trade. (for a late late pick in a shallow draft?) They will never admit it, but it is easy to see the whole thing could have been replayed with a far different result. Even as a sign and trade. As it stands, we lost a valuable piece/player for nothing that helped in this immediate rebuild. Sure, time will tell, but to call that deal some kind of victory is premature until it all plays out.

Placing so much value on future unknown picks is self-ass-patting at its finest. Go back and review the trade of an NBA starting center (GORTAT) for a pick that was two yrs down the road.... it yielded Tyler Ennis. TheGORAT for Tyler Ennis. Fair value ??? (Ernie G says thanks) Would anyone championing the miami picks care to comment on that similar scenario that actually happened?

If you want to see the future, sometimes all you need to do is look at the past.

[MrMiyagi]

.......then late season rental of a one year wonder undervalued guard nearing 30 who gave the Heat no assurance of re-signing when we had no leverage or chance at keeping.....

pretty certain Riley was certain that Goran was certain. You see.... Riley and Mickey made no secret about their desire for him and were crystal clear on what role he was going to play. We easily could have kept and re-signed Dragic had we practiced what the experienced grand master GM did. Dragic was allowed to fester in the dark in a marginalized role, pushed aside so McDuh could show off his prize FA acquisition which he apparently snagged just for trade. (for a late late pick in a shallow draft?) They will never admit it, but it is easy to see the whole thing could have been replayed with a far different result. Even as a sign and trade. As it stands, we lost a valuable piece/player for nothing that helped in this immediate rebuild. Sure, time will tell, but to call that deal some kind of victory is premature until it all plays out.

Placing so much value on future unknown picks is self-ass-patting at its finest. Go back and review the trade of an NBA starting center (GORTAT) for a pick that was two yrs down the road.... it yielded Tyler Ennis. TheGORAT for Tyler Ennis. Fair value ??? (Ernie G says thanks) Would anyone championing the miami picks care to comment on that similar scenario that actually happened?

If you want to see the future, sometimes all you need to do is look at the past.

Except Dragic only played 1.7 minutes per game less than he did the season previous and took a 2.7 drop in usage %. And it's not like he exploded when he got to Miami, he put up almost the exact same numbers as in Phoenix. People need to stop making it out that Goran was some sort of victim in this scenario, like he was cast off to the bench and took a 15 minute per game cut in playing time.

[bwgood77]

I agree with some of both sides here, but I can't believe we are still talking this much about this. I thought we had gotten past it FINALLY since we had beaten it to death, but it's like it's resurrected.

[saintEscaton]

.......then late season rental of a one year wonder undervalued guard nearing 30 who gave the Heat no assurance of re-signing when we had no leverage or chance at keeping.....

pretty certain Riley was certain that Goran was certain. You see.... Riley and Mickey made no secret about their desire for him and were crystal clear on what role he was going to play. We easily could have kept and re-signed Dragic had we practiced what the experienced grand master GM did. Dragic was allowed to fester in the dark in a marginalized role, pushed aside so McDuh could show off his prize FA acquisition which he apparently snagged just for trade. (for a late late pick in a shallow draft?) They will never admit it, but it is easy to see the whole thing could have been replayed with a far different result. Even as a sign and trade. As it stands, we lost a valuable piece/player for nothing that helped in this immediate rebuild. Sure, time will tell, but to call that deal some kind of victory is premature until it all plays out.

Placing so much value on future unknown picks is self-ass-patting at its finest. Go back and review the trade of an NBA starting center (GORTAT) for a pick that was two yrs down the road.... it yielded Tyler Ennis. TheGORAT for Tyler Ennis. Fair value ??? (Ernie G says thanks) Would anyone championing the miami picks care to comment on that similar scenario that actually happened?

If you want to see the future, sometimes all you need to do is look at the past.

I agree the FO is deserving of blame for putting themselves in such a precarious situation in the first place. Dragic rightfully felt slighted for being relegated to third-wheel but how is his role it any different in Miami where in the limited sample size his usage rate is almost identical to that when he was on the Suns playing out of position as an SF in the Hydra gimmick? He was still tasked with spot up duty as an additional ballhandler who must still defer to Old Man Wade. Only the nominal PG and still not given the reigns of the offense. I think he really wanted to feel "appreciated" and doted over while under the spotlight. And the Heat didn't have an assurance that he would immediately re-sign and forego testing the waters on the open market. Reportedly he was entertaining bolting to either the Knicks or Lakers where he hoped he would be given the the keys to a franchise. There surely was some sense of entitlement there and he was willing to throw everybody under the bus and quit mid-season to force his hand and demand out. .Dragic had already publicly disclosed the list of big-market teams he would consider re-signing and thereby severely restricted available deals. But imo he is not the caliber of player you chose to rebuild around especially this late in his career based off one outlier season of an otherwise unremarkable career. Who knows whether it was just a momentary flash in the pan? McDuh probably should have kept the Cinderella team together with the exception of Frye to judge whether it was a fools gold or an actual sustainable formula for replicable success.


I agree that giving him the max vs still overpaying Knight near the max isn't that much of a beneficial tradeoff when considering opportunity cost. And I am not a Knight fan either and think he is a fatally flawed player who is who he is currently. Just because he is 23 doesn't mean he has a springwell of untapped upside and these comparisons to Kyrie are laughable. He's not exactly a spring chicken and with 4 years already under his belt he is seasoned enough to come to a judgment upon. If it was up to me I would have sold high on Dragic when his value had peaked after the 12-13 season and never made a reactionary knee-jerk move in dealing that juicy Top 5 destined Lakers pick in exchange for Knight. That was a damage control move to send out the false message that the ship had been steadied and that all was well.


I usually have few good words for this FO but I can''t really bash the Miami trade. The FO managed to salvage something worth as opposed to letting him walk for nothing after royally screwing the bed and losing the upper hand . Sure everything leading up to it was handled terribly From the IT signing that was another shortsighted move done solely by the reasoning of being a "bargain deal" that would never fit in to the longterm plans of team and therefore flipped to clean house. A panicked contingency plan that ended up having unanticipated consequences. Sure Paul dragged out the Bledsoe negotiations but he was still an RFA who would have at least netted another serviceable guard via a sign and trade. While McDuh pouted his chest and also classlessly stooped to the same level to exchange warring words and asinine statements painting a poor image of this organization. But I hope these Miami picks turn into something. You are right that Top 10 protected '17 pick will likely be a late lotto at best and the unprotected '31 pick is far too in the future to reasonably foretell but who knows?. Its also quite possible the Don has more tricks up his greasy sleeves and finds a way to quickly reload the Heat since South Beach always appears to be a premiere destination for marquee FAs.

[Frank Lee]

..... People need to stop making it out that Goran was some sort of victim in this scenario, like he was cast off to the bench and took a 15 minute per game cut in playing time.

Come on Miyag...stick to the sarcasm. He wasn't cast off to the bench... he was put in the corner and had to watch the one on one fest...perhaps a worse seat than the bench.


I get it saint... agree... something for nothing isn't a bad trade...as the FO allowed something (Dragic) turn into practically nothing with their silent arrogance, then pooch screwed themselves with their response. And deferring to Wade has to be a heck of a lot easier to do than to IT or Bled... at least Dragic is back at PG.

I just can't salute those two picks like they are royalty. They will likely be used as tack ons in trade... Dragic is a tack on ? If we actually use them, well, they sure did not help the cause now.

[KLEON]

Is it possible to do a 3 or 4 team trade to get Cousins?

[JacobHoward]

Is it possible to do a 3 or 4 team trade to get Cousins?

I doubt it. George Karl was the only one that wanted Cousins traded, and it looks like the two are working things out.


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[KLEON]

Is it possible to do a 3 or 4 team trade to get Cousins?

I doubt it. George Karl was the only one that wanted Cousins traded, and it looks like the two are working things out.


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That's not what I heard today

[bwgood77]

Is it possible to do a 3 or 4 team trade to get Cousins?

I doubt it. George Karl was the only one that wanted Cousins traded, and it looks like the two are working things out.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

That's not what I heard today

Check the wiretap news above.

[saintEscaton]

I doubt it. George Karl was the only one that wanted Cousins traded, and it looks like the two are working things out.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

That's not what I heard today

Check the wiretap news above.

Only other source I could find was a Lakersnation article. So I wouldn't buy it as of yet.If push comes to shove Ranadive will likely intervene and fire Karl and override any decision made by Vlade