2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread

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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#141 » by jirrit » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:33 am

Hellcrooner wrote:


2010 vs 2016


Casillas > Casillas 16 : right
Pique > Pique16 : right
Iniesta > Iniesta16 : right
Cesc = Cesc 16 : hm, maybe right
Mata = Mata16 : hm, maybe Mata 10 is better
Ramos > Ramos 16 : hm, I'd say =
Busquets> Busquets 16 : I'd say =
Pedro > Pedro 16 : =
Llorente > Llorente 16 : hm = or <
Javi Martínez> Javi Martínez 16 : =
Silva= Silva 16 : right, maybe 16 is better
Navas= Navas 16 : hm, right or <


Then the probable new faces to replace old faces

Valdes = De gea : I'd say De Gea > Valdes
Reina > Moya : right
Albiol> Azpilicueta : no, =
Marchena > Camacho : =
Puyol>Bartra : right
Villa >Mata : why again Mata?
Xavi > isco : right
Torres> Alcacer : right
Capdevila = Beñat : right
Xavi Alonso = Koke : at his position Xabi > Koke
Arbeloa < Juanfran: right




I corrected it a bit :p But 2010 Spain > 2016 Spain obviously.
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#142 » by jirrit » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:38 am

Hellcrooner wrote:
Lakers415 wrote:Like I said, barca was lucky to win the treble last season. Their team is really not anywhere near the Pep team in terms of overall quality...

People have them as favs for UCL are in for a shock....


Actually they should not be anybodys favorite
There have been 0 back to backs since the group stage CL started.
Not to mention only Forest and MILan managed to do so in the last 40 years .


Yeah might be true but that MSN-frontline still remains the best ever IMO. This will be their second year. Barca is not as deep as they used to be under Pep, certainly not in defense/midfield. But these strikers man. If Ter Stegen could improve and have an impact like Courtois/old Casillas/Cech/Schmeichel-like goalkeepers that team would still be pretty awesome, just for their strikers. Also still got some solid youth coming. Oh and btw I think last season they actually didnt get that much goals against? Think Real got even more.

Nahh, I still believe (because it's my team maybe haha) in Enrique and the current squad. I think Neymar will be better again, he'll keep on getting better the next 5 years. Suarez and Messi maybe just peaked or are at their peak. Everyone can lose against Barcelona. But as you say, there has never been a b2b.
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#143 » by Lakers415 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:55 pm

Last season, Barcelona was really fortunate in terms of health for most of the season.

Both Madrid and Bayern suffered a lot in that department come Champs League time.

In the league, Barca didn't have much competition. Atletico sold half their team to Chelsea and Madrid was injury plagued all season long....

This year, Real will probably suck again because their manager and Barca only competition will be the new looked Atletico...
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#144 » by DD12 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:16 pm

Soccer board is full of trolls damn.
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#145 » by Hellcrooner » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:46 pm

Barcelona needs badly some new blood back in the defense and some STAR To take over from old iniesta.
And someone that improves rakitic.
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#146 » by baggab » Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:00 pm

First of all, excuse me for my bad english, i'm from Barcelona, and the spanish education system is a complete ****. :oops:

Barça will have a lot of problems this year, at least till Arda&Vidal start playing in January (thanks to Sandro Rosell and Bartomeu). In my opinion we will need a miracle to win the championship: our main problem is the bench, we don't have great reserves, well, in fact we've reserves that would not be starters in a mid table teams as Real Sociedad or Bilbao and it's too complicated play a 60-games season with 14 players. I mean, Bartra, Mathieu, Roberto, Adriano can't play here. Moreover you're not talking about our greaaaat mid players, Rakitic and Lasiesta, that create NOTHING we the ball on static offense, they are too lucky that Leo come down each 5 minutes and wides the field to Alba/Neymar at left, Suarez at center or combines with Alves at right side. It's too easy to play with God. And the first 4 games we will not have Piqué, the man who holds all our D, so **** me. I really hope that United buys Pedro, he is bad as ****, one of the top overrated players I've ever known. As I said, we will need a miracle, but I trust in Leo, so everything is possible.

In the other hand we have Real and Atlético. Real seems to me that will be a tough rival in La Liga, Benitez has already shown us that is good in domestic competition, and he had a lot of pieces to combine on the mid (if you ask me, i'll play 442, not 4231, but they'll have to sell Bale and it looks impossible right now), but he ever have had problems with the small teams, we'll see. Not a top playoffs coach (UCL, Copa).

And Atletico, well, I suppose that's a joke. This year they've added interesting players as Vietto, Carrasco, Jackson, Oliver (i really like this guy) but nothing to be considered a real contender. Yeah they've improved their offense that in April, May was a total ****, but they have the worst D players in the last 3 years (no Miranda, Mario, only Godin remains at his top level), and Gabi-Tiago who were dreadful last season won't keep the mid, it's impossible.

After the big 3 we find Valencia, think they'll have a great beginning, but first I need to see his physical level this Wed against Monaco. A big young team, the success or not of this season will depend of the UCL draw, they will had real problems in Liga if they fall in a hard UCL group.
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#147 » by Lakers415 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:02 pm

baggab wrote:First of all, excuse me for my bad english, i'm from Barcelona, and the spanish education system is a complete ****. :oops:

Barça will have a lot of problems this year, at least till Arda&Vidal start playing in January (thanks to Sandro Rosell and Bartomeu). In my opinion we will need a miracle to win the championship: our main problem is the bench, we don't have great reserves, well, in fact we've reserves that would not be starters in a mid table teams as Real Sociedad or Bilbao and it's too complicated play a 60-games season with 14 players. I mean, Bartra, Mathieu, Roberto, Adriano can't play here. Moreover you're not talking about our greaaaat mid players, Rakitic and Lasiesta, that create NOTHING we the ball on static offense, they are too lucky that Leo come down each 5 minutes and wides the field to Alba/Neymar at left, Suarez at center or combines with Alves at right side. It's too easy to play with God. And the first 4 games we will not have Piqué, the man who holds all our D, so **** me. I really hope that United buys Pedro, he is bad as ****, one of the top overrated players I've ever known. As I said, we will need a miracle, but I trust in Leo, so everything is possible.

In the other hand we have Real and Atlético. Real seems to me that will be a tough rival in La Liga, Benitez has already shown us that is good in domestic competition, and he had a lot of pieces to combine on the mid (if you ask me, i'll play 442, not 4231, but they'll have to sell Bale and it looks impossible right now), but he ever have had problems with the small teams, we'll see. Not a top playoffs coach (UCL, Copa).

And Atletico, well, I suppose that's a joke. This year they've added interesting players as Vietto, Carrasco, Jackson, Oliver (i really like this guy) but nothing to be considered a real contender. Yeah they've improved their offense that in April, May was a total ****, but they have the worst D players in the last 3 years (no Miranda, Mario, only Godin remains at his top level), and Gabi-Tiago who were dreadful last season won't keep the mid, it's impossible.

After the big 3 we find Valencia, think they'll have a great beginning, but first I need to see his physical level this Wed against Monaco. A big young team, the success or not of this season will depend of the UCL draw, they will had real problems in Liga if they fall in a hard UCL group.


Atletico has the best young CB in LA Liga....(or Varane)

Got rid of the useless suarez and team cancer manzukic

Got a viable CF in jackson martinez, one of argentina's best young talent in vietto and brought back felipe luis who was a key player for simeone during their title run is a huge upgrade....

Ideally

You say that atletico has their worse defense in years? Last season, after luis and thibo were both sold and miranda missed a good chunk of the season, they allowed 3 goals more than their title winning season.....29 goals vs 26....

Do you know why Miranda left? He knew his time was up and giminez was going to take his place and form the uruguayan combo of jimenez and godin.... Miranda left for Inter and Serie A, both inferior to atletico and La liga....

Look at their potential bench: Moya,savic,gamez, oliver torres, fernando torres, raul garcia, carrasco, tiago and correa.

When was the last time Rafa won a league title? Back in 2004?

Barcelona overall team is not that good and their depth as well. This season, barcelona will have too many games to play with not enough players to keep them fresh
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#148 » by Hellcrooner » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:07 pm

Oliver will most probabli be starting.
Also the probable pair at CB with Godin will be Savic

---------------------------------------------Oblak----------------------------------------------
-------Juanfran--------------Godin------------------Savic-----------------Filipe------------
-------------------------------Gabi-------------------Koke---------------------------------
-------Oliver------------------------------------------------------------Saul---------------
---------------------------------------Griezmann---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------Jackson----------------------------------------

Not too sold on their league Odds.

They may be difficult to take down on Copa and Cl, as ever.
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#149 » by Lakers415 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:24 pm

Hellcrooner wrote:Oliver will most probabli be starting.
Also the probable pair at CB with Godin will be Savic

---------------------------------------------Oblak----------------------------------------------
-------Juanfran--------------Godin------------------Savic-----------------Filipe------------
-------------------------------Gabi-------------------Koke---------------------------------
-------Oliver------------------------------------------------------------Saul---------------
---------------------------------------Griezmann---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------Jackson----------------------------------------

Not too sold on their league Odds.

They may be difficult to take down on Copa and Cl, as ever.


Savic is not starting over Gimenez and that lineup is completely wrong...Koke plays on the left wing. Oliver torres is not ready to start for atletico.

So, its gabi-saul-koke-griezman-vieto and jackson.

It will be interesting to see how well diego combines vietto-griezman, because griezman is a subpar winger and a fantastic SS.
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#150 » by Hellcrooner » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:57 pm

Lakers415 wrote:
Hellcrooner wrote:Oliver will most probabli be starting.
Also the probable pair at CB with Godin will be Savic

---------------------------------------------Oblak----------------------------------------------
-------Juanfran--------------Godin------------------Savic-----------------Filipe------------
-------------------------------Gabi-------------------Koke---------------------------------
-------Oliver------------------------------------------------------------Saul---------------
---------------------------------------Griezmann---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------Jackson----------------------------------------

Not too sold on their league Odds.

They may be difficult to take down on Copa and Cl, as ever.


Savic is not starting over Gimenez and that lineup is completely wrong...Koke plays on the left wing. Oliver torres is not ready to start for atletico.

So, its gabi-saul-koke-griezman-vieto and jackson.

It will be interesting to see how well diego combines vietto-griezman, because griezman is a subpar winger and a fantastic SS.


Simeone has stated that he wants to start turning Koke into a Center Midfielder.
He wont be starting the three of griezmann-vietto-Jackson except if they need to come back from a bad result in a 1st leg of a cup competition or if the rival is very very weak.
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#151 » by Lakers415 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:03 pm

Hellcrooner wrote:
Lakers415 wrote:
Hellcrooner wrote:Oliver will most probabli be starting.
Also the probable pair at CB with Godin will be Savic

---------------------------------------------Oblak----------------------------------------------
-------Juanfran--------------Godin------------------Savic-----------------Filipe------------
-------------------------------Gabi-------------------Koke---------------------------------
-------Oliver------------------------------------------------------------Saul---------------
---------------------------------------Griezmann---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------Jackson----------------------------------------

Not too sold on their league Odds.

They may be difficult to take down on Copa and Cl, as ever.


Savic is not starting over Gimenez and that lineup is completely wrong...Koke plays on the left wing. Oliver torres is not ready to start for atletico.

So, its gabi-saul-koke-griezman-vieto and jackson.

It will be interesting to see how well diego combines vietto-griezman, because griezman is a subpar winger and a fantastic SS.


Simeone has stated that he wants to start turning Koke into a Center Midfielder.
He wont be starting the three of griezmann-vietto-Jackson except if they need to come back from a bad result in a 1st leg of a cup competition or if the rival is very very weak.


So, starting Oliver is better?

Especially on the wings and Saul on the wings????
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#152 » by DD12 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:15 pm

Vietto and Saul would be on the wings. Koke is natural MC anyway.
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#153 » by baggab » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:23 pm

Lakers415 wrote:
Atletico has the best young CB in LA Liga....(or Varane)

Got rid of the useless suarez and team cancer manzukic

Got a viable CF in jackson martinez, one of argentina's best young talent in vietto and brought back felipe luis who was a key player for simeone during their title run is a huge upgrade....

Ideally

You say that atletico has their worse defense in years? Last season, after luis and thibo were both sold and miranda missed a good chunk of the season, they allowed 3 goals more than their title winning season.....29 goals vs 26....

Do you know why Miranda left? He knew his time was up and giminez was going to take his place and form the uruguayan combo of jimenez and godin.... Miranda left for Inter and Serie A, both inferior to atletico and La liga....

Look at their potential bench: Moya,savic,gamez, oliver torres, fernando torres, raul garcia, carrasco, tiago and correa.

When was the last time Rafa won a league title? Back in 2004?

Barcelona overall team is not that good and their depth as well. This season, barcelona will have too many games to play with not enough players to keep them fresh

I like their adds, Oliver will be a 10 year starter if he continuous with this progression, and I loved Carrasco in Monaco (just watched a few games, don't know much bout him). Jackson improves Mandzukic.Vietto will be a top add for future years, not seeing him with Griezzman, maybe in one or two years the french is going to PSG or City, don't know.
Mario (Suarez) was able to do Gabi's job, and when he have had confidence he did it at perfection, but he's not a leader, a big difference with Gabi who is Cholo's extension on the field. And Gabi's last year was really bad, also Tiago, they can't afford be on that phisical level each year, they're old (32,34) and don't have the required talent to survive in a 50 games season. Also Koke was not great on last season. These 3 players can't play again all these games, Cholo is burning them.
Yeah, Gimenez will be (is) a top CB, and has a great connection with Godin, but this season we will see an advanced defense for the type of players added, and they're no great against conterattack offense, and we've seen it too many times (maybe we're talking about the best CB couple against static offense). And here Miranda is a TOP guy. Savic is a normal CB, good header, nothing special.

With Benitez. Never liked the way he played, but the last great team that he managed was Liverpool (Chelsea, Inter experiences for me have *, these locker rooms were like snakes), and with Napoli he have failed this year, obviously. I think Real will compete with us cause I'm sure we're gonna fail too much these first 4 months, and Real have an easy schedule, so i'll be really happy if we're 6-8 points down in Christmas Day.
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#154 » by baggab » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:34 pm

Hellcrooner wrote:Oliver will most probabli be starting.
Also the probable pair at CB with Godin will be Savic

---------------------------------------------Oblak----------------------------------------------
-------Juanfran--------------Godin------------------Savic-----------------Filipe------------
-------------------------------Gabi-------------------Koke---------------------------------
-------Oliver------------------------------------------------------------Saul---------------
---------------------------------------Griezmann---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------Jackson----------------------------------------

Not too sold on their league Odds.

They may be difficult to take down on Copa and Cl, as ever.

Savic x Gimenez.
Cholo's team are ever difficult to beat on playoffs. But with this team they CAN'T play the way that they've been playing last 2 years. Can't wait to see them, this is an interesting offensive line, plus Vietto, Carrasco.
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#155 » by Lakers415 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:57 pm

DD12 wrote:Vietto and Saul would be on the wings. Koke is natural MC anyway.


Wrong again.

Koke is as much as a cm as Iniesta is. Koke cannot play in the pivot only in a 4-3-3 as the left Midfielder or in 4-4-2 as the left midfielder....Which is exactly where Simeone has played koke.....

Saul is a natural cm/dm and will be the future cm of Atletico.

There is a reason why both tiago and gabi plays so many games in the middle of the park for diego and not koke... Even last season, it was saul, not koke that played in the middle.... KOKE has rarely played in the middle for simeone......

Oliver is not a Simeone player, just like how juan mata was not a jose mourinho player. Oliver should reconsider his options because he does have fantastic potential, but under Diego might not be the best progression...(If diego valued oliver, he would never had been loaned out last season). This season, I expect a few sub appearances for Oliver, but not a starting 11 role...

Atletico has all the tools to win la liga this season with a healthy squad and new blood..... Barca has all the reason to fail and with pique's potential suspension their depth gets worse.....
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#156 » by Lakers415 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:58 pm

I can ideally see Vietto as the naturally replacement to Griezman when he gets sold/leave.
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#157 » by baggab » Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:30 pm

Lakers415 wrote:Oliver is not a Simeone player, just like how juan mata was not a jose mourinho player. Oliver should reconsider his options because he does have fantastic potential, but under Diego might not be the best progression...(If diego valued oliver, he would never had been loaned out last season). This season, I expect a few sub appearances for Oliver, but not a starting 11 role...

I agree with Oliver, not a Cholo player, I expect Atletico to keep Oliver and not sell him to a PL top team/Bayern/Juve if he doesn't play a considerable amount of minutes this season during next summer.
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#158 » by Merc_Porto » Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:26 am

I want Oliver back to Porto ;)

If our no.1 target doesn't come...

Lucas Lima.
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#159 » by DD12 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:10 am

Lakers415 wrote:
DD12 wrote:Vietto and Saul would be on the wings. Koke is natural MC anyway.


Wrong again.

Koke is as much as a cm as Iniesta is. Koke cannot play in the pivot only in a 4-3-3 as the left Midfielder or in 4-4-2 as the left midfielder....Which is exactly where Simeone has played koke.....

Saul is a natural cm/dm and will be the future cm of Atletico.

There is a reason why both tiago and gabi plays so many games in the middle of the park for diego and not koke... Even last season, it was saul, not koke that played in the middle.... KOKE has rarely played in the middle for simeone......

Oliver is not a Simeone player, just like how juan mata was not a jose mourinho player. Oliver should reconsider his options because he does have fantastic potential, but under Diego might not be the best progression...(If diego valued oliver, he would never had been loaned out last season). This season, I expect a few sub appearances for Oliver, but not a starting 11 role...

Atletico has all the tools to win la liga this season with a healthy squad and new blood..... Barca has all the reason to fail and with pique's potential suspension their depth gets worse.....


oh dude. you have a lot of things to learn.

Koke is naturally MC. The reason why he played ML because of two reasons;

a) Diego wants to keep midfield busy to control and not to get counters so that players like Koke, Tiago and Gabi becomes three in the middle and Arda used to be on the left, Raul Garcia or adrian lopez was on the right when opponent was attacking. When ATM had the ball, Arda Turan and Adrian or Raul Garcia became AMC so that Koke becomes on the left and Gabi pushes forward.

b) They have never been a team who uses the crosses or wings. They always wanted to utilize from the middle and go in from there. They tried it with Mandzukic but it didn't work. Therefore, Koke was playing on the left but it was just on the paper. In the actual game, he was almost always in the middle.

Saul is naturally a mc but Diego wants to create another Koke from him. He will never become a winger like Bale but he will be another Koke where on the paper he will be seen as left winger but will move to the middle.
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Re: 2015-16 Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread 

Post#160 » by Lakers415 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:51 am

DD12 wrote:
Lakers415 wrote:
DD12 wrote:Vietto and Saul would be on the wings. Koke is natural MC anyway.


Wrong again.

Koke is as much as a cm as Iniesta is. Koke cannot play in the pivot only in a 4-3-3 as the left Midfielder or in 4-4-2 as the left midfielder....Which is exactly where Simeone has played koke.....

Saul is a natural cm/dm and will be the future cm of Atletico.

There is a reason why both tiago and gabi plays so many games in the middle of the park for diego and not koke... Even last season, it was saul, not koke that played in the middle.... KOKE has rarely played in the middle for simeone......

Oliver is not a Simeone player, just like how juan mata was not a jose mourinho player. Oliver should reconsider his options because he does have fantastic potential, but under Diego might not be the best progression...(If diego valued oliver, he would never had been loaned out last season). This season, I expect a few sub appearances for Oliver, but not a starting 11 role...

Atletico has all the tools to win la liga this season with a healthy squad and new blood..... Barca has all the reason to fail and with pique's potential suspension their depth gets worse.....


oh dude. you have a lot of things to learn.

Koke is naturally MC. The reason why he played ML because of two reasons;

a) Diego wants to keep midfield busy to control and not to get counters so that players like Koke, Tiago and Gabi becomes three in the middle and Arda used to be on the left, Raul Garcia or adrian lopez was on the right when opponent was attacking. When ATM had the ball, Arda Turan and Adrian or Raul Garcia became AMC so that Koke becomes on the left and Gabi pushes forward.

b) They have never been a team who uses the crosses or wings. They always wanted to utilize from the middle and go in from there. They tried it with Mandzukic but it didn't work. Therefore, Koke was playing on the left but it was just on the paper. In the actual game, he was almost always in the middle.

Saul is naturally a mc but Diego wants to create another Koke from him. He will never become a winger like Bale but he will be another Koke where on the paper he will be seen as left winger but will move to the middle.




WhoScored.comVerified account
‏@WhoScored
Koke: Played at least 14 more accurate crosses (74) than any other player in La Liga this season


Koke was injured quite a bit last season and only played 28 games....

Koke plays as a left midfielder or left attacker because of his crossing ability and due to the fact he isn't a mobile player like Gabi or tiago or saul... Koke is strong, but mobility is not his strength.

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