Greatest Blazers Ever: Vote for #9: Kersey vs. Lillard runoff

[PDXKnight]

I could be convinced to go with Dame. Lillard backers, why should I change my vote?

I couldn't knock you for going for either of these guys and it came down to the same two for me and I'm sure it did for plenty of others as well. I gave Lillard the nod based on how he has already been a leader on this team and he's doene what he's done with the target of being the second best player on his back. I was initially included to go with Kersey due to longevity but looking over Lersey's stats he really only had 4 or 5 seasons of putting up stats that would compare to Lillard's so that logic goes out the window. Kersey was a phenomenal player but I just don't see him being as much of a leader or as talented as what Lillard has shown us already.

[rasta_marley]

I have said that Lillard shouldn't be included yet and in this runoff between Lillard and Kersey (sorry I missed the initial vote was my duty weekend) I had every intention of voting for Kersey. That being said I do feel like I just can't vote Kersey over Lillard. Other people have talked very eloquently about him in the 1st page so I won't say anymore.

I am going to go .... with..... Damian Lillard!

[DaVoiceMaster]

I'm staying with Kersey.

[James72]

Staying with Dame

[Norm2953]

Five years from now, Dame might be the third best Blazer but for now he has my vote for #9
for he's a difference maker who can decide whether the team wins or loses in their final
possession. Love JK but on the Drexler led teams, he was at best the fourth option after
Clyde, TP and probably Duck.

[Brandon-Clyde]

For the runoff Lillard-rookie of the year and 2 time all star

[JasonStern]

I could be convinced to go with Dame. Lillard backers, why should I change my vote?

http://www.specialolympics.org/Sections/Who_We_Are/Supporters/Damian_Lillard.aspx

[kdawg32086]

I'll jump in and vote for Kersey. Dame is a great player but his career is too short for me to put him this high. Kersey had more longevity (so far) and was a key player on the great early 90s teams.

[Wizenheimer]

I still like Thompson here, but if I have to choose between Lillard and Kersey, I'd vote Kersey

[mojomarc]

I am tempted to say Ha Seung-jin with the reason being because of his fight with Sinanovic. But I can't do that. Greatest ever Blazer board thread, for sure.

I am going with Uncle Cliffy. It is tempting to go with Kersey, but Cliff had a higher peak and was essentially a first option while Jerome was never capable of that.

I'd go with Mychal Thompson ahead of Cliffy

he tops Cliff in just about every single stat as a Blazer and was a much better rebounder. And a better passer. I think he was a better defender too.

and certainly, he was a much better performer in the playoffs

in fact, I'll vote for Thompson here at #9

I could be persuaded with Thompson. But other than the one playoff series against Dallas where Audie Norris hit the game winner (aka "The Walk of Life" game), did he win anything at all as a Blazer? And I don't think he was a better defender, sad as that may be. If Thompson had been even a good defender, we probably would have drafted Jordan over Bowie.

[mojomarc]

If I'm stuck with Kersey vs. Lillard as the choices, it's Lillard all the way. Kersey was a good role player, but he's not a guy you build around, he wasn't clutch, and frankly I think Kersey is massively overrated here. I would have even suggested Buck Williams was far more important to those late 80s/early 90s teams than Kersey was.

[Agenda42]

I'll take Lillard here. He's clearly the better player. You can say that he's only had a few good seasons, but Kersey only had 3 good seasons and he had 11 years with the franchise.

I wouldn't have had Kersey anywhere close to the top ten.

[Masterfully]

I'll take Lillard here. He's clearly the better player. You can say that he's only had a few good seasons, but Kersey only had 3 good seasons and he had 11 years with the franchise.

I wouldn't have had Kersey anywhere close to the top ten.

It might not be as lopsided as you imagine.... yet

Seasons over 6 total WS:
Kersey - 6
Lillard - 2

Career WS/48:
Kersey - .130
Lillard - .138

I mean, I think you're projecting future improvement from Lillard, but based on what he has actually accomplished Kersey has the edge IMO.

[Agenda42]

I mean, I think you're projecting future improvement from Lillard, but based on what he has actually accomplished Kersey has the edge IMO.

I'm not projecting future improvement from Lillard in this case. Lillard has all kinds of hardware from his 3 years. ROY. Two all star appearances. All-NBA 3rd team. Kersey has none of that.

WS is just about the only stat that makes Kersey look good, and it doesn't even make him look that good. PER says he's an average to above average contributor. TS% says he's an inefficient scorer as a starter, and scoring was probably his best attribute. VORP has Lillard's best two years at 5.2 and 3.5; for Kersey his best two years were at 3.6 and 3.4 over an 11 year career.

Basically, I think Kersey is a good but not great role player. I think he was never the best or second best player on a Blazer team. I'm not sure he was even the third best player on Blazer teams; I would generally prefer Buck to Kersey. I would have many names on this list before Kersey's, and I'm mildly baffled that we're even discussing it.

At minimum, I would definitely take these two before Kersey:
Kiki Vandeweghe scored 23 a game on over 50% FG. Not eFG -- that was around 60% -- raw FG%. Crazy efficiency.
Sydney Wicks was a four time all-star 20 and 10 guy.

[Masterfully]

I would have many names on this list before Kersey's, and I'm mildly baffled that we're even discussing it.

At minimum, I would definitely take these two before Kersey:
Kiki Vandeweghe scored 23 a game on over 50% FG. Not eFG -- that was around 60% -- raw FG%. Crazy efficiency.
Sydney Wicks was a four time all-star 20 and 10 guy.

Kersey played on good teams for a long time. Two things that really appeal to me.

I feel like there's a taint hanging over Wicks since he never really improved after his rookie year and his teams never won. Vandeweghe definitely is nice statistically, but it never really translated to team success. His career BPM from 5 seasons in Portland is -0.2.

[zzaj]

I can't vote for Damian because it doesn't make sense to me to vote for current players. I'd still put Rod Strickland in as a sleeper pick. I think he was a better player than Kersey. Longevity doesn't mean as much to me here as it does to others...

If I have to vote Lillard/Kersey?

Kersey by default.

[Agenda42]

Kersey played on good teams for a long time. Two things that really appeal to me.

I feel like there's a taint hanging over Wicks since he never really improved after his rookie year and his teams never won. Vandeweghe definitely is nice statistically, but it never really translated to team success. His career BPM from 5 seasons in Portland is -0.2.

Obviously, one of the points of this kind of exercise is to discuss what matters to different people. For me, I tend to think that players below the elite level win or lose mostly based on teammate luck. For example, Drexler is a good enough player that he can largely make his own luck -- even if the team is bad around him to begin with, he's good enough to build a team around. Kersey is a guy who is fortunate to have been playing on Drexler's team. Sidney Wicks was unfortunate to have left the Blazers just before Walton became Walton.

[JasonStern]

I can't vote for Damian because it doesn't make sense to me to vote for current players.

so if we were voting for greatest Cavaliers, LeBron wouldn't be in your top ten? you really believe Duncan isn't a top ten Spur? what sense does that make?

[Norm2953]

It's nuts to not consider a current player on the team for that would leave out guys like
Wes Matthews who had 5 very solid seasons in Portland and Batum who had some real
solid moments in his 7 seasons. There are players with their numbers hanging in the
rafters that have not been mentioned like Larry Steele and Lloyd Neal who the team
though so high of (they stupidly traded Moses Malone away) who had the same
type of career as Kersey.

It seems clear to me Portland has only had 6-7 really good players in their team history.
We've had some good players like Geoff Petrie, Mychal Thompson, Kersey, Duck, Strickland,
Williams, Cliff Robinson, Damon, Sabas, etc but only a couple of players mentioned as the
top players at their position (Bill, Clyde, B-Roy) and injuries killed the careers of guys
who could have made the list for Portland has certainly been cursed with their bigs
starting with Bill Smith in 1972, Walton, Bowie, GO, etc.

[Moonbeam]

Final tally:

Damian Lillard (9): JasonStern, Norm2953, Oden2, James72, rasta_marley, Norm2953, Brandon-Clyde, mojomarc, Agenda42

Jerome Kersey (8): Soulyss, Masterfully, a_sensei, DaVoiceMaster, Moonbeam, kdawg32086, Wizenheimer, zzaj

Lillard takes 9 votes to claim place #9!