Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[thamadkant]

The NBA has become the hardest league by far to build a championship team. The main reason is because of lack of elite talent. There are maybe only a handful of players in the league that are championship building players. In baseball there is so much elite talent. Even in football there is lots of elite talent. I want anyone on this board to name me one player the Suns could realistically acquire in a trade that will catapult them to a championship contender because I do not see any. The only players I put on that level are Lebron, Curry, Durant, Harden, and the Spurs team. There is no one else.

Then I look at next year's free agency and I see no one either besides Durant and I doubt he would even consider the Suns. And Horford? No chance in hell does he make the Suns a championship contender.

Honestly, who can the Suns acquire? Maybe the Mavericks want to rebuild and would trade Dirk to the Suns for Markieff and draft picks. Then Dirk could have a 2011 flashback and put on that kind of performance. I put the chances of that scenario happening at about 0.000000001%.

Yes, if you are an NBA fan, you are better served as a fan to hope for a competitive fun team to watch for entertainment purposes, because unless you have a surefire superstar you will likely not win a championship. Now the tankers will say "EXACTLY, we need to tank FOR that reason" but 95% of the time, tanking doesn't work, and then you have nothing fun to watch for years. Last year sucked. No one disagrees about that. I think we will be fun to watch this year unless we have major injuries. We may be just on the verge of the playoffs, but we are young and most all of our players will only get better and not decline.

Championship is the ultimate goal for team fans.

And we all know it's a very difficult thing to achieve, 29 other NBA teams don't win the ring every season.

But I don't like the isolation of the "tankers" as a group in the "wrong".

Some fans simply want to have HOPE.
Heck some fans just want a likeable team with likeable players.

And some fans simply want to watch youn players develop in front of them which relates to the first point ... HOPE.

Without hope of a winning team... There's no point to watch. Might as well give up.



Having superstar players or high talent players... Doesn't guarantee a championship. But it's a heck of a lot better than what the Suns had last season and in the last 5 years.

All a team can do is put a team that gives fans HOPE and that's enough to get the fans to have something to look forward to.

[King4Day]

Kings won't trade Cousins after moronically trading picks to clear cap space. They need to see how this season goes. We would def need to trade at least Kieff, Knight (maybe they prefer Bledsoe), Len, and many picks.

[King4Day]

I can't wait for there to be something to talk about again because all I'm reading now is fighting amongst Suns fans. This is a yearly occurrence since there's just nothing at all to discuss.

[King4Day]

Side note too. And this isn't intended to knock the posters who do it because I know that even larger posts can have a ton of great content in them.

I suggest keeping posts not more than a paragraph or two long. I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees a super long post and just skips over it.

(see! nothing to discuss!)

[RunDogGun]

I can't wait for there to be something to talk about again because all I'm reading now is fighting amongst Suns fans. This is a yearly occurrence since there's just nothing at all to discuss.

It seems to come up when the losing on purpose strategy comes into play.

[NavLDO]

The NBA has become the hardest league by far to build a championship team. The main reason is because of lack of elite talent. There are maybe only a handful of players in the league that are championship building players. In baseball there is so much elite talent. Even in football there is lots of elite talent. I want anyone on this board to name me one player the Suns could realistically acquire in a trade that will catapult them to a championship contender because I do not see any. The only players I put on that level are Lebron, Curry, Durant, Harden, and the Spurs team. There is no one else.

Then I look at next year's free agency and I see no one either besides Durant and I doubt he would even consider the Suns. And Horford? No chance in hell does he make the Suns a championship contender.

Honestly, who can the Suns acquire? Maybe the Mavericks want to rebuild and would trade Dirk to the Suns for Markieff and draft picks. Then Dirk could have a 2011 flashback and put on that kind of performance. I put the chances of that scenario happening at about 0.000000001%.

Yes, if you are an NBA fan, you are better served as a fan to hope for a competitive fun team to watch for entertainment purposes, because unless you have a surefire superstar you will likely not win a championship. Now the tankers will say "EXACTLY, we need to tank FOR that reason" but 95% of the time, tanking doesn't work, and then you have nothing fun to watch for years. Last year sucked. No one disagrees about that. I think we will be fun to watch this year unless we have major injuries. We may be just on the verge of the playoffs, but we are young and most all of our players will only get better and not decline.

Championship is the ultimate goal for team fans.

And we all know it's a very difficult thing to achieve, 29 other NBA teams don't win the ring every season.

But I don't like the isolation of the "tankers" as a group in the "wrong".

Some fans simply want to have HOPE.
Heck some fans just want a likeable team with likeable players.

And some fans simply want to watch youn players develop in front of them which relates to the first point ... HOPE.

Without hope of a winning team... There's no point to watch. Might as well give up.

Having superstar players or high talent players... Doesn't guarantee a championship. But it's a heck of a lot better than what the Suns had last season and in the last 5 years.

All a team can do is put a team that gives fans HOPE and that's enough to get the fans to have something to look forward to.

And we already tanked one year, and got Len. And while some will point out that "well, we drafted 5th, not 1st or 2nd". That's true, but we still ended up with arguably, the top prospect, or at worst, in the top 3, even all the way down at 5.

So we do have our 'budding star', but since he's on the Suns, all of a sudden, he's not good enough? Why isn't he included when discussing Wiggins, Griffin, etc.??

And while taken later in the draft, we have Warren and Booker that may very well end up as "All-NBA" talent. Why not HOPE in these guys? Can you, or anyone else, assure me that they cannot turnout to be as good as Wiggins, Parker, or Embiid?? Or Towns, Russell, or Okafor??

I think what you are describing is HOPE in a 'hyped prospect', but just because Booker or Warren weren't tabbed a being a top 3 talent in the draft, doesn't mean they won't be.

Let's go back to 2011. Any thoughts that Irving, D. Williams, or Kanter are better than Klay Thompson, selected 11th, or Kawhi Leonard selected 15th?

2010--Is Wall THAT much better than Bledsoe, selected 18th? Evan Turner, maybe?

2012--MKG selected 2nd overall. Better than Drummond selected 9th?

Yes, your chances are better, but even tanking, there are no guarantees; just ask the NYK. How'd that work out? They got Porzingis, who may turnout to be the best, but right now, do you BELIEVE he will be? One of the 'big 3" in Towns, Okafor, or Russell, right? Well, the NYK tanked, and was 'left out in the cold'.

Many here would prefer to 'bank' on FA or Trades, and a late lotto draft pick, and see a competitive team, than end up tanking for MAYBE a top 2 or 3 spot, that MAY turnout to be a great player in what, 3 to 4 years?

I don't mind that some would like to go that route, so long as those understand why fans like myself would rather put trust in our GM and HC to 'make the magic happen' with whatever they decide to put together as a team.

[bwgood77]

Yes, if you are an NBA fan, you are better served as a fan to hope for a competitive fun team to watch for entertainment purposes, because unless you have a surefire superstar you will likely not win a championship. Now the tankers will say "EXACTLY, we need to tank FOR that reason" but 95% of the time, tanking doesn't work, and then you have nothing fun to watch for years. Last year sucked. No one disagrees about that. I think we will be fun to watch this year unless we have major injuries. We may be just on the verge of the playoffs, but we are young and most all of our players will only get better and not decline.

Championship is the ultimate goal for team fans.

And we all know it's a very difficult thing to achieve, 29 other NBA teams don't win the ring every season.

But I don't like the isolation of the "tankers" as a group in the "wrong".

Some fans simply want to have HOPE.
Heck some fans just want a likeable team with likeable players.

And some fans simply want to watch youn players develop in front of them which relates to the first point ... HOPE.

Without hope of a winning team... There's no point to watch. Might as well give up.

Having superstar players or high talent players... Doesn't guarantee a championship. But it's a heck of a lot better than what the Suns had last season and in the last 5 years.

All a team can do is put a team that gives fans HOPE and that's enough to get the fans to have something to look forward to.

And we already tanked one year, and got Len. And while some will point out that "well, we drafted 5th, not 1st or 2nd". That's true, but we still ended up with arguably, the top prospect, or at worst, in the top 3, even all the way down at 5.

So we do have our 'budding star', but since he's on the Suns, all of a sudden, he's not good enough? Why isn't he included when discussing Wiggins, Griffin, etc.??

And while taken later in the draft, we have Warren and Booker that may very well end up as "All-NBA" talent. Why not HOPE in these guys? Can you, or anyone else, assure me that they cannot turnout to be as good as Wiggins, Parker, or Embiid?? Or Towns, Russell, or Okafor??

I think what you are describing is HOPE in a 'hyped prospect', but just because Booker or Warren weren't tabbed a being a top 3 talent in the draft, doesn't mean they won't be.

Let's go back to 2011. Any thoughts that Irving, D. Williams, or Kanter are better than Klay Thompson, selected 11th, or Kawhi Leonard selected 15th?

2010--Is Wall THAT much better than Bledsoe, selected 18th? Evan Turner, maybe?

2012--MKG selected 2nd overall. Better than Drummond selected 9th?

Yes, your chances are better, but even tanking, there are no guarantees; just ask the NYK. How'd that work out? They got Porzingis, who may turnout to be the best, but right now, do you BELIEVE he will be? One of the 'big 3" in Towns, Okafor, or Russell, right? Well, the NYK tanked, and was 'left out in the cold'.

Many here would prefer to 'bank' on FA or Trades, and a late lotto draft pick, and see a competitive team, than end up tanking for MAYBE a top 2 or 3 spot, that MAY turnout to be a great player in what, 3 to 4 years?

I don't mind that some would like to go that route, so long as those understand why fans like myself would rather put trust in our GM and HC to 'make the magic happen' with whatever they decide to put together as a team.

But Rudy Gobert is better. But you only get great players at 1-3. I contradict myself in different arguments.

[Frank Lee]

yes, Wall is that much better than Bledsoe.

[Saberestar]

The Suns haven't released a preseason schedule. Via other teams, these games are known: 10/7 v. SAC, 10/9 v. UTA, 10/13 v. HOU, 10/20 at SA.

Via Paul Coro.

[Jdiddy701]

Side note too. And this isn't intended to knock the posters who do it because I know that even larger posts can have a ton of great content in them.

I suggest keeping posts not more than a paragraph or two long. I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees a super long post and just skips over it.

(see! nothing to discuss!)

You're my hero. I thought I was the only one. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Sunsdeuce]

yes, Wall is that much better than Bledsoe.

Someone said wall isn't better than Bledsoe? What the?

[bwgood77]

yes, Wall is that much better than Bledsoe.

Someone said wall isn't better than Bledsoe? What the?

No, I think Frank was talking to himself.

[AtheJ415]

3 way:

Markieff to Detroit
Jennings + a 1st and 2nd to NYK
Porzingis to Phoenix

Salary Filler as needed.

[bigfoot]

yes, Wall is that much better than Bledsoe.

Actually their per 36 minute numbers are very, very similar. Bledsoe is a better rebounder and shooter while Wall has more assists. Remember Bledsoe was stuck behind CP3 while Wall was handed the keys to the car as a rookie, so career stats are hard to compare this early in their careers. Wall actually has 4000 minutes more playing time than Bledsoe (or roughly 110 games at 36 minutes per game).

Edit: Not to forget ... Wall plays in the diluted Eastern conference and Bledose plays in the very tough Western conference.

[saintEscaton]

3 way:

Markieff to Detroit
Jennings + a 1st and 2nd to NYK
Porzingis to Phoenix

Salary Filler as needed.

So since the Zen Master "blatantly hinted that Zingis could turn out to be the next Shawn Bradley his trade value suddenly plummets? Its almost unprecedented for a Top 5 pick to be dealt even before his rookie season starts unless its a rare blockbuster deal. If the Knicks really wanted any of this trash they would have pulled the trigger on draft night and likely gotten a better return.

[DirtyDez]

yes, Wall is that much better than Bledsoe.

Someone said wall isn't better than Bledsoe? What the?

I think they're similar in ways but Wall has always been a natural PG. I think that's something you either have or don't.

[saintEscaton]

Championship is the ultimate goal for team fans.

And we all know it's a very difficult thing to achieve, 29 other NBA teams don't win the ring every season.

But I don't like the isolation of the "tankers" as a group in the "wrong".

Some fans simply want to have HOPE.
Heck some fans just want a likeable team with likeable players.

And some fans simply want to watch youn players develop in front of them which relates to the first point ... HOPE.

Without hope of a winning team... There's no point to watch. Might as well give up.

Having superstar players or high talent players... Doesn't guarantee a championship. But it's a heck of a lot better than what the Suns had last season and in the last 5 years.

All a team can do is put a team that gives fans HOPE and that's enough to get the fans to have something to look forward to.

And we already tanked one year, and got Len. And while some will point out that "well, we drafted 5th, not 1st or 2nd". That's true, but we still ended up with arguably, the top prospect, or at worst, in the top 3, even all the way down at 5.

So we do have our 'budding star', but since he's on the Suns, all of a sudden, he's not good enough? Why isn't he included when discussing Wiggins, Griffin, etc.??

And while taken later in the draft, we have Warren and Booker that may very well end up as "All-NBA" talent. Why not HOPE in these guys? Can you, or anyone else, assure me that they cannot turnout to be as good as Wiggins, Parker, or Embiid?? Or Towns, Russell, or Okafor??

I think what you are describing is HOPE in a 'hyped prospect', but just because Booker or Warren weren't tabbed a being a top 3 talent in the draft, doesn't mean they won't be.

Let's go back to 2011. Any thoughts that Irving, D. Williams, or Kanter are better than Klay Thompson, selected 11th, or Kawhi Leonard selected 15th?

2010--Is Wall THAT much better than Bledsoe, selected 18th? Evan Turner, maybe?

2012--MKG selected 2nd overall. Better than Drummond selected 9th?

Yes, your chances are better, but even tanking, there are no guarantees; just ask the NYK. How'd that work out? They got Porzingis, who may turnout to be the best, but right now, do you BELIEVE he will be? One of the 'big 3" in Towns, Okafor, or Russell, right? Well, the NYK tanked, and was 'left out in the cold'.

Many here would prefer to 'bank' on FA or Trades, and a late lotto draft pick, and see a competitive team, than end up tanking for MAYBE a top 2 or 3 spot, that MAY turnout to be a great player in what, 3 to 4 years?

I don't mind that some would like to go that route, so long as those understand why fans like myself would rather put trust in our GM and HC to 'make the magic happen' with whatever they decide to put together as a team.

But Rudy Gobert is better. But you only get great players at 1-3. I contradict myself in different arguments.

Thank god we didn't take Noel.

[bwgood77]

I'll take Len over Noel.

[m1chal]

Grantland launched a Morris twins board game. Enjoy

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-game-of-life-morris-twins-edition/?ex_cid=GrantlandFB

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Fo sho.