State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15)

[Dirk]

Will Dwight Powell get meaningful minutes for Canada?

[Mattd97]

Will Dwight Powell get meaningful minutes for Canada?

he did last year

[mojo13]

With Hanlan v Scrubb doesn't it really depend on what the coaches want out of a back-up PG? I am not sure Hanlan has shown he is a true PG capable of effectively running a team like this. Someone you can trust with the ball to get the team into an offense and distribute. When has Hanlan shown he can do that? Yes he is probably a more dynamic scorer than Scrubb (who isn't bad himself). Just because Hanlan was drafted doesn't mean he is the better player, just that someone sees higher potential in him. I am not advocating one way or the other, but assume the coaches know better than any of us.

What if Cojo gets hurt and one of these guys needs to lead the team? Perhaps Scrub is a wiser choice, perhaps Scrubb fills the role better. Keep in mind Scrubb just landed his first pro contract with AEK. A first contract with top division Greek team is fairly impressive. Usually guys have to start out for a year or two in a lesser league/division. Heslip was in the Adriatic league last year. Mullins is off to Germany. Hanlan Lithuania.

[mojo13]

Will Dwight Powell get meaningful minutes for Canada?

he did last year

it is quite unknown at this point what Powell's role will be. PF is our deepest position with Bennett, Nicholson, Ejim (if he makes it) and even KO could play PF.
Dwight looks like a good fit for FIBA ball and has improved over the last year. And with something like 10 games in 10 days the entire team is going to need to play meaningful minutes.
Still he may be the 4th or 5th big on the depth chart. There is even a chance Powell could be cut over someone like Ejim.

[Dirk]

Will Dwight Powell get meaningful minutes for Canada?

he did last year

it is quite unknown at this point what Powell's role will be. PF is our deepest position with Bennett, Nicholson, Ejim (if he makes it) and even KO could play PF.
Dwight looks like a good fit for FIBA ball and has improved over the last year. And with something like 10 games in 10 days the entire team is going to need to play meaningful minutes.
Still he may be the 4th or 5th big on the depth chart. There is even a chance Powell could be cut over someone like Ejim.

Those guys are good at international level?

[frumble]

With Hanlan v Scrubb doesn't it really depend on what the coaches want out of a back-up PG? I am not sure Hanlan has shown he is a true PG capable of effectively running a team like this. Someone you can trust with the ball to get the team into an offense and distribute. When has Hanlan shown he can do that? Yes he is probably a more dynamic scorer than Scrubb (who isn't bad himself). Just because Hanlan was drafted doesn't mean he is the better player, just that someone sees higher potential in him. I am not advocating one way or the other, but assume the coaches know better than any of us.

What if Cojo gets hurt and one of these guys needs to lead the team? Perhaps Scrub is a wiser choice, perhaps Scrubb fills the role better. Keep in mind Scrubb just landed his first pro contract with AEK. A first contract with top division Greek team is fairly impressive. Usually guys have to start out for a year or two in a lesser league/division. Heslip was in the Adriatic league last year. Mullins is off to Germany. Hanlan Lithuania.

I agree that who can play PG should be the primary criterion, but has Scrubb played any more PG than Hanlan? I didn't follow Carleton that closely, but I thought Scrubb played SG for them? Yes, Hanlan played SG for BC, but he has played PG for Canada. He backed up Pangos at point in both 2010 and 2011.

I am not saying that a few minutes a game at point 5 years ago makes him a better PG. I just don't know who has more experience at point, or who has better PG skills. All else equal, I think we would have better off with an experienced PG backing up Joseph, leaving Hanlan, Scrubb, and English to battle it out for the last guard spot behind Stauskas and Heslip.

[mojo13]

he did last year

it is quite unknown at this point what Powell's role will be. PF is our deepest position with Bennett, Nicholson, Ejim (if he makes it) and even KO could play PF.
Dwight looks like a good fit for FIBA ball and has improved over the last year. And with something like 10 games in 10 days the entire team is going to need to play meaningful minutes.
Still he may be the 4th or 5th big on the depth chart. There is even a chance Powell could be cut over someone like Ejim.

Those guys are good at international level?

Actually yes. Nicholson has been one of Canada's better scorers over the last few years of FIBA ball. He has constantly been able to score from inside and out. On a team historically lacking decent offense he has been valuable. His defense has been pretty bad though and rebounding pretty average. Perhaps with the added weapons we have now his offensive role is not need as much, but he has proven himself relative to most other guys on the team.

Bennett played quite well at the PanAms in July, and was arguably Canada's best player on a "B" team that was missing 6 or 7 of the better players. Coach Triano has talked highly of Bennett much of the summer. Powell could be better than both of them - its just tough to tell at this point. Everyone is so young and newer to the SMNT. As mentioned above Powell played pretty good on the Exhibition tour through Europe last year and seems to have gotten meaningfully better in the last year.

Keep in mind, the international level is a serious step down from the NBA. Games at the regional qualifier level certainly can be dominated by marginal NBA talents. Some of the biggest names of the last couple FIBA Americas have been the likes of Gustavo Ayon, Greivis Vasquez, Carlos Arroyo, Rendaldo Balkman, Luis Scola, Fancisco Garcia, JJ Barea, Leandro Barbosa etc.

[Undefeated]

Utah ran the same Motion (Strong) offense during Summer League that the SMNT currently runs, so Hanlan has some familiarity with the reads/actions.

[tout court]

Tell me more about this motion offence. I can only see pick-and-roll action that seems to have a few options: 1) screener rolls hard to front of rim and possibly gets ball if his defender traps the guard and the weak-side help is late; 2) screener draws weak-side defender and shooter buried in corner on strong side gets ball; 3) guard turns corner on pick-and-roll action, and gets in lane where he can draw-and-kick or finish or ... What other action ensues after this sequence, if I'm seeing that correctly? And if I am, then Phil Jackson was right in his recent comments about the state of offence.

Sweet baby Jesus I still don't understand why people want Carl English on this team. Even when it is not explicitly stated any discussion about whether Hanlan or Scrubb makes the team presupposes a spot for English. How about keeping both and moving Hanlan off the ball, though he did play PG at BC this year, and cutting English?

[Mattd97]

Tell me more about this motion offence. I can only see pick-and-roll action that seems to have a few options: 1) screener rolls hard to front of rim and possibly gets ball if his defender traps the guard and the weak-side help is late; 2) screener draws weak-side defender and shooter buried in corner on strong side gets ball; 3) guard turns corner on pick-and-roll action, and gets in lane where he can draw-and-kick or finish or ... What other action ensues after this sequence, if I'm seeing that correctly? And if I am, then Phil Jackson was right in his recent comments about the state of offence.

Sweet baby Jesus I still don't understand why people want Carl English on this team. Even when it is not explicitly stated any discussion about whether Hanlan or Scrubb makes the team presupposes a spot for English. How about keeping both and moving Hanlan off the ball, though he did play PG at BC this year, and cutting English?

probably cause one is one our few fiba veterans and plays in high level europe and has for a decade, while the other just played 5 years in the cis

[Undefeated]

Tell me more about this motion offence. I can only see pick-and-roll action that seems to have a few options: 1) screener rolls hard to front of rim and possibly gets ball if his defender traps the guard and the weak-side help is late; 2) screener draws weak-side defender and shooter buried in corner on strong side gets ball; 3) guard turns corner on pick-and-roll action, and gets in lane where he can draw-and-kick or finish or ... What other action ensues after this sequence, if I'm seeing that correctly? And if I am, then Phil Jackson was right in his recent comments about the state of offence.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXmBTyMh1Oo[/youtube]

Diagram: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o6phya1a9tckagy/Canada%20SMNT%20Playbook.pdf?dl=0

It's the same offense that Quin Snyder and Pop runs:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N81SiNjFTzs[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w59D-JQTlC8[/youtube]

[tout court]

Thanks for the clip, UD.

My lasting memory of the Jazz playing in Vegas was Hanlan buried in the corner as high-screen-and-roll action was run from every conceivable angle and distance on the floor. But I probably need to play closer attention.

If someone can tell me that English is KG or Charles Oakley in the dressing room I might be convinced to keep him as the 12th man. Perhaps he had a heroic game against the DR or some such opponent in 2009, but I can remember an earlier exhibition game against New Zealand at the Ricoh Coliseum during Leo's era where Kirk Penney completely outplayed him. Not to mention that he turns it over at a clip that makes Jeremy Lin look like Bob Cousy.

[tout court]

Thanks for the clip, UD.

My lasting memory of the Jazz playing in Vegas was Hanlan buried in the corner as high-screen-and-roll action was run from every conceivable angle and distance on the floor. But I probably need to play closer attention.

If someone can tell me that English is KG or Charles Oakley in the dressing room I might be convinced to keep him as the 12th man. Perhaps he had a heroic game against the DR or some such opponent in 2009, but I can remember an earlier exhibition game against New Zealand at the Ricoh Coliseum during Leo's era where Kirk Penney completely outplayed him. Not to mention that he turns it over at a clip that makes Jeremy Lin look like Bob Cousy.

[frumble]

Zagsblog and Grange reporting that Murray likely out, and that stumbling block has been UK rather than NCAA.

In any case, no surprise.

Simplifies things at guard, and basically it is Hanlan, Scrubb, and English battling for two spots, including the back-up PG spot.

[WhatYaWant]

Tell me more about this motion offence. I can only see pick-and-roll action that seems to have a few options: 1) screener rolls hard to front of rim and possibly gets ball if his defender traps the guard and the weak-side help is late; 2) screener draws weak-side defender and shooter buried in corner on strong side gets ball; 3) guard turns corner on pick-and-roll action, and gets in lane where he can draw-and-kick or finish or ... What other action ensues after this sequence, if I'm seeing that correctly? And if I am, then Phil Jackson was right in his recent comments about the state of offence.

Sweet baby Jesus I still don't understand why people want Carl English on this team. Even when it is not explicitly stated any discussion about whether Hanlan or Scrubb makes the team presupposes a spot for English. How about keeping both and moving Hanlan off the ball, though he did play PG at BC this year, and cutting English?

probably cause one is one our few fiba veterans and plays in high level europe and has for a decade, while the other just played 5 years in the cis

Scrubb is a much better player than English

[mojo13]

Tell me more about this motion offence. I can only see pick-and-roll action that seems to have a few options: 1) screener rolls hard to front of rim and possibly gets ball if his defender traps the guard and the weak-side help is late; 2) screener draws weak-side defender and shooter buried in corner on strong side gets ball; 3) guard turns corner on pick-and-roll action, and gets in lane where he can draw-and-kick or finish or ... What other action ensues after this sequence, if I'm seeing that correctly? And if I am, then Phil Jackson was right in his recent comments about the state of offence.

Sweet baby Jesus I still don't understand why people want Carl English on this team. Even when it is not explicitly stated any discussion about whether Hanlan or Scrubb makes the team presupposes a spot for English. How about keeping both and moving Hanlan off the ball, though he did play PG at BC this year, and cutting English?

I think it is a valid question and I wouldn't be too surprised if that is the end result, but I doubt it.
I think what you are missing is the value of guys with significant FIBA experience who understand the difference between FIBA ball and NCAA/NBA ball. It is a very different game that many people here don't understand. Go look at the quotes from Triano and Nash over the last year. Over and over they comment on how different the game is, that guys need time to adjust and vets are needed around to help the younger guys with the transition. That they now hope their youth and athletisim can help overcome their lack of FIBA experience. In the 2011 FIBA Americas it was painfully obvious to watch guys like Nicholson and Tristan Thompson get extremely frustrated with the play style and routinely get toyed with by some of the wily FIBA vets like Scola.

Scrubb or Hanlan are not obviously better players right now than English - it seems unsubstantiated for anyone to declare they are. They are young and full of potential, but right now Scrubb and Hanlan are completely unproven at the professional game and the SMNT level. English has a decade long record at the highest levels of professional ball outside the NBA. He is Canada's most experienced vet of the international game - he started and put up pretty good stats in the top Greek league this year with AEK. You can't just brush this off as meaningless. Yes, his stats for the last couple runs with Team Canada have been inefficient, but those teams were pretty bad, had very limited offensive talent and he was asked to shoulder a heavy load scoring.

I think for this tournament, English's FIBA experience, is important enough to clearly warrant a spot on the team over Hanlan or Scrubb.

[mojo13]

One another note the Tuto Marchand cup kicks off Sunday with Canada v Argentina. Should be interesting as ARG has been training far longer and has had a number of warm up games already. Any broadcast information out there?
Livebasketball.tv has it (and the FIBA Amercias) so I may go that route.

[Dread-Eye]

Four day tournament against:

Argentina
Brazil
Dominican Republic
Puerto Rico

will be a great warm-up - http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/event/p/sID/11750/_/2015_Tuto_Marchand_Cup_Final_Round/schedule.html

Assuming by the end of this tournament they will make the final roster cuts.

[frumble]

I think it would have made sense to make the cuts after Marchand, but it seems they will be making them tomorrow, when they break camp.

I guess there may be some value in having the final team play/practice together as a unit, and in avoiding wasting a player's time by having him fly to PR and then get cut.

Still, I think that might be outweighed by the benefits of having more time to look at the guys competing for spots. In terms of the vets, I think staff has a pretty good idea of what they can do. But for the younger guys (e.g., Hanlan and Scrubb), having them play at Marchand would have been a good opportunity to see how they do in FIBA ball, how they play with rest of team, etc.


I see that TSN schedule for FIBAs is out (at least for first few days). Looks like they are showing Canada's games plus a few non-Canada games.

[tout court]

Blind, raging hate for English's game is obviously impairing my ability to to be 'objective'.

If a player with significant FIBA experience is a necessity--and I'm not sure it is since Nicholson has apparently not yet learned how the FIBA game is different despite having coaches and teammates with FIBA experience--then there can't be room for both Doornekamp and English, can there?