Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

Post #221 » by **bwgood77** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:32 pm

Wall is clearly better than Bledsoe and a premier player in this league. I don't think this is worth much of a discussion.

pidi · Post #222 » by **pidi** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:04 pm

I still would like to see this Team playing a whole season together without this whole Drama. I think players like bledsoe still can develope. Not like wall but something near...

rottenbanana36 · Post #223 » by **rottenbanana36** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:43 pm

IMO there's no question that John Wall is the better player but I think some people have underestimated the ability that Bledsoe has. Last year was lost in turmoil, not only the regular season but during the offseason as well. I have no issue with putting faith and belief in players that have tons of talent and incredible work ethics such as Bledsoe and Knight. It's much easier for me personally to believe that those players will get better than players who have talent but are lazy or don't work their hardest. I really think we see a big jump from both Knight and Bledsoe this year with an entire offseason under their belt to work together. The drama that surrounded the team last year makes it almost impossible for anybody to get better. Get the Kieff situation sorted out sooner than later and get going on the season. If McDonouogh, Sarver and Babby show up in Philadelphia, extend the olive branch and apologize for how they handled the situation I do believe that this situation can be mended. I have faith in McD but it seems that his biggest downfall is his hard headed mentality of my way or the highway (a la Danny Ainge). A little humility can go a long way in not having another lost season.

Djedefre · Post #224 » by **Djedefre** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:06 pm

Kieff for Vonleh? Would you do it and why/why not.

plonden · Post #225 » by **plonden** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:20 pm

Djedefre wrote:Kieff for Vonleh? Would you do it and why/why not.

I would not do that deal. Vonleh is too unproven at this point in his career. Markieff is a young, proven starter-level talent on an excellent contract. We obviously know that he's a malcontent and a negative force in the locker room. But he is valuable on the basketball court against NBA-level talent. Vonleh is all potential. I'm also concerned that Vonleh was jettisoned from Charlotte after only playing 259 minutes as a rookie. I understand that Charlotte--for some reason--is desperately trying to win now and make the playoffs. But it seems odd that a team would give up on a lottery pick (9th overall) that quickly. It reminds me a bit of Thomas Robinson, interestingly one of the Morrii's best friends at KU. Robinson was selected fifth overall in the 2012 NBA Draft, and he was legitimately being talked about as a possibility to be drafted second overall, after Anthony Davis. But at this point, he's now on his fifth NBA team (SAC, HOU, POR, PHI, BKN). Is Vonleh the next Thomas Robinson? Probably not. But he's got a lot to prove at this point in his career.

saintEscaton · Post #226 » by **saintEscaton** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:47 pm

Djedefre wrote:Kieff for Vonleh? Would you do it and why/why not.

In a heartbeat. But maybe I'm just being a Hoosier homer. Vonleh was MJ's only good pick imo in recent memory other than MKG. He was an idiot for dealing him away for what looks to be a one season rental of Batum who's cosmpolitan predilection will likely take him north of the border. Charlotte also signed Jason Maxiell last offseason and Vonleh as a result got pushed to the end of the bench and hardly got any burn even though he's still raw as hell. I think he has Ibakaesque upside and he has already flashed three point range in his game. Anyways Portlandis in rebuild mode so they wouldn't do it. He's there to stay in Rip City

Damkac · Post #227 » by **Damkac** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:57 pm

letsgosuns wrote:When you go to basketball reference and average Bledsoe's career numbers with the Suns as a starter and compare them to John Wall's career numbers, they are virtually identical across the board, except for assists. Now assists are a huge deal and that is what separates Wall from Bledsoe. Wall legitimately averaged 10.0 assists last season and that is really hard to do. That is the deal breaker why you would have to give Wall the nod over Bledsoe right now. However, I would not buy the argument that Wall has led his team to the playoffs multiple times and is a two time all star because he plays in the East. We all know the East is a complete joke compared to the West. Bledsoe would be in all star in the East too and the Suns would have been in the playoffs the past couple of years had they played in the East. Either way, I like both Bledsoe and Wall but I think neither is a superstar and they need a superstar to play with to go to the next level.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2015&p1=bledser01&y2=2015&p2=walljo01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=
It looks like Bledsoe is just John Wall without playmaking ability (and a little bit better shooting and rebounding). I agree with most here that Wall is no doubt a better player but not a superstar who can lead his team to championship.

pidi wrote:I still would like to see this Team playing a whole season together without this whole Drama. I think players like bledsoe still can develope. Not like wall but something near...

Exactly my thoughts.

tdjm · Post #228 » by **tdjm** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:57 pm

Djedefre wrote:Kieff for Vonleh? Would you do it and why/why not.

I'm not suuuper high on Vonleh like a lot of the people I see on this forum (he does have the potential to be good, but I think his upside is overstated and I'm pessimistic about his chance of reaching that upside), but that is the type of trade I'd like to pursue. Best case scenario winds up with Keef being dealt for a young, project type PF. A much better outcome in my mind than trading for one of the completely and utterly bland "established" PFs (please jesus no Taj Gibson or any trade like that, I'll be so disappointed).

thamadkant · Post #229 » by **thamadkant** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:46 pm

plonden wrote:
Djedefre wrote:Kieff for Vonleh? Would you do it and why/why not.

I would not do that deal. Vonleh is too unproven at this point in his career. Markieff is a young, proven starter-level talent on an excellent contract. We obviously know that he's a malcontent and a negative force in the locker room. But he is valuable on the basketball court against NBA-level talent. Vonleh is all potential. I'm also concerned that Vonleh was jettisoned from Charlotte after only playing 259 minutes as a rookie. I understand that Charlotte--for some reason--is desperately trying to win now and make the playoffs. But it seems odd that a team would give up on a lottery pick (9th overall) that quickly. It reminds me a bit of Thomas Robinson, interestingly one of the Morrii's best friends at KU. Robinson was selected fifth overall in the 2012 NBA Draft, and he was legitimately being talked about as a possibility to be drafted second overall, after Anthony Davis. But at this point, he's now on his fifth NBA team (SAC, HOU, POR, PHI, BKN). Is Vonleh the next Thomas Robinson? Probably not. But he's got a lot to prove at this point in his career.

Vonleh's ceiling and age makes his value equal or even greater than Markief's.

I would trade Markieff for Vonleh in a heartbeat, and so will McD if it's on the table.

With minutes and development he could be a 15/8/1.5 player within the next 2-3 seasons.

Flying Colors · Post #230 » by **Flying Colors** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:03 pm

a markieff deal for Vonleh? i would take that deal 10 times out of 10

Frank Lee · Post #231 » by **Frank Lee** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:16 pm

Portland is invested in Ed Davis... Why would they want Kwief?

Saberestar · Post #232 » by **Saberestar** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:06 pm

In addition to bringing Terry back, the Rockets are still in talks with second-round pick Montrezl Harrell.

Rich Paul making noise this summer. ..he doesn't agree on a contract even with a second rounder :lol:

.

jcsunsfan · Post #233 » by **jcsunsfan** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:22 pm

Saberestar wrote:
In addition to bringing Terry back, the Rockets are still in talks with second-round pick Montrezl Harrell.

Rich Paul making noise this summer. ..he doesn't agree on a contract even with a second rounder .

Oh. So that is why Montrezl isn't signed. Rich Paul is his agent. Norris Cole hasnt signed either, another Rich Paul client. Now I know why we didn't move up and take Montrezl.

AtheJ415 · Post #234 » by **AtheJ415** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:25 pm

It's in Montrezl's best interest to get traded at this point. Houston cannot sign him for more than the rookie minimum and no more than 2 years I believe.

letsgosuns · Post #235 » by **letsgosuns** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:36 pm

Rich Paul's tactics are ridiculous. He holds out the majority of his clients from signing contracts. It is obvious that the situation with Eric Bledsoe last year is attributed to Paul rather than the Suns. Tristan Thompson and Norris Cole both remain unsigned. Kevin Seraphin just signed recently. Now this rookie Montrezl Harrell is still unsigned. Everybody gets their contracts done fairly quickly except Paul's clients. Front offices around the league cannot be happy with how Paul operates.

Frank Lee · Post #236 » by **Frank Lee** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:41 pm

I can't see any deal that works $$ wise with the rockets. They aren't giving up Ariza... nor Beverly, Brewer, and McDaniels, who can't be dealt till december. No way they part with DMo... may be Cappella is odd man out there, but again, the numbers don't jive. Plus they have filled in their bench with some ancient warriors in the Jet and lunch bucket Chuck. They don't need anyone. I highly doubt Morey is worried about who he has to pay next yr... and why mess with a good thing. They were damn close last yr, w/o Beverly and DMo

plonden · Post #237 » by **plonden** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:48 pm

Capela had some really good minutes for Houston in the playoffs last year. Doubt Morey would want to move him, especially since he's still on his rookie deal.

letsgosuns · Post #238 » by **letsgosuns** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:54 pm

There is nothing on the Rockets that really interests me. I would much rather trade Markieff to a team that gives the Suns something like two first round picks and a filler. Then the Suns either start Teletovich or go out and sign or trade for a different power forward.

Flying Colors · Post #239 » by **Flying Colors** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:55 pm

**** Rich Paul, one could argue that our last dumpster fire of a season is largely his fault

tdjm · Post #240 » by **tdjm** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:06 am

letsgosuns wrote:There is nothing on the Rockets that really interests me. I would much rather trade Markieff to a team that gives the Suns something like two first round picks and a filler. Then the Suns either start Teletovich or go out and sign or trade for a different power forward.

Agreed in general. As far as the Rockets roster goes, Capela interests me (I actually wanted to use the 18th pick that was used on Ennis to select Capela), and D-Mo does as well, but there's really no way to get them at this juncture, so it's not worth thinking about.

For the Markieff trade, ideally I'd enjoy returning a young project PF. I can't think of many off the top of my head beyond Vonleh, Porzingis, Kaminsky & Zeller, and it's difficult to envision a deal with Keef as the centerpiece getting one of those guys back. If we got one, they could come off the bench behind Teletovic for one year or even start if they beat him out, whichever works. Barring that, I'd like a Dragic-esque return where we just get the picks like you said and stay flexible. The only thing I desperately do not want is to get a known quantity, bland PF like Frye or Gibson. What an awful disaster that would be.