Can a Transgender play in the NBA or WNBA?

[Mylie10]

joking but not joking
i almost believe that brittney griner was born a man

First time I heard her speak I was like.....






Then I saw who was speaking, and I was like;

[Liver_Pooty]

This is getting weird.

[Winsome Gerbil]

It's sad that so many deluded people care about what others do in their private lives. It's even more scary these same people actually believe that they are somehow an authority on what is healthy and normal.

It's not about their private lives. It's about it being endorsed as a healthy alternative lifestyle when nothing can be further from the truth. People can smoke all they want in private but when you start teaching people that smoking is healthy then, yeah, I have a problem with that.

If you don't want to believe me then maybe you will believe John Hopkins Psychiatrist Paul McHugh. They realized how harmful sex changes were and discontinued them but I'm sure he is just an evil bigot too. Here is an article discussing the truth about transgenderism from Paul McHugh himself, who is indeed an authority on the subject.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

A quick search on Paul McHugh reveals that he has a long history of selectively reading literature on the subject to apparently push his own agenda. McHugh is also of the opinion that homosexuality if is a choice, a position that I thought the even staunchest right wingers had given up on by now. http://www.transadvocate.com/clinging-to-a-dangerous-past-dr-paul-mchughs-selective-reading-of-transgender-medical-literature_n_13842.htm

There is one thing that we can agree on, all the facts need to be on the table about the dangerous of undergoing any type of cosmetic surgery - including transgender. Hopefully these facts can be presented without either left or rightwing bias.

However, referring this type of cosmetic surgery as "gross" , it seems like a main concern of yours is simply that transgender people are 'icky'.

Possibly getting implants would be cosmetic. The adam's apple shaving would be cosmetic. I'm not sure what women going to men do that's merely cosmetic but there may be something. Get a more masculine nose or something.

But no, having one's genitals or other parts removed, reshaped etc. is roughly as cosmetic as the procedure they once used to create eunuchs, or female circumcision. Its not cosmetic, its life altering, which is the intent.

[Mylie10]

I have a running bet with a buddy that Kaitlen Jenner will try and play in a women's golf tournament.

[RealityIsDemar]

Watch the transgender win MVP just based on his/her "heroic" actions. Statline won't matter.

Thank you for the sig, this is hilariously true.

[GswSucks4Ever]

And no, waking up one morning and declaring yourself female, taking hormones, even going through the surgeries to chop off your male parts and possibly stick some silcone in your chest, isn't going to eliminate the serious size and remaining strength/athleticism issues that someone born a male is going to have over someone born a female.

Put simply, if Shaquille O'Neal decided at 25 that he wanted to be a woman, took hormones, got his parts removed, and then decided he could join the WNBA he would have completely wrecked it. It would go beyond unfair. No natural woman would ever or has ever been born that big and strong, hormone therapy or no. No natural woman born remotely that tall has ever had that kind of athleticism, and merely getting the jewels removed isn't going to eliminate enough of it to make it any kind of reasonable battle.

So no, genetic males can never play in the woman's league. That league exists for women for a reason. They have hips, they have breasts, they have smaller bone structures and less upper body muscle. Their bodies are designed to be able to handle the rigors of childbearing rather than being athletically optimized. Allowing ANY other human without that full range of athletic disadvantages to compete against natural unmodified females is blatantly unfair. if you are a man, were a man, or want to be a man and have taken steps, then welcome to the NBA if you've got the game.

The only people who have a right to complain in all of it are the hermaphrodites, because they didn't have a choice. But I would imagine in almost all cases they too have natural biologic structural advantages over women, so you don't get to just go down there and beat up the ladies because you're not 100% male either, anymore than because a JV player isn't quite ready for varsity he or she gets to just go down and beat up on the frosh instead. If there's no JV, then frosh are frosh and everybody else plays varsity.

Please understand that this is you opinion, and stop spouting it as fact. Numerous athletic competitions such as the Olympics allow transgender athletes to participate, and you really think the WNBA will be different?

Jeez, and I thought your basketball takes were bad.

[geminiz]

DOES RUDY GAY COUNT AS TRANSGENDER? HE'S GAY BUT HE LIKES WOMAN.

[Winsome Gerbil]

And no, waking up one morning and declaring yourself female, taking hormones, even going through the surgeries to chop off your male parts and possibly stick some silcone in your chest, isn't going to eliminate the serious size and remaining strength/athleticism issues that someone born a male is going to have over someone born a female.

Put simply, if Shaquille O'Neal decided at 25 that he wanted to be a woman, took hormones, got his parts removed, and then decided he could join the WNBA he would have completely wrecked it. It would go beyond unfair. No natural woman would ever or has ever been born that big and strong, hormone therapy or no. No natural woman born remotely that tall has ever had that kind of athleticism, and merely getting the jewels removed isn't going to eliminate enough of it to make it any kind of reasonable battle.

So no, genetic males can never play in the woman's league. That league exists for women for a reason. They have hips, they have breasts, they have smaller bone structures and less upper body muscle. Their bodies are designed to be able to handle the rigors of childbearing rather than being athletically optimized. Allowing ANY other human without that full range of athletic disadvantages to compete against natural unmodified females is blatantly unfair. if you are a man, were a man, or want to be a man and have taken steps, then welcome to the NBA if you've got the game.

The only people who have a right to complain in all of it are the hermaphrodites, because they didn't have a choice. But I would imagine in almost all cases they too have natural biologic structural advantages over women, so you don't get to just go down there and beat up the ladies because you're not 100% male either, anymore than because a JV player isn't quite ready for varsity he or she gets to just go down and beat up on the frosh instead. If there's no JV, then frosh are frosh and everybody else plays varsity.

Please understand that this is you opinion, and stop spouting it as fact. Numerous athletic competitions such as the Olympics allow transgender athletes to participate, and you really think the WNBA will be different?

Jeez, and I thought your basketball takes were bad.

Yes, actually.



When money and careers at at stake PC has a tendency to fly right out the window.


As an aside, quit trying to bait me. Its clumsily done, and I have apparently paid so little concern to your basketball takes that I don't even recognize your username.

[DetroitPistons]

A quick search on Paul McHugh reveals that he has a long history of selectively reading literature on the subject to apparently push his own agenda. McHugh is also of the opinion that homosexuality if is a choice, a position that I thought the even staunchest right wingers had given up on by now. http://www.transadvocate.com/clinging-to-a-dangerous-past-dr-paul-mchughs-selective-reading-of-transgender-medical-literature_n_13842.htm

There is one thing that we can agree on, all the facts need to be on the table about the dangerous of undergoing any type of cosmetic surgery - including transgender. Hopefully these facts can be presented without either left or rightwing bias.

However, referring this type of cosmetic surgery as "gross" , it seems like a main concern of yours is simply that transgender people are 'icky'.

I'm sure your "quick search" involved accusations from those promoting the gay agenda. He is a psychiatrist at one of the most prominent universities in the country and If I remember correctly, John Hopkins University was actually a pioneer in sex change surgeries before stopping them due to realizing that they do more harm than good. He is an incredibly reliable source on the topic and simply denouncing him after a "quick search" shows your bias. One of the harmful findings is that the majority of transgender people regret their decision after transition has already taken place.

I am encouraged that you notice the dangers of the cosmetic surgery/drug therapy however.

Lastly, I used the word gross to refer to large scale changes, not "icky." For example the term "gross anatomy" doesn't mean icky anatomy but large anatomical features that can be seen by the eye. However, I also personally do find the idea of cosmetically mutilating a persons body to look like the opposite sex icky but that doesn't have anything to do with this discussion. Just wanted to clarify my use of the word gross.

[DetroitPistons]

Possibly getting implants would be cosmetic. The adam's apple shaving would be cosmetic. I'm not sure what women going to men do that's merely cosmetic but there may be something. Get a more masculine nose or something.

But no, having one's genitals or other parts removed, reshaped etc. is roughly as cosmetic as the procedure they once used to create eunuchs, or female circumcision. Its not cosmetic, its life altering, which is the intent.

Cosmetic refers to changing appearance without respect to function. All visible changes are done for cosmetic purposes in the case of transitioning from one sex to another. When a man has his genitals removed and mutilated to resemble a vagina, that is purely cosmetic. The vagina obviously doesn't function like a real vagina. It's simply for the appearance. Even hormone therapy is cosmetic because it changes the bone structure and things like that to resemble the opposite sex. Just because it changes the persons life doesn't mean it's not cosmetic. It simply feminizes men or makes women more masculine but never changes one sex to another. After a man fully "transitions" to woman every cell in his body still has male chromosomes. This is a matter of simple biology.

[pacers33granger]

Watch the transgender win MVP just based on his/her "heroic" actions. Statline won't matter.

Thank you for the sig, this is hilariously true.

Without context, I have to believe that people will think that is about Chris Bosh.

[Mr Puddles]

A quick search on Paul McHugh reveals that he has a long history of selectively reading literature on the subject to apparently push his own agenda. McHugh is also of the opinion that homosexuality if is a choice, a position that I thought the even staunchest right wingers had given up on by now. http://www.transadvocate.com/clinging-to-a-dangerous-past-dr-paul-mchughs-selective-reading-of-transgender-medical-literature_n_13842.htm

There is one thing that we can agree on, all the facts need to be on the table about the dangerous of undergoing any type of cosmetic surgery - including transgender. Hopefully these facts can be presented without either left or rightwing bias.

However, referring this type of cosmetic surgery as "gross" , it seems like a main concern of yours is simply that transgender people are 'icky'.

I'm sure your "quick search" involved accusations from those promoting the gay agenda. He is a psychiatrist at one of the most prominent universities in the country and If I remember correctly, John Hopkins University was actually a pioneer in sex change surgeries before stopping them due to realizing that they do more harm than good. He is an incredibly reliable source on the topic and simply denouncing him after a "quick search" shows your bias. One of the harmful findings is that the majority of transgender people regret their decision after transition has already taken place.

I am encouraged that you notice the dangers of the cosmetic surgery/drug therapy however.

Lastly, I used the word gross to refer to large scale changes, not "icky." For example the term "gross anatomy" doesn't mean icky anatomy but large anatomical features that can be seen by the eye. However, I also personally do find the idea of cosmetically mutilating a persons body to look like the opposite sex icky but that doesn't have anything to do with this discussion. Just wanted to clarify my use of the word gross.

By "quick search" I mean that didn't take a lot of effort to find a number of sources refuting him - not that I didn't spend time going through sources etc.

To clarify, my position is that the facts need to be out on the table regarding surgery - unbiased by political views (that includes both side). Any type of surgery is basically risky (with varying degrees of risk of course) so those undergoing the procedure need to be 1. Have been instructed about the risks of undergoing the procedure. 2. Need to have been evaluated as being mentally capable making the decision to undergo a life altering procedure. After this, it's a person personal choice that really doesn't effect anyone but themselves and their loved ones.

I got the impression from your post that you were against transgender surgery because the thought of transgender people "grosses you out", so I appreciate you clarifying your use of the word gross.

[lakerz12]

Sure, as the sex they were born.

But seriously...if they did play, would they request new equipment?

[Makaveli2]

The picture with melo in braids was actually a real picture and not photoshopped.

Come on ppl, you don't even have to photoshop

Dennis Rodman is the most interesting man in he world, not that dos equis guy.

[lakerz12]

Possibly getting implants would be cosmetic. The adam's apple shaving would be cosmetic. I'm not sure what women going to men do that's merely cosmetic but there may be something. Get a more masculine nose or something.

But no, having one's genitals or other parts removed, reshaped etc. is roughly as cosmetic as the procedure they once used to create eunuchs, or female circumcision. Its not cosmetic, its life altering, which is the intent.

Cosmetic refers to changing appearance without respect to function. All visible changes are done for cosmetic purposes in the case of transitioning from one sex to another. When a man has his genitals removed and mutilated to resemble a vagina, that is purely cosmetic. The vagina obviously doesn't function like a real vagina. It's simply for the appearance. Even hormone therapy is cosmetic because it changes the bone structure and things like that to resemble the opposite sex. Just because it changes the persons life doesn't mean it's not cosmetic. It simply feminizes men or makes women more masculine but never changes one sex to another. After a man fully "transitions" to woman every cell in his body still has male chromosomes. This is a matter of simple biology.

What are you doing here? Isn't this a forum for primarily atheists and liberals?

But you are correct John Hopkins U did pioneer the surgery and now has stopped because of the number of suicides and regrets of the patients.

I'm with ya bro

[HeartBreakKid]

That's an interesting question for the WNBA, probably not though.

For the NBA, any gender can play - there is no woman who is good enough to be an NBA player as of now.

[bondom34]

I'm just lost as to who has ever "pushed" being transgender anywhere. That and the term "gay agenda".

[lakerz12]

I'm just lost as to who has ever "pushed" being transgender anywhere. That and the term "gay agenda".

You must not watch TV or read Yahoo News. Good for you. It's more like liberal, elitist agenda though. With sexual and racial issues as things designed to pit citizens against each other.

[bondom34]

I'm just lost as to who has ever "pushed" being transgender anywhere. That and the term "gay agenda".

You must not watch TV or read Yahoo News. Good for you. It's more like liberal, elitist agenda though. With sexual and racial issues as things designed to pit citizens against each other.

First "gay agenda" isn't a thing. And the people in the media may do whatever, but the transgender individuals themselves aren't pushing anything on anyone. I've never once heard of a transgender person pressure anyone to do the same.

[Winsome Gerbil]

Possibly getting implants would be cosmetic. The adam's apple shaving would be cosmetic. I'm not sure what women going to men do that's merely cosmetic but there may be something. Get a more masculine nose or something.

But no, having one's genitals or other parts removed, reshaped etc. is roughly as cosmetic as the procedure they once used to create eunuchs, or female circumcision. Its not cosmetic, its life altering, which is the intent.

Cosmetic refers to changing appearance without respect to function. All visible changes are done for cosmetic purposes in the case of transitioning from one sex to another. When a man has his genitals removed and mutilated to resemble a vagina, that is purely cosmetic. The vagina obviously doesn't function like a real vagina. It's simply for the appearance. Even hormone therapy is cosmetic because it changes the bone structure and things like that to resemble the opposite sex. Just because it changes the persons life doesn't mean it's not cosmetic. It simply feminizes men or makes women more masculine but never changes one sex to another. After a man fully "transitions" to woman every cell in his body still has male chromosomes. This is a matter of simple biology.

Its splitting hairs, and I can't say for certain how plastic surgeons might define it so as to convince people to give them their money for voluntary procedures, but you are describing "cosmetic" as being defined solely by intent. There has to be a limit to that term somewhere.

I'm far from sure that is even true in a transgender case, as they are aiming for something more profound. But regardless I think cosmetic has to be defined by effect. If I decide I would look more sleek by having my arms cut off, and find a doctor unethical enough to do it, that's not cosmetic surgery. Or I want to look like a pirate and so have my eye plucked out. Again not cosmetic. Similarly if I am a man and have my genitals destroyed, my testicles removed, so that I can never function sexually again and now am missing major hormone producing organs that will effect my entire body for the remainder of my life, all in the name of making the external appearance look like a clumsy rendition of a woman's...that's not "cosmetic" surgery. Cosmetic surgery doesn't alter or destroy function. Getting a nose job where the nose is shaved or narrowed is cosmetic. Still works like a nose. But I don't think you could call having the nose removed cosmetic surgery any longer.

All of which is getting far afield from the topic at hand of course, given that the whole point is that the decision of where a transgender athlete should compete should be based on actual function, not cosmetics.