Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[bondom34]

I never realized how little I cared about Russell Westbrook until I had to read three pages of this trash. You guys done yet?

I was done last night til I got attacked again, I'm good.

Peace for the last time all.

[Cutter]

I'll just end it with this. But in the future, please just don't make stuff up, really annoying. And dishonest.

#foolishness

I want to be be polite when I ask this, but why are you coming back today trying to stir things up again? Your a mod and supposed to be above this.

Nobody that I am aware of made anything up, or lied in a post. They may have posted something you disagree with, they might have made a mistake in posting numbers or stats, or they may just look at the world of basketball completely different from you. Yet you took the liberty of saying the post was a lie and proceeded to attack based on that view. When you keep calling a post a lie, you are basically calling the poster a liar. That is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board. You said that people who and1'd the post couldn't think for themselves, that is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board.

BWGood or other mods what do you think of this? Do you feel Bondom should be held accountable for his personal attacks yesterday, and then coming back today trying to stir things up again? Have any of you forwarded his comments to Howard Mass for review? I think I know the answer to this, but would like to hear your reply.

Thanks.

OK. I'm going to reply to this because it was asked but a few things:
1. I never attacked anyone, I attacked the post.
2. I pointed out, in my own reply, what was false about Saint's reply. He posted numbers which were, by the links provided, false. Not true. That is made up, or a lie as you say.
3. The foolishness post was a joke, a reference to Morris made lightheartedly. And if you'd like me held accountable for something, I have zero idea what it is.

Again, I provided links. He has a net rating of .5 (false) is the first that comes to mind, along with multiple others. I'm tired of this and really don't care to be here anymore, they're not paying me to do this and its quite tiresome getting into a debate when not only can that happen but then I'm attacked multiple times for refuting it. So that's it. Stuff was made up and I showed it, yet I somehow was the one who attacked others when I was multiple times attacked myself. I'm done here, carry on with your offseason.

Again, you need to be held accountable for calling posters on this board a liar. You're trying to hide behind the fact that you called a post you disagree with a lie, yet in reality you are calling the poster a liar. And it's really weird that you would use the term "lie" to refer to a post you disagree with. You could have used used the term "I disagree", or "I don't agree with your stats", or you could have said " hey buddy let me help you get your facts straight". But instead you kept calling this poster a liar by calling his post a lie. You knew exactly what you were doing, and thought it was clever.

And then you double back this morning with another trolling post ending with #foolishness. Why would you try to reflame the events of yesterday? You are supposed to be a mod and be above that.

I think you have broken all kinds of rules of conduct for this forum. I'm waiting for our mods to do what is right.

#accountable.

[bondom34]

I want to be be polite when I ask this, but why are you coming back today trying to stir things up again? Your a mod and supposed to be above this.

Nobody that I am aware of made anything up, or lied in a post. They may have posted something you disagree with, they might have made a mistake in posting numbers or stats, or they may just look at the world of basketball completely different from you. Yet you took the liberty of saying the post was a lie and proceeded to attack based on that view. When you keep calling a post a lie, you are basically calling the poster a liar. That is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board. You said that people who and1'd the post couldn't think for themselves, that is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board.

BWGood or other mods what do you think of this? Do you feel Bondom should be held accountable for his personal attacks yesterday, and then coming back today trying to stir things up again? Have any of you forwarded his comments to Howard Mass for review? I think I know the answer to this, but would like to hear your reply.

Thanks.

OK. I'm going to reply to this because it was asked but a few things:
1. I never attacked anyone, I attacked the post.
2. I pointed out, in my own reply, what was false about Saint's reply. He posted numbers which were, by the links provided, false. Not true. That is made up, or a lie as you say.
3. The foolishness post was a joke, a reference to Morris made lightheartedly. And if you'd like me held accountable for something, I have zero idea what it is.

Again, I provided links. He has a net rating of .5 (false) is the first that comes to mind, along with multiple others. I'm tired of this and really don't care to be here anymore, they're not paying me to do this and its quite tiresome getting into a debate when not only can that happen but then I'm attacked multiple times for refuting it. So that's it. Stuff was made up and I showed it, yet I somehow was the one who attacked others when I was multiple times attacked myself. I'm done here, carry on with your offseason.

Again, you need to be held accountable for calling posters on this board a liar. You're trying to hide behind the fact that you called a post you disagree with a lie, yet in reality you are calling the poster a liar. And it's really weird that you would use the term "lie" to refer to a post you disagree with. You could have used used the term "I disagree", or "I don't agree with your stats", or you could have said " hey buddy let me help you get your facts straight". But instead you kept calling this poster a liar by calling his post a lie. You knew exactly what you were doing, and thought it was clever.

And then you double back this morning with another trolling post ending with #foolishness. Why would you try to reflame the events of yesterday? You are supposed to be a mod and be above that.

I think you have broken all kinds of rules of conduct for this forum. I'm waiting for our mods to do what is right.

#accountable.

Cutter, I've tried to leave here multiple times now. And again posted above what was false. So if you say something false and I call it false, I get called for it? That makes no sense.

[franksredhot]

I never realized how little I cared about Russell Westbrook until I had to read three pages of this trash. You guys done yet?

I was done last night til I got attacked again, I'm good.

Peace for the last time all.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdVmnZ88ECM[/youtube]

[Saberestar]

Good read here.

Players entering their fourth season have until Oct. 31 to agree to long-term contract extensions..........https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/08/22/analytics-emerging-coaching-tool/s48TbOisEr35kjyLeAlzFP/story.html

[shakendfries]

Back on track.

Apparently the Blazers and Wolves got close to a trade. I wonder who was involved?

Twitter now says that the Celtics are looking to make a blockbuster. I wonder if we can get in on the action.

I want young talent or another proven PF if we ship out Keef.

No more draft picks or spare parts. We have enough of those.

How do you feel about Terrence Ross and James Johnson?

I do not like them. They are not better than Warren or P.J. , they are not needed.

Boston have the pieces to make a big trade...they have a ton of frontcourt players. With David Lee and Amir Johnson now on their team, Sullinger can be traded ...but I think he is worse than Markieff and a really poor defender, so I do not want him like a Sun.

Sullinger doesn't strike me as a player with much room to improve. It's interesting you're not a fan of Terrence Ross - I agree that he isn't a very good player, but he's decent, young, & athletic. It seems like Morris could be toxic for your locker room next season- I'm actually interested in what Suns fans think about the man that used to wear #2 -Joe Johnson. More specifically, I wonder how you think a SF core of P.J. + Terrence Ross & Joe Johnson would shake out. Both of their contracts are expiring, so they could be locked up for a reasonable amount after this season

[Saberestar]

How do you feel about Terrence Ross and James Johnson?

I do not like them. They are not better than Warren or P.J. , they are not needed.

Boston have the pieces to make a big trade...they have a ton of frontcourt players. With David Lee and Amir Johnson now on their team, Sullinger can be traded ...but I think he is worse than Markieff and a really poor defender, so I do not want him like a Sun.

Sullinger doesn't strike me as a player with much room to improve. It's interesting you're not a fan of Terrence Ross - I agree that he isn't a very good player, but he's decent, young, & athletic. It seems like Morris could be toxic for your locker room next season- I'm actually interested in what Suns fans think about the man that used to wear #2 -Joe Johnson. More specifically, I wonder how you think a SF core of P.J. + Terrence Ross & Joe Johnson would shake out. Both of their contracts are expiring, so they could be locked up for a reasonable amount after this season

Are you suggesting a trade involving Joe Johnson? His salary is toooo high, is not an option.

[shakendfries]

I do not like them. They are not better than Warren or P.J. , they are not needed.

Boston have the pieces to make a big trade...they have a ton of frontcourt players. With David Lee and Amir Johnson now on their team, Sullinger can be traded ...but I think he is worse than Markieff and a really poor defender, so I do not want him like a Sun.

Sullinger doesn't strike me as a player with much room to improve. It's interesting you're not a fan of Terrence Ross - I agree that he isn't a very good player, but he's decent, young, & athletic. It seems like Morris could be toxic for your locker room next season- I'm actually interested in what Suns fans think about the man that used to wear #2 -Joe Johnson. More specifically, I wonder how you think a SF core of P.J. + Terrence Ross & Joe Johnson would shake out. Both of their contracts are expiring, so they could be locked up for a reasonable amount after this season

Are you suggesting a trade involving Joe Johnson? His salary is toooo high, is not an option.

Nah, you could probably nab him in free agency if you wanted. Are Suns fans even interested?

[bwgood77]

I'll just end it with this. But in the future, please just don't make stuff up, really annoying. And dishonest.

#foolishness

I want to be be polite when I ask this, but why are you coming back today trying to stir things up again? Your a mod and supposed to be above this.

Nobody that I am aware of made anything up, or lied in a post. They may have posted something you disagree with, they might have made a mistake in posting numbers or stats, or they may just look at the world of basketball completely different from you. Yet you took the liberty of saying the post was a lie and proceeded to attack based on that view. When you keep calling a post a lie, you are basically calling the poster a liar. That is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board. You said that people who and1'd the post couldn't think for themselves, that is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board.

BWGood or other mods what do you think of this? Do you feel Bondom should be held accountable for his personal attacks yesterday, and then coming back today trying to stir things up again? Have any of you forwarded his comments to Howard Mass for review? I think I know the answer to this, but would like to hear your reply.

Thanks.

Well that post you are responding to is from yesterday. I haven't researched the facts so I don't know for a fact if things were made up or not. We have plenty of arguments here where people basically call others liars or disagree about what the truth is. We try to be pretty laid back as mods, but things did feel a little heated yesterday so I tried to steer the thread back on topic, even thought most of the discussion regarding point guards yesterday was interesting, and I like to see the different opinions. People got REALLY divided over Dragic, and they have regarding the twins, Bledsoe, etc, in the past, and argued about what the real truth is.

I think we just need to put this episode behind us and move on.

[charley barkles]

Man these last few pages are painful. I don't care about the topic, yet I agreed with the guy from the other board...
But seriously? Saying "I'm done. It's cool. Bye." 4 or 5 times yet is still back and posting. I think the more the merrier, but the only things more annoying than posters making stuff up is people threatening to leave and then never doing it.

How about them Suns? Any rumors or thoughts about the Suns? Is anyone here a suns fan?

[Saberestar]

Sullinger doesn't strike me as a player with much room to improve. It's interesting you're not a fan of Terrence Ross - I agree that he isn't a very good player, but he's decent, young, & athletic. It seems like Morris could be toxic for your locker room next season- I'm actually interested in what Suns fans think about the man that used to wear #2 -Joe Johnson. More specifically, I wonder how you think a SF core of P.J. + Terrence Ross & Joe Johnson would shake out. Both of their contracts are expiring, so they could be locked up for a reasonable amount after this season

Are you suggesting a trade involving Joe Johnson? His salary is toooo high, is not an option.

Nah, you could probably nab him in free agency if you wanted. Are Suns fans even interested?

I always have been a Joe Johnson fan, but at this point of his career he is not a game changer anymore so I am not really interested.
I think that McDonough and Hornacek see Warren like our future starter at SF with P.J. Tucker playing behind him a few more years.

After saying that I have to add that I would consider to sign Joe next year if he wants to play for us and he embraces a role coming from the bench. He is versatile enough to play some minutes at SG, SF and even at PF.

[shakendfries]

Are you suggesting a trade involving Joe Johnson? His salary is toooo high, is not an option.

Nah, you could probably nab him in free agency if you wanted. Are Suns fans even interested?

I always have been a Joe Johnson fan, but at this point of his career he is not a game changer anymore so I am not really interested.
I think that McDonough and Hornacek see Warren like our future starter at SF with P.J. Tucker playing behind him a few more years.

After saying that I have to add that I would consider to sign Joe next year if he wants to play for us and he embraces a role coming from the bench. He is versatile enough to play some minutes at SG, SF and even at PF.

'Yeah, he's probably gonna come off the bench for the Nets this season.

P.J. Tucker has 2 years left on his contract. Unless you're sure you're ready to fork him the super max in this new cba, you might want to make him earn it. I think he's a better player than Warren. However, if you were to compare the two -Ross's game is much more developed than Warren. I think P.J. Tucker will turn out to be a better player than Terrence Ross, but I think Terrence could provide him better competition than Warren. Think about it- they're both playing for their contracts, and they're both entering their respective primes

[Cutter]

Nah, you could probably nab him in free agency if you wanted. Are Suns fans even interested?

I always have been a Joe Johnson fan, but at this point of his career he is not a game changer anymore so I am not really interested.
I think that McDonough and Hornacek see Warren like our future starter at SF with P.J. Tucker playing behind him a few more years.

After saying that I have to add that I would consider to sign Joe next year if he wants to play for us and he embraces a role coming from the bench. He is versatile enough to play some minutes at SG, SF and even at PF.

'Yeah, he's probably gonna come off the bench for the Nets this season.

P.J. Tucker has 2 years left on his contract. Unless you're sure you're ready to fork him the super max in this new cba, you might want to make him earn it. I think he's a better player than Warren. However, if you were to compare the two -Ross's game is much more developed than Warren. I think P.J. Tucker will turn out to be a better player than Terrence Ross, but I think Terrence could provide him better competition than Warren. Think about it- they're both playing for their contracts, and they're both entering their respective primes

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but I don't think anyone is talking about paying PJ Tucker a max contract. He is on a very reasonable contract, something like 4 million per year IIRC. He is a very good wing defender who can hit the corner 3 with decent efficiency. He has some character issues which seem to be related to alchohol and buses . But I can't imagine a team paying him anywhere max, even in this new salary cap environment.

[lilfishi22]

Spoiler:

I want to be be polite when I ask this, but why are you coming back today trying to stir things up again? Your a mod and supposed to be above this.

Nobody that I am aware of made anything up, or lied in a post. They may have posted something you disagree with, they might have made a mistake in posting numbers or stats, or they may just look at the world of basketball completely different from you. Yet you took the liberty of saying the post was a lie and proceeded to attack based on that view. When you keep calling a post a lie, you are basically calling the poster a liar. That is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board. You said that people who and1'd the post couldn't think for themselves, that is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board.

BWGood or other mods what do you think of this? Do you feel Bondom should be held accountable for his personal attacks yesterday, and then coming back today trying to stir things up again? Have any of you forwarded his comments to Howard Mass for review? I think I know the answer to this, but would like to hear your reply.

Thanks.

OK. I'm going to reply to this because it was asked but a few things:
1. I never attacked anyone, I attacked the post.
2. I pointed out, in my own reply, what was false about Saint's reply. He posted numbers which were, by the links provided, false. Not true. That is made up, or a lie as you say.
3. The foolishness post was a joke, a reference to Morris made lightheartedly. And if you'd like me held accountable for something, I have zero idea what it is.

Again, I provided links. He has a net rating of .5 (false) is the first that comes to mind, along with multiple others. I'm tired of this and really don't care to be here anymore, they're not paying me to do this and its quite tiresome getting into a debate when not only can that happen but then I'm attacked multiple times for refuting it. So that's it. Stuff was made up and I showed it, yet I somehow was the one who attacked others when I was multiple times attacked myself. I'm done here, carry on with your offseason.

Again, you need to be held accountable for calling posters on this board a liar. You're trying to hide behind the fact that you called a post you disagree with a lie, yet in reality you are calling the poster a liar. And it's really weird that you would use the term "lie" to refer to a post you disagree with. You could have used used the term "I disagree", or "I don't agree with your stats", or you could have said " hey buddy let me help you get your facts straight". But instead you kept calling this poster a liar by calling his post a lie. You knew exactly what you were doing, and thought it was clever.

And then you double back this morning with another trolling post ending with #foolishness. Why would you try to reflame the events of yesterday? You are supposed to be a mod and be above that.

I think you have broken all kinds of rules of conduct for this forum. I'm waiting for our mods to do what is right.

#accountable.

bondom had been well within the rules when it comes to his interaction with saintescaton. He didn't call saintescaton a liar, he called out one of saintescaton's posts as a lie and argued it point by point. Had bondom just called him a liar or his post a lie with no other proof point, then I'd have an issue with that. I haven't gone deep enough into the validity or accuracy of either party's stats but based on the interaction, bondom was fairly civil in calling out what he thought was a lie or misuse of stats.

The read was interesting for me and there's really no need to call a poster a troll when they've gone to the effort researching to prove their point and then make a subsequent rebuttal. If you have an issue with his points, then call out his points, not him as an poster.

[jcsunsfan]

I hate August.

[Cutter]

Spoiler:

OK. I'm going to reply to this because it was asked but a few things:
1. I never attacked anyone, I attacked the post.
2. I pointed out, in my own reply, what was false about Saint's reply. He posted numbers which were, by the links provided, false. Not true. That is made up, or a lie as you say.
3. The foolishness post was a joke, a reference to Morris made lightheartedly. And if you'd like me held accountable for something, I have zero idea what it is.

Again, I provided links. He has a net rating of .5 (false) is the first that comes to mind, along with multiple others. I'm tired of this and really don't care to be here anymore, they're not paying me to do this and its quite tiresome getting into a debate when not only can that happen but then I'm attacked multiple times for refuting it. So that's it. Stuff was made up and I showed it, yet I somehow was the one who attacked others when I was multiple times attacked myself. I'm done here, carry on with your offseason.

Again, you need to be held accountable for calling posters on this board a liar. You're trying to hide behind the fact that you called a post you disagree with a lie, yet in reality you are calling the poster a liar. And it's really weird that you would use the term "lie" to refer to a post you disagree with. You could have used used the term "I disagree", or "I don't agree with your stats", or you could have said " hey buddy let me help you get your facts straight". But instead you kept calling this poster a liar by calling his post a lie. You knew exactly what you were doing, and thought it was clever.

And then you double back this morning with another trolling post ending with #foolishness. Why would you try to reflame the events of yesterday? You are supposed to be a mod and be above that.

I think you have broken all kinds of rules of conduct for this forum. I'm waiting for our mods to do what is right.

#accountable.

bondom had been well within the rules when it comes to his interaction with saintescaton. He didn't call saintescaton a liar, he called out one of saintescaton's posts as a lie and argued it point by point. Had bondom just called him a liar or his post a lie with no other proof point, then I'd have an issue with that. I haven't gone deep enough into the validity or accuracy of either party's stats but based on the interaction, bondom was fairly civil in calling out what he thought was a lie or misuse of stats.

I disagree. He could have used any number of methods to counter what saintescation posted without calling his post a lie. Are you now saying that the next post I disagree with I can just call the post a lie? "hey lilfishi, your post is just a bunch of lies." "Hey lilfishi, I'm going to refute the lies in your post one by one." Saying or implying someone is lying is made to escalate a situation, not de-escalate it. Shouldn't a mod de-escalate? I don't think I've ever heard you call someone's post a lie, and by extension implying the poster is a liar.

[batsmasher]

I disagree. He could have used any number of methods to counter what saintescation posted without calling his post a lie. Are you now saying that the next post I disagree with I can just call the post a lie? "hey lilfishi, your post is just a bunch of lies." "Hey lilfishi, I'm going to refute the lies in your post one by one." Saying or implying someone is lying is made to escalate a situation, not de-escalate it. Shouldn't a mod de-escalate? I don't think I've ever heard you call someone's post a lie, and by extension implying the poster is a liar.

Mate, you're sticking up for an argument that isn't even yours. And you're calling him the troll?

#hypocrisy #idontevenlikehashtags #whatamidoing #august #killme

[bwgood77]

I disagree. He could have used any number of methods to counter what saintescation posted without calling his post a lie. Are you now saying that the next post I disagree with I can just call the post a lie? "hey lilfishi, your post is just a bunch of lies." "Hey lilfishi, I'm going to refute the lies in your post one by one." Saying or implying someone is lying is made to escalate a situation, not de-escalate it. Shouldn't a mod de-escalate? I don't think I've ever heard you call someone's post a lie, and by extension implying the poster is a liar.

Mate, you're sticking up for an argument that isn't even yours. And you're calling him the troll?

#hypocrisy #idontevenlikehashtags #whatamidoing #august #killme

Love the hashtags, and agree with the post. Hashtags outside of twitter was a pet peeve of mine. I used to post this when people used them on facebook, before facebook started using them... http://memegenerator.net/instance/29352363

I know mainly it's meant to be funny, and yours is one of the first that was actually funny.

[lilfishi22]

I disagree. He could have used any number of methods to counter what saintescation posted without calling his post a lie. Are you now saying that the next post I disagree with I can just call the post a lie? "hey lilfishi, your post is just a bunch of lies." "Hey lilfishi, I'm going to refute the lies in your post one by one." Saying or implying someone is lying is made to escalate a situation, not de-escalate it. Shouldn't a mod de-escalate? I don't think I've ever heard you call someone's post a lie, and by extension implying the poster is a liar.

I have an issue with this. Calling my post genius doesn't mean you're calling me a genius. It only means that post, at that point in time, in that particular conversation was genius. Just as calling a post a lie, doesn't mean he's implying saintescation should be branded a liar, only his post in a vacuum is untruthful. Again, I'm haven't gone deep enough to validate either party's proof points, only that it's clear both party's have gone to significant effort in doing research to back up their's.

bondom called the post a lie because he believed it was, based on the information and background he has. I have no issues in a poster calling out a post as a lie, if you can prove it is so. Could bondom have used another word other than lie? Sure, but to devalue his entire post because he used the word "lie" and then call him a troll (which is a direct personal attack, mind you) adds nothing to the conversation. If you have an issue with his post, then attack his points.

This isn't really the forum to be discussing whether bondom is right or wrong as this is going OT but I'm happy to take this offline and discuss through PM with you.

[Frank Lee]