Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[Saberestar]

The Phoenix Suns' training camp gained some competition with agreements for former Sixers center Henry Sims and former Nets power forward Cory Jefferson to compete for roster spots.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2015/08/25/suns-add-henry-sims-cory-jefferson-training-camp/32357631/

[batsmasher]

Our camp roster is STRONG! Lots of competition for those last two places.

Also, pausing the 2K vid (1:23 for those who haven't yet) reminded me we have MIRZA!!!!!!!!!!! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

My Mirza hype got lost in all the off-season drama. The man is a god.

[plonden]

I like both signings, but especially the Sims signing. Sims had some bright moments with Philadelphia. He's 6-10. He has career per-36 minute averages of 14.8 points, 9.4 boards, 2.1 assists, 1.1 steals, 0.8 blocks, and 2.2 turnovers on .475 FG% and .760 FT%. I thought he was one of the top end of the bench big men left. Considering that he's entering his fourth season in the NBA, he still has room for growth. I would not be surprised if he gets one of the last two roster spots, with the final roster spot going to a backup PG. I haven't seen much of Jefferson, to be honest, but his numbers seem to merit a camp invite, and, ultimately, assignment to the Suns' D-League affiliate. He's old for a sophomore--he'll turn 25 this year. But his per-36 averages last season were 12.4 points, 9.8 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.4 blocks, and 1.4 turnovers on .449 FG% and .574 FT%.

[tdjm]

Those are really great signings for training camp. Not great players, utter longshots to make the roster - but guys who have still logged real, legitimate NBA minutes and thus will be able to push up the level of play at camp beyond what you'd usually expect to see from the filler.

[JohnWall2]

These two HOF signings will put us over the top of the other WC teams IMO

[Mr Puddles]

Cory Jefferson absolutely killed us (Keiff) last season. Active rebounder with good athleticism.

Henry Sims is a big body who has put up good numbers on a bad team.

Excellent roster filling signings if you ask me, could have done a lot worse for a couple of end of the bench guys.

[bwgood77]

I like both signings, but especially the Sims signing. Sims had some bright moments with Philadelphia. He's 6-10. He has career per-36 minute averages of 14.8 points, 9.4 boards, 2.1 assists, 1.1 steals, 0.8 blocks, and 2.2 turnovers on .475 FG% and .760 FT%. I thought he was one of the top end of the bench big men left. Considering that he's entering his fourth season in the NBA, he still has room for growth. I would not be surprised if he gets one of the last two roster spots, with the final roster spot going to a backup PG. I haven't seen much of Jefferson, to be honest, but his numbers seem to merit a camp invite, and, ultimately, assignment to the Suns' D-League affiliate. He's old for a sophomore--he'll turn 25 this year. But his per-36 averages last season were 12.4 points, 9.8 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.4 blocks, and 1.4 turnovers on .449 FG% and .574 FT%.

Yes, I'm pretty surprised we signed Sims.

[NoKneeBledsoe]

you guys and your per 36 stats.

So if I avg 1 min a game in the nba but score 2 pts 1 assist 1 rebound

does that mean my per 36 is 72 ppg 36 apg and 36 rpg

This is the dumbest stat I have every seen! Henry Sims can be the next Whiteside. Breakout after the proper mentorship of Chandler.

Cory Jefferson per 36 is 13 ppg and 9 rpg . That stat will never happen and hence why do we use per 36?

[NoKneeBledsoe]

Can Henry Sims play PF? Has anyone watched his style of play? Hopefully the suns don't try and make him a stretch 4.

[bwgood77]

you guys and your per 36 stats.

So if I avg 1 min a game in the nba but score 2 pts 1 assist 1 rebound

does that mean my per 36 is 72 ppg 36 apg and 36 rpg

This is the dumbest stat I have every seen! Henry Sims can be the next Whiteside. Breakout after the proper mentorship of Chandler.

Cory Jefferson per 36 is 13 ppg and 9 rpg . That stat will never happen and hence why do we use per 36?

If a guy averages 10 minutes a game or less, it is worthless, or even 15-20 minutes it is not that great, but he averaged over 20 one season and over 30 in another. PER isn't a great measure either, but he had over 19 in each year which is better than most (f not all) of our players. PER probably favors big men and blocks, but he is still solid. His stats were likely inflated because he played with scrubs, but maybe he will learn some new things playing with guys who have actually been in the league for awhile and are definitely NBA level players.

[plonden]

you guys and your per 36 stats.

So if I avg 1 min a game in the nba but score 2 pts 1 assist 1 rebound

does that mean my per 36 is 72 ppg 36 apg and 36 rpg

This is the dumbest stat I have every seen! Henry Sims can be the next Whiteside. Breakout after the proper mentorship of Chandler.

Cory Jefferson per 36 is 13 ppg and 9 rpg . That stat will never happen and hence why do we use per 36?

Come on, man. Sims has played 2,279 NBA minutes in his career. That's quite a bit more than 82 minutes in a season. If there is any criticism it's that--as Mr. Puddles pointed out--he put up these numbers on bad teams. I haven't seen anyone saying he's the next Hassan Whiteside. The general consensus is that he'd be a solid end of the bench big. Per-36 stats can lead to anomalies if the is a very small sample size, like with your hypothetical player who plays 1 minute a game or 82 minutes total in a season. But this is based on a much larger sample size. Sufficient to allow you to reasonable conclusions should Sims's playing time be scaled up to 36 minutes a game.

[bigfoot]

you guys and your per 36 stats.

So if I avg 1 min a game in the nba but score 2 pts 1 assist 1 rebound

does that mean my per 36 is 72 ppg 36 apg and 36 rpg

This is the dumbest stat I have every seen! Henry Sims can be the next Whiteside. Breakout after the proper mentorship of Chandler.

Cory Jefferson per 36 is 13 ppg and 9 rpg . That stat will never happen and hence why do we use per 36?

What it means is you have no clue how to interpret statistical numbers. Your example is obviously a stupid way to use per 36. Yet there are plenty of cases where per 36 would provide a good metric for evaluating a player. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean its wrong.

[plonden]

Can Henry Sims play PF? Has anyone watched his style of play? Hopefully the suns don't try and make him a stretch 4.

He is not a stretch four. He's very effective around the rim and in the paint. He shot 58.1 percent on hook shots and 62.9 percent on layups per nba.com stats. But a sub-par jump shooter: 39.4 percent per nba.com stats.

[SideSwipe]

I was wondering what happened to Sims. Seems like I saw some good things from him over the last couple of seasons. Big bruiser body. Chase-down rebounder, a little outside game. That will be good for Alex to go up against in camp. Frankly I think we could use a real bruiser in the front court for the full season. I think if we can sign him, he would be an asset.

[Cutter]

When using Per 36 numbers the important thing to remember is "confidence interval".

For example, No Knees uses the example of a player scoring 2 points and 1 rebound in 1 minute of play. The Per 36 metric extrapolates that the player would have stats of 72 points and 36 rebounds if he played the full 36 minutes. This is where the confidence interval comes in. If a player tried to extrapolate 1 minute of play to a full 36 minutes of play he would have a confidence interval of 1/36 = 2.8% likelihood that he would actually achieve the full Per 36 number. If you try to extrapolate 1 minute of play to a Per 36 minute number you have only a very low 2.8% chance this would happen.

If Devon Booker player 18 minutes and scored 15 points and 5 rebounds, his Per 36 metric would predict 30 points and 10 rebounds with a confidence interval of 18/36 = 50% likelihood that he would actually achieve the full Per 36 stats. If Hornacek left him in the entire game there is a decent chance he achieves the predicted Per 36 stats.

If Los Soles or other stats guys are out there please let me know if I interpreted the concept of "confidence interval" correctly.

[lilfishi22]

you guys and your per 36 stats.

So if I avg 1 min a game in the nba but score 2 pts 1 assist 1 rebound

does that mean my per 36 is 72 ppg 36 apg and 36 rpg

This is the dumbest stat I have every seen! Henry Sims can be the next Whiteside. Breakout after the proper mentorship of Chandler.

Cory Jefferson per36 is 13 ppg and 9 rpg . That stat will never happen and hence why do we use per 36?

It's a crude extrapolation of actual stats which is really only insightful (not useful) to give an indication of what a player might be able to do with more consistent minutes. Obviously no one is looking at their per36 stats and saying, well if we give this guy 36 min, he'll give us X.

Essentially, it provides insight on productivity rather than actual projected production. It's only a dumb stat if you use it in a stupid way

[AtheJ415]

I like the Sims signing a lot. IMO, he will get a roster spot. He's not a stretch 4, and I could still see us jumping on one if somebody falls out with another team. That said, not everybody needs to be a stretch 4 on this team, and we have 2 in Mirza and Leuer, and another potential one in Markieff (at least for now), who the FO has stated as believing he can become a 3 point shooter.

We desperately need another PG imo. I just have 0 faith in Ronnie Price, and him playing meaningful minutes scares me. I realize Knight and Bledsoe will get most of the minutes, but one could get hurt. I guess we could sign one of the FA when that happens, but to me there are quality PGs out there who could help us.

I've never been a huge Corey Jefferson fan, but he's a solid signing when it comes to camp invites, and is a good system fit.

[lilfishi22]

I really don't mind Ronnie Price as one of our backup 1. I also don't see him playing major minutes. Both Bledsoe and Knight will be playing meaningful minutes as the sole PG in addition to starting together so there won't be much minutes for Price.

I am much more concerned about our "depth" at the 4 considering we might not actually have a starting 4 to begin the season.

[RunDogGun]

I really don't mind Ronnie Price as one of our backup 1. I also don't see him playing major minutes. Both Bledsoe and Knight will be playing meaningful minutes as the sole PG in addition to starting together so there won't be much minutes for Price.

I am much more concerned about our "depth" at the 4 considering we might not actually have a starting 4 to begin the season.

I'm not worried about Price either. Dude is a pro, and he will come in and play hard whenever his number is called. I'd really like to see Booker get better at ball handling as well as Goodwin

If we had to make a move to secure a better third string point guard, I'm sure we have enough assets and possible targets.

[TASTIC]

I like the Jefferson signing more than the Sims one.

Sims doesn't rebound well, block shots or make an outside shot that well - so he doesn't check any boxes.

Jefferson is limited but he's a VERY good rebounder and a hell of an athlete, we could use one of them considering two of our backups are Mirza and Leuer. He also played with Mirza on the Nets too...Not that it means a lot