How do we compare to 92/93 jays?

2pat · Post #1 » by **2pat** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:32 am

Position for position?

satyr9 · Post #2 » by **satyr9** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:09 am

I just did an extensive study, I'm pretty sure we've got all the same positions. Destiny?

Sifu · Post #3 » by **Sifu** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:44 am

satyr9 wrote:I just did an extensive study, I'm pretty sure we've got all the same positions. Destiny?

Nah. You missed missionary, which was added between now and then.

satyr9 · Post #4 » by **satyr9** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:04 pm

Sifu wrote:
satyr9 wrote:I just did an extensive study, I'm pretty sure we've got all the same positions. Destiny?

Nah. You missed missionary, which was added between now and then.

As long as the team collectively practices their reverse cowboy daily, we should be okay.

Regulator · Post #5 » by **Regulator** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:19 pm

satyr9 wrote:
Sifu wrote:
satyr9 wrote:I just did an extensive study, I'm pretty sure we've got all the same positions. Destiny?

Nah. You missed missionary, which was added between now and then.

As long as the team collectively practices their reverse cowboy daily, we should be okay.

Always thought it was reverse cowgirl. Freudian slip on your behalf?

tecumseh18 · Post #6 » by **tecumseh18** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:55 pm

The 1992 and 1993 Jays were two different teams. 1992 had the pitching, 1993 had the hitting.

2015 Jays have both, hence the redonkulus run differential.

But hey, shut up! Jays were champions in 1992-93. These Jays aren't anything - yet. And if they make the WS and face the Cards, well, the Cards are a hell of a lot better than the 93 Phillies.

The_Hater · Post #7 » by **The_Hater** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:05 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:The 1992 and 1993 Jays were two different teams. 1992 had the pitching, 1993 had the hitting.

2015 Jays have both, hence the redonkulus run differential.

But hey, shut up! Jays were champions in 1992-93. These Jays aren't anything - yet. And if they make the WS and face the Cards, well, the Cards are a hell of a lot better than the 93 Phillies.

Of course it's Much harder to get through the crapshoot called the MLB playoffs now than it was back in 92-93. If 10 teams made then playoffs back then it's unlikely the Jays would have been able to win twice.

This team does seem somewhat similar to the 1993 squad though.

UN-Owen · Post #8 » by **UN-Owen** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:30 pm

The Jays had incredible pitching depth on those previous championship teams

Pitchers that were on one or both championships:

Juan Guzman
Jimmy Key
Dave Stieb
Jack Morris
Dave Stewart
David Wells
David Cone
Todd Stottlemyre
Al Leiter

PurplePJs · Post #9 » by **PurplePJs** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:34 pm

They ain't done **** yet.

A sweep today would be nice. Cmon 2 o'clock, been a long week, I need a sweet pint of that nectar.

And1Skip · Post #10 » by **And1Skip** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:50 pm

the 1993 team's pitching was relatively bad. Juan Guzman (who was so underrated) and Pat Hentgen were our best starters. The rest was Dave Stewart and Todd Stottylemyre. Jack Morris sucked in 1993. Cone was only a 1 month rental in 1992 (traded for future HOFer Jeff Kent :banghead:

) and Stieb shut it down before 1992 playoffs began.

But yeah, not only was the 1993 starting rotation not that good, the bullpen was nothing to write about as well other than Ward who was our closer. The set-up man was like Timlim or Mark Eichorn (lol). The 1993 offence was crazy good with WAMCO + Henderson (who actually wasn't very good in his brief stint after deadline). But even with WAMCO, the bottom of the order was only solidified mid-season when we got back Fernandez and then got Henderson later (to solidify LF but him being in leadoff made things weird, like Cito putting Alomar in the 6 hole in the playoffs). Ed Sprague's coming out party was in the 1992 WS, so his 1993 season was pretty good for bottom of order, and then Pat Borders has a career WS battinga vg of like .600 LOL.

I think on paper, 2015 Jays are still better than 1993 Jays - but that's just paper - lets see how the rest of the season and playoffs play out.

The_Hater · Post #11 » by **The_Hater** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:25 pm

UN-Owen wrote:The Jays had incredible pitching depth on those previous championship teams

Pitchers that were on one or both championships:

Juan Guzman
Jimmy Key
Dave Stieb
Jack Morris
Dave Stewart
David Wells
David Cone
Todd Stottlemyre
Al Leiter

But you're taking the starting pitchers from 2 different teams, combining them and then not even considering about how well they actually pitched during those specific seasons. Stieb was washed up and a complete non-factor, Wells was terrible as he shuffled between the pen and the rotation, Leiter was average and a part time starter, Stottlemyre was a back-end rotation guy and Stewart and Morris we're both huge disappointments with the Jays. Hentgen (who you missed) was a non-factor in 1992 but solid in 1993. Overall, the pitching staff of the 1993 team wasn't particularly strong, the offense carried that squad.

Besides, fast forward 20 years and we could be talking about how great the pitching depth was on this team too if all we do as stare at the names.

UN-Owen · Post #12 » by **UN-Owen** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:43 pm

The_Hater wrote:
UN-Owen wrote:The Jays had incredible pitching depth on those previous championship teams

Pitchers that were on one or both championships:

Juan Guzman
Jimmy Key
Dave Stieb
Jack Morris
Dave Stewart
David Wells
David Cone
Todd Stottlemyre
Al Leiter

But you're taking the starting pitchers from 2 different teams, combining them and then not even considering about how well they actually pitched during those specific seasons. Stieb was washed up and a complete non-factor, Wells was terrible as he shuffled between the pen and the rotation, Leiter was average and a part time starter, Stottlemyre was a back-end rotation guy and Stewart and Morris we're both huge disappointments with the Jays. Hentgen (who you missed) was a non-factor in 1992 but solid in 1993. Overall, the pitching staff of the 1993 team wasn't particularly strong, the offense carried that squad.

Besides, fast forward 20 years and we could be talking about how great the pitching depth was on this team too if all we do as stare at the names.

You can take it and run with it anyway you like...

I just said they had depth, which they did

tempests_dawn · Post #13 » by **tempests_dawn** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:55 pm

The_Hater wrote:
UN-Owen wrote:The Jays had incredible pitching depth on those previous championship teams

Pitchers that were on one or both championships:

Juan Guzman
Jimmy Key
Dave Stieb
Jack Morris
Dave Stewart
David Wells
David Cone
Todd Stottlemyre
Al Leiter

But you're taking the starting pitchers from 2 different teams, combining them and then not even considering about how well they actually pitched during those specific seasons. Stieb was washed up and a complete non-factor, Wells was terrible as he shuffled between the pen and the rotation, Leiter was average and a part time starter, Stottlemyre was a back-end rotation guy and Stewart and Morris we're both huge disappointments with the Jays. Hentgen (who you missed) was a non-factor in 1992 but solid in 1993. Overall, the pitching staff of the 1993 team wasn't particularly strong, the offense carried that squad.

Besides, fast forward 20 years and we could be talking about how great the pitching depth was on this team too if all we do as stare at the names.

I think for those who actually remember those teams growing up (or you're really old right now and was already a grown-up!), this is what we remember. Just looking at those names, you'd think the Jays had amazing pitching for both teams. But Wells was not what he became in NYY for those Jays teams. Likewise with Leiter. On the flipside, Morris and Stewart were on the other side of the peak unfortunately. Stieb was a non factor...etc.

The_Hater · Post #14 » by **The_Hater** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:02 pm

UN-Owen wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
UN-Owen wrote:The Jays had incredible pitching depth on those previous championship teams

Pitchers that were on one or both championships:

Juan Guzman
Jimmy Key
Dave Stieb
Jack Morris
Dave Stewart
David Wells
David Cone
Todd Stottlemyre
Al Leiter

But you're taking the starting pitchers from 2 different teams, combining them and then not even considering about how well they actually pitched during those specific seasons. Stieb was washed up and a complete non-factor, Wells was terrible as he shuffled between the pen and the rotation, Leiter was average and a part time starter, Stottlemyre was a back-end rotation guy and Stewart and Morris we're both huge disappointments with the Jays. Hentgen (who you missed) was a non-factor in 1992 but solid in 1993. Overall, the pitching staff of the 1993 team wasn't particularly strong, the offense carried that squad.

Besides, fast forward 20 years and we could be talking about how great the pitching depth was on this team too if all we do as stare at the names.

You can take it and run with it anyway you like...

I just said they had depth, which they did

The starting rotation in 1993 was not deep. It was bottom half in the AL in terms of starter ERA and lacked an ace. If it was deep we wouldn't have been forced to watch 27 starts worth of Jack Morris and his 6.19 ERA/-1.5 WAR, so unfortunately your statement is still not correct. It only applies to 1992.

Again, you're throwing the names from 2 different seasons together and making a conclusive statement from it. Headshaking.

LLJ · Post #15 » by **LLJ** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:14 pm

2015 top hitters have more power, but I think 93 top hitters had the higher hitting percentage. Haven't checked if this is still true post Tulo trade though.

Aside from hitting, 93 team kind of goes against the common elements of typical WS champs.

tecumseh18 · Post #16 » by **tecumseh18** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:48 pm

The_Hater wrote:The starting rotation in 1993 was not deep. It was bottom half in the AL in terms of starter ERA and lacked an ace. If it was deep we wouldn't have been forced to watch 27 starts worth of Jack Morris and his 6.19 ERA/-1.5 WAR, so unfortunately your statement is still not correct. It only applies to 1992.

Again, you're throwing the names from 2 different seasons together and making a conclusive statement from it. Headshaking.

Yeah, I remember a conversation with a buddy in early September 1993, expressing strong doubt that their rotation could win another WS. Well we did, but it took a butt-ugly 15-13 win against the Phillies to do it. If Wild Thing's arm hadn't fallen off, we might all be pathetically repeatedly harkening back only to the 1992 team.

Jays rehabilitated Leiter that season, and then he takes off back to New York. Still pisses me off.

RalphWiggum · Post #17 » by **RalphWiggum** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:00 pm

Olerud, Molitor and Alomar were 1,2,3 in AL batting that season. Maybe not the power of the 2015 jays but average wise they were a better hitting team. Having Devon White in center was also huge, he literally caught almost everything that didn't leave the stadium. As good a defensive CF as I've ever seen.

Rhythm043 · Post #18 » by **Rhythm043** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:04 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:The 1992 and 1993 Jays were two different teams. 1992 had the pitching, 1993 had the hitting.

2015 Jays have both, hence the redonkulus run differential.

But hey, shut up! Jays were champions in 1992-93. These Jays aren't anything - yet. And if they make the WS and face the Cards, well, the Cards are a hell of a lot better than the 93 Phillies.

cram · Post #19 » by **cram** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:01 pm

92 and 93 were both better.

satyr9 · Post #20 » by **satyr9** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:02 pm

Regulator wrote:
satyr9 wrote:
Sifu wrote: Nah. You missed missionary, which was added between now and then.

As long as the team collectively practices their reverse cowboy daily, we should be okay.

Always thought it was reverse cowgirl. Freudian slip on your behalf?

Not sure if you've noticed, but our team doesn't have any women on it. I keeps my Freudian firmly affixed at all times. No slippage here.