Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

I like Len, look up all the draft and rookie impression threads.

I believe in his potential... but the key word is potential.

George is a star... Len is potentially a "good" center...

You are thinking with your heart instead of your head, but thats understandable I do the same sometimes.

I feel that I am 100% thinking with my head. I still would not trade Len for him. The Suns biggest strength right now is that they have arguably the best 1-2 center combination in the league. If you trade Len, you destroy that. Plus Len just turned 22 and him learning under Chandler could transform him into an all-star. There are lots of small forwards. The Suns already have one in Warren who looks like a legitimate scorer right now if Hornacek gives him a chance. One year of Golden State winning the title without a dominant post player does not change my mind that historically the NBA is a big man's game and the team's with the best centers win championships. Markieff, Goodwin, picks for George or Warren instead of picks. That is it. The Pacers ask for Len and I laugh them off the phone. He is a franchise center. There is not one team in basketball that would not love to have him on their team.

With Knight, Bledsoe, Chandler and George.... other VETERAN FAs will want to come to Phoenix.

You dont see FAs clamouring to play with Len (not yet anyways, nor its guaranteed)... but with a legit star next to 3 other very very good players, McD doesnt have to do much talking luring FAs... the team structure does it.

But that is an important part that I think everyone is glossing over. We are slowing adding 'very good' assets to the team. Our biggest 'asset' the day McD walked on board was Dragic, with Kieff being 2nd. And we had literally nothing else worthwhile--since then we've added Len, Chandler, Knight, and Bledsoe. It takes time to build a team from the ground up, which McD basically is in the midst of.

Honestly, what would you rather have, the 4 mentioned above + 3 future non-Suns picks, or Dragic? Kieff is still here, so he's a net sum zero, I think the term is. We also have Warren, Booker, and Goodwin who might turn out to be something. So I ask you, are we closer to signing a 'star' now than we were 2+ years ago? Did LMA seriously consider the Suns this off-season? Would he have the day McD came on board?

I'm beating a dead horse, here, but again, we need to be patient. McD is building something, and has the assets to make it work. It just might take another year or two. And those blaming McD for not being there yet can simply look over to the Morri. They've managed, as tdjm mentioned, to 'ruin' what could have been a decent asset for us, either via trade, or as a 'very good' PF who helps complete the team.

I think too many fans are too quick to judge, and are forgetting just how much McD has built so far.

[NoKneeBledsoe]

OMG then what if we had LMA and Paul George from that trade

Bledsoe
Knight
George
LMA
Chandler

we win the finals!!!

I wouldn't want a hurt PG for all of those assets.

I want to see what Len can do in the future with Chandler mentoring him.

[letsgosuns]

Kyrie Irving might be out until January. Sucks for him. http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2015/08/kyrie-irving-likely-to-miss-start-of-season.html

[Fo-Real]

Man, I really wish our insiders gag order this offseason wasnt so tight. Would like to know how they are leaning on the kief matter!!!!! Just one hit of crack please.. I NEED IT BABY!!!! YA LIKE THIS WATCH!!! ITS YOURS!?!?

[bwgood77]

Man, I really wish our insiders gag order this offseason wasnt so tight. Would like to know how they are leaning on the kief matter!!!!! Just one hit of crack please.. I NEED IT BABY!!!! YA LIKE THIS WATCH!!! ITS YOURS!?!?

Of course we would all like to know, but if we want the best return for Markieff, the best thing for the FO to do is keep their mouth shut. And if we are willing to go into the season with Markieff as our starting PF, again, the best thing is for them to keep their mouth shut and pretend this whole Morris thing doesn't even exist. Then we see how the beginning of the season plays out.

There is ZERO need to trade him unless we have a good offer right now.

IF he somehow creates a toxic situation, and I doubt Markieff will, then maybe they trade him for less than value if the playoffs are their primary goal, because they wouldn't want to waste time. I'd still probably wait until December 15th though, when better trades may be available. Bench if it comes to that, but I don't think it will.

[edmjet]

I never really post much on here just read all of your guys great posts on our beloved Suns! I have been a die hard suns fan since 1988- The good old days when the old mad house at McDowell was always sold out and always rocking and rolling big time!! I just hope that the Suns can turn the corner and become great again! Maybe with a good trade of Kieff and fillers, we might actually get better and get better chemistry overall! Keiff is a cancer right now! Who knows maybe Tyson can help him some idk. It sounds like he's so bitter and jaded that he's already got his bags packed and ready to bail out. Dude has some talent no doubt, but he is a loose canon and can explode too easily! It's time to throw away the trash and get back to a it's all about the Team Attitude! Not a huge Sarver fan either. He's gotten a tad better, but he's all about the Benjamins and his bottom dollar. He's a banker man!! Go Suns , and hopefully the organization gets back to glory days and sold out every night at the arena!!! Optimistic!!!

[bwgood77]

I never really post much on here just read all of your guys great posts on our beloved Suns! I have been a die hard suns fan since 1988- The good old days when the old mad house at McDowell was always sold out and always rocking and rolling big time!! I just hope that the Suns can turn the corner and become great again! Maybe with a good trade of Kieff and fillers, we might actually get better and get better chemistry overall! Keiff is a cancer right now! Who knows maybe Tyson can help him some idk. It sounds like he's so bitter and jaded that he's already got his bags packed and ready to bail out. Dude has some talent no doubt, but he is a loose canon and can explode too easily! It's time to throw away the trash and get back to a it's all about the Team Attitude! Not a huge Sarver fan either. He's gotten a tad better, but he's all about the Benjamins and his bottom dollar. He's a banker man!! Go Suns , and hopefully the organization gets back to glory days and sold out every night at the arena!!! Optimistic!!!

Welcome to the board...you became a big time fan about the same time I did. I had a poster when I was a little kid with Don Buse, Ronnie Lee, Walter Davis, Gar Heard, Truck Robinson, and Paul Westphal on it, but I never was really vested in watching them much until KJ took a 28 team to a 55 win team. Hope to see you post more.

[Damkac]

I don't think Suns backcourt being small is a big problem. Bledsoe is just 6'1 but he plays much bigger than that. According to basketball-reference last season he was 5th in rebounds and 5th in blocks per game among all NBA guards. Not bad.
Knight at 6'3 is undersized at SG but this position is very weak today. Other than Harden and Klay I don't think there are many SG's that could regularly destroy Knight.

[Saberestar]

Man, I really wish our insiders gag order this offseason wasnt so tight. Would like to know how they are leaning on the kief matter!!!!! Just one hit of crack please.. I NEED IT BABY!!!! YA LIKE THIS WATCH!!! ITS YOURS!?!?

Of course we would all like to know, but if we want the best return for Markieff, the best thing for the FO to do is keep their mouth shut. And if we are willing to go into the season with Markieff as our starting PF, again, the best thing is for them to keep their mouth shut and pretend this whole Morris thing doesn't even exist. Then we see how the beginning of the season plays out.

There is ZERO need to trade him unless we have a good offer right now.

IF he somehow creates a toxic situation, and I doubt Markieff will, then maybe they trade him for less than value if the playoffs are their primary goal, because they wouldn't want to waste time. I'd still probably wait until December 15th though, when better trades may be available. Bench if it comes to that, but I don't think it will.

Do you really think that? He is not a professional and he has showed it enough times... he is dumb and he will not make logical things, this is clear to me.

[Damkac]

Right, I wouldn't count on Markieff's professionalism.

[bwgood77]

Do you really think that? He is not a professional and he has showed it enough times... he is dumb and he will not make logical things, this is clear to me.

I just don't want to make any assumptions. Markieff, besides the technicals, which didn't occur as much until his brother was there, has been fairly professional. Even in his mention of a trade, seemed fairly professional considering his bro probably told him he needed to get out of Phoenix.

He obviously has more loyalty to his brother than to the Suns, and there are rumors that he will make it difficult, but those are just rumors. I wouldn't trade him for peanuts based on that. I'm not saying I think he will definitely be professional, and he could very well be toxic, but I would wait and see unless there was a great offer that made us equivalent or better.

[edmjet]

I never really post much on here just read all of your guys great posts on our beloved Suns! I have been a die hard suns fan since 1988- The good old days when the old mad house at McDowell was always sold out and always rocking and rolling big time!! I just hope that the Suns can turn the corner and become great again! Maybe with a good trade of Kieff and fillers, we might actually get better and get better chemistry overall! Keiff is a cancer right now! Who knows maybe Tyson can help him some idk. It sounds like he's so bitter and jaded that he's already got his bags packed and ready to bail out. Dude has some talent no doubt, but he is a loose canon and can explode too easily! It's time to throw away the trash and get back to a it's all about the Team Attitude! Not a huge Sarver fan either. He's gotten a tad better, but he's all about the Benjamins and his bottom dollar. He's a banker man!! Go Suns , and hopefully the organization gets back to glory days and sold out every night at the arena!!! Optimistic!!!

Welcome to the board...you became a big time fan about the same time I did. I had a poster when I was a little kid with Don Buse, Ronnie Lee, Walter Davis, Gar Heard, Truck Robinson, and Paul Westphal on it, but I never was really vested in watching them much until KJ took a 28 team to a 55 win team. Hope to see you post more.

[edmjet]

Thanks man! That's cool you got that poster! Sweet! KJ was a freak athlete, loved that wicked dunk on Hakeem back in the day! Those dudes just played tough and together!
I think Jeff Hornacek is a great coach- still learning the coaching trade though. But he was a fierce competitor and I think he will get this team rolling!!!

[jredsaz]

When using Per 36 numbers the important thing to remember is "confidence interval".

For example, No Knees uses the example of a player scoring 2 points and 1 rebound in 1 minute of play. The Per 36 metric extrapolates that the player would have stats of 72 points and 36 rebounds if he played the full 36 minutes. This is where the confidence interval comes in. If a player tried to extrapolate 1 minute of play to a full 36 minutes of play he would have a confidence interval of 1/36 = 2.8% likelihood that he would actually achieve the full Per 36 number. If you try to extrapolate 1 minute of play to a Per 36 minute number you have only a very low 2.8% chance this would happen.

If Devon Booker player 18 minutes and scored 15 points and 5 rebounds, his Per 36 metric would predict 30 points and 10 rebounds with a confidence interval of 18/36 = 50% likelihood that he would actually achieve the full Per 36 stats. If Hornacek left him in the entire game there is a decent chance he achieves the predicted Per 36 stats.

If Los Soles or other stats guys are out there please let me know if I interpreted the concept of "confidence interval" correctly.

Thats one of the smarter posts I have seen on here. Thanks for the knowledge.

[Jarlaxle0204]

I kind of hope Markieff is still around for media day just to watch the circus.

Also, we'd probably get more for him at the deadline if he is willing to "put up" with us for a couple of months.

[jcsunsfan]

I kind of hope Markieff is still around for media day just to watch the circus.

Also, we'd probably get more for him at the deadline if he is willing to "put up" with us for a couple of months.

I hope the media just ignores him, like he has ignored them. Wouldn't that be sweet. Just move on to someone else and let Markieff mope in the corner.

Honestly, the threats about showing up late, not talking to mgmt, one-word answers to the coach, limited interaction with teammates. That all is GOOD from the Suns standpoint. No screaming at the coach during practice or games, no bad influences on teammates, no backtalk to mgmt, just silent hard play. I like it.

[letsgosuns]

Everyone but Chandler, Teletovich, and Morris is already in Phoenix playing pickup games. http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/8/28/9219555/phoenix-suns-voluntary-offseason-workouts-already-going-hard Obviously Markieff will be last if he is still even on the team by then.

[jcsunsfan]

As an aside to all of that. Devin Booker has charisma, his personality is magnetic. If his game ends up being all star level, the marketing possibilities will go through the roof. He will end up selling alot of stuff.

[letsgosuns]

Idk how many of you are familiar with Teletovich's game because I do not know much about him. However I just watched this video and it gave me a new appreciation for what he could bring to the Suns. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts-pzlziis4

A few things stood out to me. First, I had no idea he was that athletic and could dunk like that. Second, his shooting range is virtually unlimited. And third, he is a very fast shooter.

He seems like the perfect power forward to play next to Chandler and Len and I see no reason why he cannot be the starting power forward. His release is far quicker than Markieff's and he looks like a much purer shooter. I imagine he would open up the lanes for Bledsoe and Knight and the spacing would be better. He never averaged more than 22 minutes a game with the Nets so more playing time could improve his game. Also, everyone knows the Nets play a very slow paced offensive game and he might benefit in an uptempo offense.

[Saberestar]

Idk how many of you are familiar with Teletovich's game because I do not know much about him. However I just watched this video and it gave me a new appreciation for what he could bring to the Suns. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts-pzlziis4

A few things stood out to me. First, I had no idea he was that athletic and could dunk like that. Second, his shooting range is virtually unlimited. And third, he is a very fast shooter.

He seems like the perfect power forward to play next to Chandler and Len and I see no reason why he cannot be the starting power forward. His release is far quicker than Markieff's and he looks like a much purer shooter. I imagine he would open up the lanes for Bledsoe and Knight and the spacing would be better. He never averaged more than 22 minutes a game with the Nets so more playing time could improve his game. Also, everyone knows the Nets play a very slow paced offensive game and he might benefit in an uptempo offense.

Teletovic is an amazing shooter but he is average at best on everything but that. Good backup, that is for sure, but I don't think he can be more than that.I would prefer Tucker like an starter at PF next to Warren.