Is Daniels worth a big extension/2016 Free Agents

[crkone]

And don't forget he had 3 kicks blocked last year.

[askdavescat]

Just my opinion, looking at the upcoming FA season ( not the current roster cuts ), working down the Unrestricted list...

Crosby - bring him back for $3.5M. Dude's been money since his terrible 2012? season, deserves a little raise.

Barclay - unless something really changes fast, let him go. Probably back to drafting tackles at the end of the first round for GB.

Daniels - based on the money he's looking for, I let him go. I wouldn't invest that kind of money on an undersized DL. I want to see what Pennell can bring with consistent playing time, and Gaston's flashed enough to at worst PS this year, and then bring into the rotation next year if he continues to develop.

Neal & Perry - I'd cut Perry this year, and let Neal go after this year. For the money they're making, they need to be able to cover at least a little, and they can't. Mulumba, Elliott, and Hubbard can do what they do well enough, for about 1/3 the cost.

Quarless - with all the developmental TE's GB's brought in, I'd let Quarless go out and see what he gets offered. If he comes back for a modest price ( less than what he's getting now ), then fine, bring him back. Otherwise, let him go.

Starks - it's been great, but after this season, Neal / Harris can take over at about half the cost.

Raji & Guion - short deal, for around the salary they're getting this year. Anything beyond that, see ya.

Richardson - I get the emphasis on special teams, but safeties have to have some coverage ability. Dude can't cover, see ya.

Tolzien - try to keep at 1M to 1.5M.

Goode - fine on vet minimum.

Kuhn - thanks, it's been great, but end of the line.

Hayward - I don't trust Hayward to stay on the field, and I don't trust his ability to play outside. Hyde can play the slot just as well as Hayward, and with Randall, Rollins, and Gunter, there's no reason to pay Hayward too.

[RRyder823]

[img]http://media.jrn.com/images/Packers+2016+Free+Agents.png[/img]

Just my opinion, looking at the upcoming FA season ( not the current roster cuts ), working down the Unrestricted list...

Crosby - bring him back for $3.5M. Dude's been money since his terrible 2012? season, deserves a little raise.

Barclay - unless something really changes fast, let him go. Probably back to drafting tackles at the end of the first round for GB.

Daniels - based on the money he's looking for, I let him go. I wouldn't invest that kind of money on an undersized DL. I want to see what Pennell can bring with consistent playing time, and Gaston's flashed enough to at worst PS this year, and then bring into the rotation next year if he continues to develop.

Neal & Perry - I'd cut Perry this year, and let Neal go after this year. For the money they're making, they need to be able to cover at least a little, and they can't. Mulumba, Elliott, and Hubbard can do what they do well enough, for about 1/3 the cost.

Quarless - with all the developmental TE's GB's brought in, I'd let Quarless go out and see what he gets offered. If he comes back for a modest price ( less than what he's getting now ), then fine, bring him back. Otherwise, let him go.

Starks - it's been great, but after this season, Neal / Harris can take over at about half the cost.

Raji & Guion - short deal, for around the salary they're getting this year. Anything beyond that, see ya.

Richardson - I get the emphasis on special teams, but safeties have to have some coverage ability. Dude can't cover, see ya.

Tolzien - try to keep at 1M to 1.5M.

Goode - fine on vet minimum.

Kuhn - thanks, it's been great, but end of the line.

Hayward - I don't trust Hayward to stay on the field, and I don't trust his ability to play outside. Hyde can play the slot just as well as Hayward, and with Randall, Rollins, and Gunther, there's no reason to pay Hayward too.

I'll just reply to what you think on the players you listed.

Crosby- Should be back. Agree with ya there.

Barclay- Well he's been playing a position where he's probably 3rd or 4th on the depth chart so I'd have to see him a lil more a RT before I say 100% just cut him loose. But why would we start drafting tackles at the bottom of the 1st again? Our starters are pretty good.

Daniels- honestly it would be devestating for the Packers to lose him on the Dline. He's one of the better 3-4 ends in the league but it depends on price point. It's anyone's guess whether they meet in the middle but going from Daniels to Pennel and Gaston next year would be a HUGE culture shock. Only if Jones makes a leap do I not seriously consider paying Daniels 9 mill per.

Neal&Perry- Why cut Perry this year? It makes no sense. The few million the Pack save doesn't do them any good this season and only lowers there talent and depth. Both are most likely to test FA and sign elsewhere next year but woot for the comp picks from them even if it's only 5th rounders which would be another reason why it wouldn't make sense to cut Perry this year. Then again maybe not picking up his option effects that. I'm not sure

Quarless- Agreed. No argument here.

Richardson- Once again. Agreed.

Tolzien- He's gone after this year unless Hundley falls flat on his face in practice as the season progresses. He'll got to a better situation were he could potentially play. Not stay in one where he's in a battle to be the #2 behind ARod

Goode- Agreed

Kuhn- Agreed. It's the swan song for Kuhn this year.

Hayward- It comes down to his health and how our rookie CBs play when the lights come on. If he has an injury riddled year he could be back on a modest deal but if he has a huge year and stays healthy it'll be hard to justify simply letting him walk because there's potential behind him. I think he'll be more then fine on the outside too so theres also that. But if he's only just pretty good to really good and say Rollins or Randall look great then yeah he'll probably be getting paid and be gone to the highest bidder

[humanrefutation]

Crosby has rebounded nicely from his slump. He'll be re-signed.

You know, I thought the same thing, but looking at his stats, they weren't all that impressive. He was awful in 2012, very good in 2013, but he slumped to a solidly replacement-level kicker in 2014. I know the weather has to get factored in to a certain degree, but he wasn't great.

Replacement level league wide isn't replacement level for outdoor cold weather teams though. There is nobody out there in free agency who they'll be able to lure away from other teams either. They'll have to draft and develop a kicker to save $1-2 mil.

Yeah, but among the kickers ahead of him on the 40-49 list, I counted 11 kickers that kick in cold weather. In fact, among cold weather kickers, only four kickers were as good/worse.

He had an excellent 2013, but his 2014 year was mediocre. I'd be disinclined to give him a raise in 2016 unless he steps up again this season.

[Profound23]

I am actually glad he wants this much. Make him earn it. If he does, we will be in a tough spot. The defensive line free agents are scarce next year.

[crkone]

You know, I thought the same thing, but looking at his stats, they weren't all that impressive. He was awful in 2012, very good in 2013, but he slumped to a solidly replacement-level kicker in 2014. I know the weather has to get factored in to a certain degree, but he wasn't great.

Replacement level league wide isn't replacement level for outdoor cold weather teams though. There is nobody out there in free agency who they'll be able to lure away from other teams either. They'll have to draft and develop a kicker to save $1-2 mil.

Yeah, but among the kickers ahead of him on the 40-49 list, I counted 11 kickers that kick in cold weather. In fact, among cold weather kickers, only four kickers were as good/worse.

He had an excellent 2013, but his 2014 year was mediocre. I'd be disinclined to give him a raise in 2016 unless he steps up again this season.

He was 5 of 7, not much to go on there since 18 kickers also missed at least two from that distance. He was 11 of 12 from 30-39 with the one miss being blocked. He was 4-7 from 50+ with 2 of the misses being blocked. He also had 2 XPs blocked. Special teams was awful and allowed pressure on almost every kick last season.

[humanrefutation]

Replacement level league wide isn't replacement level for outdoor cold weather teams though. There is nobody out there in free agency who they'll be able to lure away from other teams either. They'll have to draft and develop a kicker to save $1-2 mil.

Yeah, but among the kickers ahead of him on the 40-49 list, I counted 11 kickers that kick in cold weather. In fact, among cold weather kickers, only four kickers were as good/worse.

He had an excellent 2013, but his 2014 year was mediocre. I'd be disinclined to give him a raise in 2016 unless he steps up again this season.

He was 5 of 7, not much to go on there since 18 kickers also missed at least two from that distance. He was 11 of 12 from 30-39 with the one miss being blocked. He was 4-7 from 50+ with 2 of the misses being blocked. He also had 2 XPs blocked. Special teams was awful and allowed pressure on almost every kick last season.

Either way, though, it proves my point. He's either an average kicker, or he's worse depending on your interpretation of the stats. But he's definitely not markedly better - not enough to deserve being paid like one of the top 5 kickers in the NFL (which is what he's getting). So, I don't see where the argument is for giving him a raise. Continuity?

[WeekapaugGroove]

Pack will get a deal done with Daniels if he plays well. It's all just posturing at this point.

[M-C-G]

OH good, I was wondering when we would finally get to discuss kicker free agency!!

3M is way too much for a kicker and the type of contract that makes you have to choose between Daniels or Hayward if you have too many of them. I sincerely doubt both are back next season, given what pass rushers get and given the contracts we just saw go to Devon House and Tramon.

[askdavescat]

Neal&Perry- Why cut Perry this year? It makes no sense. The few million the Pack save doesn't do them any good this season and only lowers there talent and depth. Both are most likely to test FA and sign elsewhere next year but woot for the comp picks from them even if it's only 5th rounders which would be another reason why it wouldn't make sense to cut Perry this year. Then again maybe not picking up his option effects that. I'm not surer

To me, if I'm TT / MM, I cut Perry because I'm sick of looking at him standing on the sidelines, sitting in the tub, whatever.... For one, it can serve as a not so subtle message to the rest of the roster that if they can't be on the field and productive, they can't be here for long. That may sound silly, but that's a message that needs to reverberate through a locker room once in a while ( see Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys ). More than that though, they've got 3 seasons of development invested into Mulumba, and 2 now for Elliott and Hubbard. There's still potential upside to be tapped with them, and if I'm GB, I'm not risking trying to get them to ( and keeping them on ) the PS for a year, when they know ( I believe ) they're not bringing Perry back anyways. Give the young guys the snaps and see what they can do with them. They've seen enough of Perry, and again, if I were TT / MM, there's no point in delaying the inevitable.

[El Duderino]

Daniels is going to be expensive because he's really good. Him, Hayward and Crosby are the only three on that list I'd consider must-signs.

Interior pass rushers get paid. If we don't pay Daniels, a 4-3 defense team will where he might be a little better fit scheme wise.

[RRyder823]

Neal&Perry- Why cut Perry this year? It makes no sense. The few million the Pack save doesn't do them any good this season and only lowers there talent and depth. Both are most likely to test FA and sign elsewhere next year but woot for the comp picks from them even if it's only 5th rounders which would be another reason why it wouldn't make sense to cut Perry this year. Then again maybe not picking up his option effects that. I'm not surer

To me, if I'm TT / MM, I cut Perry because I'm sick of looking at him standing on the sidelines, sitting in the tub, whatever.... For one, it can serve as a not so subtle message to the rest of the roster that if they can't be on the field and productive, they can't be here for long. That may sound silly, but that's a message that needs to reverberate through a locker room once in a while ( see Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys ). More than that though, they've got 3 seasons of development invested into Mulumba, and 2 now for Elliott and Hubbard. There's still potential upside to be tapped with them, and if I'm GB, I'm not risking trying to get them to ( and keeping them on ) the PS for a year, when they know ( I believe ) they're not bringing Perry back anyways. Give the young guys the snaps and see what they can do with them. They've seen enough of Perry, and again, if I were TT / MM, there's no point in delaying the inevitable.

Well this is where we disagree then. I don't think they're all that good with any potential upside.

[El Duderino]

To me, if I'm TT / MM, I cut Perry because I'm sick of looking at him standing on the sidelines, sitting in the tub, whatever.... For one, it can serve as a not so subtle message to the rest of the roster that if they can't be on the field and productive, they can't be here for long. That may sound silly, but that's a message that needs to reverberate through a locker room once in a while ( see Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys ). More than that though, they've got 3 seasons of development invested into Mulumba, and 2 now for Elliott and Hubbard. There's still potential upside to be tapped with them, and if I'm GB, I'm not risking trying to get them to ( and keeping them on ) the PS for a year, when they know ( I believe ) they're not bringing Perry back anyways. Give the young guys the snaps and see what they can do with them. They've seen enough of Perry, and again, if I were TT / MM, there's no point in delaying the inevitable.

Well this is where we disagree then. I don't think they're all that good with any potential upside.

I agree with you on Mulumba, Elliott, and Hubbard.

Elliot has flashed an ability to rush the passer here and there in regular season games, not just the preseason games, so i expect him to be kept. Mulumba though has a dream OLB body and is solid vs the run, but when forced to face quality lineman, he just can't generate pressure often enough. At this point it's hard for me to envision that changing. Pass rushing is a skill that can only be taught and learned to a degree. Hubbard looks more like a spare part guy who will be lucky to hang around the league as a practice squad/last guy to make a roster player.

Perry certainly has had real trouble staying healthy, but to me it makes no sense to cut him if he's healthy to start the season. If he gets hurt during the regular season again where he has to miss multiple games, then yea waive the guy and call up a Hubbard/Mulumba type off OLB on the practice squad.

[crkone]

Yeah, but among the kickers ahead of him on the 40-49 list, I counted 11 kickers that kick in cold weather. In fact, among cold weather kickers, only four kickers were as good/worse.

He had an excellent 2013, but his 2014 year was mediocre. I'd be disinclined to give him a raise in 2016 unless he steps up again this season.

He was 5 of 7, not much to go on there since 18 kickers also missed at least two from that distance. He was 11 of 12 from 30-39 with the one miss being blocked. He was 4-7 from 50+ with 2 of the misses being blocked. He also had 2 XPs blocked. Special teams was awful and allowed pressure on almost every kick last season.

Either way, though, it proves my point. He's either an average kicker, or he's worse depending on your interpretation of the stats. But he's definitely not markedly better - not enough to deserve being paid like one of the top 5 kickers in the NFL (which is what he's getting). So, I don't see where the argument is for giving him a raise. Continuity?

So you want to spend a draft pick in Rodgers prime who may be slightly better than Crosby in an extremely optimistic scenario? Especially following a "down year" where Crosby had 5 kicks blocked and had to rush every kick to just to get it off? To save $1-3 mil a year? They can find room for Daniels who will either be deserving of an expensive contract or won't be, and Hayward if he's actually better that much better than the 2 high draft picks and the fantastic undrafted free agent Gunter.

[humanrefutation]

He was 5 of 7, not much to go on there since 18 kickers also missed at least two from that distance. He was 11 of 12 from 30-39 with the one miss being blocked. He was 4-7 from 50+ with 2 of the misses being blocked. He also had 2 XPs blocked. Special teams was awful and allowed pressure on almost every kick last season.

Either way, though, it proves my point. He's either an average kicker, or he's worse depending on your interpretation of the stats. But he's definitely not markedly better - not enough to deserve being paid like one of the top 5 kickers in the NFL (which is what he's getting). So, I don't see where the argument is for giving him a raise. Continuity?

So you want to spend a draft pick in Rodgers prime who may be slightly better than Crosby in an extremely optimistic scenario? Especially following a "down year" where Crosby had 5 kicks blocked and had to rush every kick to just to get it off? To save $1-3 mil a year? They can find room for Daniels who will either be deserving of an expensive contract or won't be, and Hayward if he's actually better that much better than the 2 high draft picks and the fantastic undrafted free agent Gunter.

It's a fair point, but I'd rather give 1-3M more to a guy like Daniels or Hayward to keep them here than give it to an average kicker. If we can afford all three, sure, but I honestly don't think Crosby is worth being paid like one of the best kickers on the NFL when his performance doesn't back that up.

[Xanadu]

Can't believe some are saying let Daniels go. He is worth ten I think he is very highly rated according to PFF and he is the emotional leader of the Defense. He seems to be the only one with fire and just because he doesn't get the flashy stats doesn't mean he is not a top d-lineman in the league. I would say he is top ten and we would miss him horribly more so than we missed Jenkins IMO.

[crkone]

Can't believe some are saying let Daniels go. He is worth ten I think he is very highly rated according to PFF and he is the emotional leader of the Defense. He seems to be the only one with fire and just because he doesn't get the flashy stats doesn't mean he is not a top d-lineman in the league. I would say he is top ten and we would miss him horribly more so than we missed Jenkins IMO.

I think it's only if Daniels is expecting stupid money. TT will pay him what he's worth.

[FAH1223]

TT doesn't let his young stars who he drafted just leave after their rookie contracts

And Crosby should get a new deal, he's been on fire in camp and in preseason.

Hayward probably depends on his health.

[SpursNBucks]

Crosby has rebounded nicely from his slump. He'll be re-signed.

Last year he ranked 23rd in FG%. He's never had a big leg for kickoffs - only 39.32% were non-returnable - touch-backs. Carolina had the best 74.16%. The best teams - Indy, Denver, Dallas, NE, and Seattle all finished between 3rd and 17th.

The kicking and punting on the Packers is not good. I am glad they are making a strong effort to improve coverage and return teams.