Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition]

[ceiling raiser]

I think for the most part the premise of the thread is self-explanatory. I see these pop up all the time on boards like this, and decided to start this after searching some old RealGM threads and finding a couple variations on the topic on the main board and some team subforums.

To start us off:

I presently think 92 MJ is his peak. His jumper was on point, and he was still a threat to drive all the time. Terrific motor on both ends, and with two years of the triangle under his (and the team's) belt, he played very effectively in the offense. I don't think the post game was where it was in say 96 and 97 when he wreaked havoc with his turnaround fadeaway, but after what seems to have been three full off-seasons working with Grover and adding significant muscle, he had a ton of functional strength to do whatever he wanted on the court.

(Apologies mods if this type of thread isn't allowed, feel free to lock. I've seen a few iterations of it on the main board, and thought it could be a fun thing here while we're waiting for the season to start.)

[eminence]

Maybe not quite as unpopular here, but I think Chris Paul is underappreciated. In my opinion he/Magic peaked on the same level, and pretty well above other point guards.

[ceiling raiser]

Maybe not quite as unpopular here, but I think Chris Paul is underappreciated. In my opinion he/Magic peaked on the same level, and pretty well above other point guards.

How would you rank their top 5 combined seasons?

[Purch]

Maybe not quite as unpopular here, but I think Chris Paul is underappreciated. In my opinion he/Magic peaked on the same level, and pretty well above other point guards.

Funny cause my unpopular opinion is that Paul has been drastically overrated. Outside of 08/09 his seasons haven't really impressed me. And even then I thought the magic comparisons were premature. Thought he was great, but thought his stats overstated his impact. I don't belive that any of his seasons are as good as what Curry accomplished last year.

[Quotatious]

KG over Kobe and Kobe/Dirk about equal (Bryant getting only a slight edge), is a pretty unpopular opinion, I guess. Maybe not so much on the PC board, but outside of it, most people would think I'm insane if I told them that

Peak Wade/Dr. J over peak Bird/Magic (that's an idea I'm toying with right now) would be another.

Also, Oscar was IMO probably just as good as Magic and Bird, he just wasn't nearly as lucky as they were in terms of team situation, and doesn't have nearly as much team success, but individually, I think he's about as good as they were (I currently have them 9th, 10th and 11th on my all-time list).

Dr. J over Magic/Bird IMO makes sense, too (because of his great longevity, and arguably higher peak - I certainly don't dismiss the ABA or think that it was a "joke" league, like some people do, and I think his finals performance against Denver in the '76 finals was on par with the first three-peat MJ and three-peat Shaq, it was absolutely GOAT level).

I would strongly consider putting Gilmore over Ewing, too (better longevity, more consistent playoff performer).

Oh, and as far as Jordan's peak - if I had to choose a year other than '91, I'd probably go with '88 or '89 (because of insane boxscore and motor, two-way play). Granted, me and you have a different approach to analyzing basketball, I tend to take boxscore into account pretty heavily. 1990 would be ahead of '92 for me, as well. I'd probably go with '93 over '92, as well.
That's similar to '09 vs '12/'13 LeBron.

[70sFan]

Magic over LeBorn on all time list looks unpopular here. I'm super high on Magic offense, maybe I'm biased but I've never seen as good offensive player as him.
West better than Kobe also isn't popular neither is Havlicek over Pippen.
But probably the least popular is Bob Pettit over Barkley on all time list. I think both are close at peak, but for career I'd go for Pettit.

[CaliBullsFan]

Kobe(3peat era) was better than MJ defensively

[ShotCreator]

Magic Johnson and Larry Bird were just generational(Wade, Bryant, Nowitzki, Curry)-type talents who happened to have stacked teams in the 80's, so their championship- count and accolades are a lot higher than the aforementioned players. People put their best years on par with the Shaq, Wilt, LeBron, Jordan mythic god-level peaks but they were never there.

[Quotatious]

Magic Johnson and Larry Bird were just generational(Wade, Bryant, Nowitzki, Curry)-type talents who happened to have stacked teams in the 80's, so their championship- count and accolades are a lot higher than the aforementioned players. People put their best years on par with the Shaq, Wilt, LeBron, Jordan mythic god-level peaks but they were never there.

I agree with that. I think even Hakeem and Duncan had clearly better peaks than both of them.

[mysticOscar]

Magic Johnson and Larry Bird were just generational(Wade, Bryant, Nowitzki, Curry)-type talents who happened to have stacked teams in the 80's, so their championship- count and accolades are a lot higher than the aforementioned players. People put their best years on par with the Shaq, Wilt, LeBron, Jordan mythic god-level peaks but they were never there.

I respect your opinion....however, since you have grouped Curry, Wade and Nowitzki on the same level as Bird and Magic...

Can I ask...how many seasons do you think Bird/Magic were considered top 3 players in the league? How many times do you think Wade, Novitzki and Curry? Now include there accomplishments.

Sure...you can compare stats across different era's and pretend its comparing apples to apples.

But I prefer to judge players on how dominant they were relative to there competition...just my opinon

[Hawk]

I might get banned for this.

I can't put Russell in my Top 10. I can't. I have think about this over and over, but I can't. I don't think he is a better player than (no order):

Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, LeBron, Garnett, Kobe, Dirk, West, Oscar, Erving.

I put a lot of weight in my all-time list in the order I would take players to build a franchise, while being surrounded by average players and I think all these players would do a better job.

I also think Robinson, Wallace, Duncan, Garnett, Olajuwon were better defenders than him. Their impact MIGHT have been lower than Russell's, but I would like to see the players I mentioned above playing with no 3 point line. I consider Robinson the GOAT defender, with Wallace as a close second.

[theonlyclutch]

A couple of things:
-I believe what Durant has shown already has exceeded Larry Bird's Peak, and what Curry did last season is likely on an equal level

-If I am a modern GM in charge of building a contender, I will take '15 Harden over any version of Kobe, this does not necessarily mean Harden peaked higher, but I just prefer what Harden brings to the table

-I have Dirk Nowitzki slightly above Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird, among others...

[Quick Eye]

At the risk of being called an idiot for the 500th time, I'll let this rip and run away.

1) Oscar Robertson was every bit as good as Magic and really doesn't take the backseat to any person at his position. If there was any way possible Oscar would have been Maurice Stokes' teammate (assuming his situation never happened and Cincy still could have drafted Oscar), then Oscar would have had a ton more success in Cincy. A little more winning would be all it takes to put Oscar's resume against anybody's.

2) Even with Elgin Baylor's volume shooting, his GOAT level rebounding (for the small forward position) and nifty passing still makes him a net positive, portable to the modern era and up there with any small forward in the game. I still think if it wasn't for the knee problems (from around 63-64 on), Baylor would have been a better player (aged better). Even with those bad knees, he still rebounded the tar out of the ball. I'm much higher on Baylor than many people.

3) Wilt Chamberlain was just circumstances from being the undeniable GOAT. I heard a rumor that Boston wanted to draft Chamberlain but obviously couldn't. If Boston had Russell and Chamberlain together, it would have been a better version of Duncan-Robinson because Russell-Chamberlain would have played together while both were still in their primes. Lower Wilt's stats, increase the efficiency, add in a ton of rings (seriously, would Boston have lost any playoffs with this team) and Wilt's the GOAT. Obviously, life didn't turn out that way.

[LoyalKing]

I don't agree with most guys on the board when it comes to the definition of "peak".

Peak is the best year that a player had, but it doesn't have to be necessarily the year that a player had the most PPG in the RS+playoffs (and that's what most guys use)

Take Lebron for example

People usually have his peak @ 2009 when he was 24 y/o because that season he went nuts in the playoffs. But was that really the best version of Lebron that we've seen ? Not to me.
2012/2013 Lebron was a better and more mature version of Lebron, hence the best version of him.

[Ballerhogger]

KG was is way overrated on the real gm TOP 100. Should be 13-120 range.

There's been few polls these past few months with KG vs David Robinson , Moses Malone and Dirk i think and KG has not won or has not won by large margin .
KG is ranked 11th as of now while David Robinson is ranked 18th. Robinson won a poll not too long ago , It was 3-4 page thread but you could see how it was going.

[70sFan]

At the risk of being called an idiot for the 500th time, I'll let this rip and run away.

1) Oscar Robertson was every bit as good as Magic and really doesn't take the backseat to any person at his position. If there was any way possible Oscar would have been Maurice Stokes' teammate (assuming his situation never happened and Cincy still could have drafted Oscar), then Oscar would have had a ton more success in Cincy. A little more winning would be all it takes to put Oscar's resume against anybody's.

2) Even with Elgin Baylor's volume shooting, his GOAT level rebounding (for the small forward position) and nifty passing still makes him a net positive, portable to the modern era and up there with any small forward in the game. I still think if it wasn't for the knee problems (from around 63-64 on), Baylor would have been a better player (aged better). Even with those bad knees, he still rebounded the tar out of the ball. I'm much higher on Baylor than many people.

3) Wilt Chamberlain was just circumstances from being the undeniable GOAT. I heard a rumor that Boston wanted to draft Chamberlain but obviously couldn't. If Boston had Russell and Chamberlain together, it would have been a better version of Duncan-Robinson because Russell-Chamberlain would have played together while both were still in their primes. Lower Wilt's stats, increase the efficiency, add in a ton of rings (seriously, would Boston have lost any playoffs with this team) and Wilt's the GOAT. Obviously, life didn't turn out that way.

Acually I agree with almost everything you wrote. I think Magic and Oscar are on the same level at their peak. Also, Baylor was great underrated all-around player - one of the greatest rebounding forward and great passer, not only "volume" scorer.

[Dr Positivity]

Curry vs Westbrook should be over. Choosing Westbrook over Curry is like picking Melo over Durant in 2012 or 2013 or so

Bird is below Kobe and KG on my ATL. Not sure if Bird even has higher peak, so when taking into account longevity I feel Kobe and KG should be higher. Bird/West/Oscar is close between all 3 for me

[Ballerhogger]

My other unpopular opinion is there is a serious lack appreciation for career achievements. For example all nba first team and etc.

[Quotatious]

Oh, and one more - I'd take Billups over Isiah. Comparable team success, clearly better advanced numbers, more portable.

[Shot Clock]

I generally rank Duncan lower than most around here. Not much but he's jumped from a fringe Top 10 player to Top 5 in many cases just over the last few years. I just don't value longevity to the extent he moves up that much over other goat candidates.