Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition]

[Clyde Frazier]

- Peak wade was a fantastic player. His resurgence in 09 was extremely impressive. However, his fans have trouble acknowledging his injury history and that playing a role in his ranking all time. It’s especially true now that he’s been a part time player the last few seasons. It gets tiresome.

Funny how people can see things differently .

I think it's the opposite. Some here act like what he has been since 2013 playoffs for the last 2 years is what he always has been when he has multiple top 5 seasons (06, 09, 10, 11) and 2012 (top 10) before declining rapidly due to injuries.

I think most of his fans do rate him properly (around top 25).

Hmm… maybe i need to better explain. I’m not talking about him rapidly declining, i’m talking about him being injury prone over the course of his career.

In his 12 seasons, wade has only played in 70+ games (or the equivalent in the lockout shortened season) in 5 of them. That’s… troubling. I have no problem acknowledging that he’s an elite / very good player when he’s played (I specifically referred to his peak as that’s what most impresses me). That isn’t as helpful when you have trouble staying on the court, though. That matters.

[PaulieWal]

- Peak wade was a fantastic player. His resurgence in 09 was extremely impressive. However, his fans have trouble acknowledging his injury history and that playing a role in his ranking all time. It’s especially true now that he’s been a part time player the last few seasons. It gets tiresome.

Funny how people can see things differently .

I think it's the opposite. Some here act like what he has been since 2013 playoffs for the last 2 years is what he always has been when he has multiple top 5 seasons (06, 09, 10, 11) and 2012 (top 10) before declining rapidly due to injuries.

I think most of his fans do rate him properly (around top 25).

Hmm… maybe i need to better explain. I’m not talking about him rapidly declining, i’m talking about him being injury prone over the course of his career.

In his 12 seasons, wade has only played in 70+ games (or the equivalent in the lockout shortened season) in 5 of them. That’s… troubling. I have no problem acknowledging that he’s an elite / very good player when he’s played (I specifically referred to his peak as that’s what most impresses me). That isn’t as helpful when you have trouble staying on the court, though. That matters.

Fair enough but isn't he docked for that when the totality of his career is analyzed? I mean he's usually considered a Top 25 player by most. If not for health reasons he could have certainly been top 20 or even higher if he had fewer injuries, and an extended prime like Kobe for example. I'd argue given that he does lose points in all-time rankings because of the exact point you are bringing up because of his relatively short prime due to the various injuries over his career.

[Extra Medium]

KG is not in my top 30.
Nash was a product of a system.
Bird tremendously underrated athletically.

[RightToCensor]

Harden is on the path to surpassing Dwyane Wade on the All-Time list for SGs. I personally think consistent numbers from the 2015 season, 2 championships, and 1 MVP will do it for him.

[Ballerhogger]

Harden is on the path to surpassing Dwyane Wade on the All-Time list for SGs. I personally think consistent numbers from the 2015 season, 2 championships, and 1 MVP will do it for him.

A lot of what ifs and he can't be a TO machine

[Shot Clock]

I generally rank Duncan lower than most around here. Not much but he's jumped from a fringe Top 10 player to Top 5 in many cases just over the last few years. I just don't value longevity to the extent he moves up that much over other goat candidates.

I get your point about Duncan moving to Top 5 for many people but I don't see how he was a "fringe Top 10 player" before that. I have had Duncan comfortably in my Top 10 way before the Spurs' last title and his resurgence after 2012.

I say "fringe" because a few years back people would argue over him at around 9. Then boom he jumps and next thing I see him in Top 3 lists. By fringe I mean he was in that group around the 10 spot.

[Dr Positivity]

The 83 Sixers are a great but possibly overrated team. They are considered an all time great contender because they went 65-17 and then 12-1 in the playoffs. Going into the season they had made the Finals 2 times in 3 years and added the MVP of the whole league to their team so becoming an ultra dominant team was expected. They start the season 50-7 to cement this status before coasting to the end and then blasting the playoffs.

However a couple of numbers go against the Sixers. Their SRS is 7.53 and their offense and defensive ranks are 5th for both. Great but not all time level. They brought back the same team in 84 and dropped to 52 W, 2.53 SRS and a 1st round knockout, although they got less from Moses in 84. 85 was the second best Moses team for them with 58 Ws, 4.17 SRS with rookie Barkley helping make up for older players and they make ECF. In 86 the title core is really starting to diminish with Toney missing the season and Erving sliding but Barkley is a superstar and they are 54 W, 2.46 SRS 2nd round team. If the combination of Moses, Erving, Cheeks, Toney, Jones was an all time great top 5 I'm wondering why they fell off so much?

My issue with the 83 Sixers is they basically are a 5 man team in those guys. 6, 7 and 8 in win shares are Clint Richardson, Franklin Edwards and Clemon Johnson. Marc Iavorini is the starting 4. The Sixers didn't just add Moses to a Finals team because they lost players from 82. Caldwell Jones, Lionel Hollins and Steve Mix all were former all-stars. Yes they weren't playing at an all star level on the Sixers but they are established depth. That's in addition to Darryl Dawkins. Keeping everyone and adding Moses likely would've made them an all time great team. By losing their depth I'm not sure I'm not sure if they made as huge a leap.

As for the playoffs you can't take away from 12-1 but their point differential once again is great but they are +7.1 for the playoffs with 3 of their 12 wins being by double digits, with their biggest win by 17 points. They had 3 wins by 3 points or less. It's possible the difference between an all time great playoff run and that of a more typical NBA champion was fortune in both the regular season and playoff compared to their point differential. As a comparison the 86 Celtics were +9.7 in the last 3 rounds (unlike the Sixers they played a Rd 1) and had 9 of those 12 wins by double digits, including 2 30 point blowouts. The Celtics lost 3 games but they also destroyed teams.

[RightToCensor]

Harden is on the path to surpassing Dwyane Wade on the All-Time list for SGs. I personally think consistent numbers from the 2015 season, 2 championships, and 1 MVP will do it for him.

A lot of what ifs and he can't be a TO machine

Yeah, I know. I don't like to excuse Harden's turnover numbers but the fact that he's a born Shooting Guard playing the part of the team's floor general and leading scorer while being surrounded by inept scorers you could understand him trying to do too much at times. Watch James Harden play and you'll see how loose he plays, I'm always assuming that he's spent from carrying such a large load in such a tough Conference and an even tougher Division.

[Lost92Bricks]

- Sonics would've beat the Rockets in '94 and '95 had they not lost in the 1st round.

- Clippers in '14 could've upset the Spurs had they gotten past OKC.

- Jordan in '88 is the best regular season ever.

- Magic in '90 > Magic in '87.

- The top PG's in the early '90's are better than the top PG's now.

- OKC in 2013 with Harden would've put together a dominant, all time great season and won it all. That trade is even worse than people think.

[RSCD3_]

1. Prime Chauncey Billups is better than prime Isiah Thomas and is completely underrated in most all-time PG threads

2. Nash was a great offensive point guard but his defensive shortcomings are very understated by this board. I've recently been watching some old Suns games and paying close attention to his defense, and I noticed that he is very similar to JJ Redick in his defensive shortcomings. Short, lacking length, not very laterally quick, slower defensive reaction time, and usually tries hard. It's great that he tried hard and drew a charge every now and then, but all those weaknesses really are hard to make up. And I'm not in the camp that believes Nash was on an entirely different planet offensively from the rest of great PGs that his peak would be enough to surpass those of Magic, Curry, and Paul.

3. Kinda playing off the Nash point, if we're gonna give Nash all this credit for being an all-time great offensive player while giving him a pass for his many defensive shortcomings, shouldn't we be doing the same thing for Ben Wallace? All-time great defensive impact, probably the best player on a championship team, but a pretty big net negative on the other end. On the top 100 list, Wallace comes in at 77 while Nash is 25, if we really value both sides of the ball equally, that disparity seems a little
bit much to me.

Id have to disagree on one point Jj Redick by most metrics balances out as a neutral defender because he never makes mistakes on defense while Nash didn't really sandbag he is nowhere as precise as Redick who has some how managed to be a decent defender despite his shortcomings



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[GSP]

This is unpopular relative to Pc board opinions right?

Cp3 was the best player in the league last season

Steph isnt the overall Goat shooter, Dirk is

Bird's peak is top 5

Peak Manu is top 5 alltime for Sgs

Stockton over Nash alltime and Nash has one of the most overrated peaks where ppl dont discredit him enough for his awful defense

[Nbafanatic]

I don't agree with most guys on the board when it comes to the definition of "peak".

Peak is the best year that a player had, but it doesn't have to be necessarily the year that a player had the most PPG in the RS+playoffs (and that's what most guys use)

Take Lebron for example

People usually have his peak @ 2009 when he was 24 y/o because that season he went nuts in the playoffs. But was that really the best version of Lebron that we've seen ? Not to me.
2012/2013 Lebron was a better and more mature version of Lebron, hence the best version of him.

Along those lines, I also think that a player can have more than one peak year, inside his prime. Lebron is also a good example. To me, 2009 and 2013 can be considered his peak years. The same way with Jordan, 1990 or 1991. Simply too close to call.

[70sFan]

I don't agree with most guys on the board when it comes to the definition of "peak".

Peak is the best year that a player had, but it doesn't have to be necessarily the year that a player had the most PPG in the RS+playoffs (and that's what most guys use)

Take Lebron for example

People usually have his peak @ 2009 when he was 24 y/o because that season he went nuts in the playoffs. But was that really the best version of Lebron that we've seen ? Not to me.
2012/2013 Lebron was a better and more mature version of Lebron, hence the best version of him.

Along those lines, I also think that a player can have more than one peak year, inside his prime. Lebron is also a good example. To me, 2009 and 2013 can be considered his peak years. The same way with Jordan, 1990 or 1991. Simply too close to call.

Same with Kareem, he had so many peak-like seasons. Magic for me is close between 1987 and 1990. Kobe doesn't have clearly best season. How about Bill Russell? Half of his career could be a "peak".

[Jim Naismith]

After LeBron declines, the NBA will have no charismatic superstar and the league's popularity will stagnate.

[BmanInBigD]

This is unpopular relative to Pc board opinions right?

Cp3 was the best player in the league last season

Steph isnt the overall Goat shooter, Dirk is

Bird's peak is top 5

Peak Manu is top 5 alltime for Sgs

Stockton over Nash alltime and Nash has one of the most overrated peaks where ppl dont discredit him enough for his awful defense

Can't say I would totally (or on some even marginally) disagree with any of these.

[Dr Positivity]

After LeBron declines, the NBA will have no charismatic superstar and the league's popularity will stagnate.

We sure that next guy isn't Curry?

[ThunderDan9]

Bird's peak/prime is Top5 ever.

Garnett is not better than Malone, Barkley, Nowitzki.

[Jim Naismith]

After LeBron declines, the NBA will have no charismatic superstar and the league's popularity will stagnate.

We sure that next guy isn't Curry?

Curry is probably "the next guy." I don't think he quite has the blend of charisma and talent required for a superstar.

[magicmerl]

Transcendant offensive players who are a liability on D are far less valuable than they appear.

[Winsome Gerbil]

After LeBron declines, the NBA will have no charismatic superstar and the league's popularity will stagnate.

We sure that next guy isn't Curry?

Pretty sure.

He's not that level guy.

The MJesque/Aliesque/Peleesque superhuman charismatic superstar torch passed from Magic/Bird (as a tandem) to MJ to Shaq to LeBron with only a year or two dips here and there. Larger than life figures. Top 10 all time figures with swagger to boot. Unfortunately all the charisma in the next apparent Top 10 possible player is concentrated in an unshaven eyebrow.

Maybe Wiggins can get in there with his big smile, although I'm really not sure I saw that after Season 1.

I'm still hoping for the Kings to come on line so that maybe we can get a good Davis/Cousins big man rivalry. The novelty alone might fill some of the void.

We've got a few more years of the Bron experience before it will need filling though. And his lingering echo will let him fill it for a few years past the point where his game can support it. Could be 3-5 years before a replacement is absolutely needed.