Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[TeamTragic]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AKOgh4owr4[/youtube]

**** awesome. Apparently she only dates guys that do drugs

[NavLDO]

Honestly, 20 and 10 for Tristan Thompson is unrealistic. His career per-36 minute averages are 12.7 points and 10.6 rebounds. Assuming some improvement, he could possibly end up at 15 and 10, but only if he was utilized as a small-ball center. Look at how he scores and where he scores from. Per b-ref, over his career, 87 percent of his shots come within 10 feet of the rim. More importantly, 58.9 percent of his shots are assisted, meaning he has to be set up to score. Last season, a whopping 71.5 percent of his made field goals were assisted! I bet a huge chunk of the remaining points come off of offensive boards/put-backs. TT is a net positive when playing a small-ball center and a net negative when playing PF because of how he scores (assisted or put-backs) and where he scores from (close). He simply won't work next to Chandler or Len.

And wow, I knew TT's scoring was primarily from near the hoop, but wow--had no idea it was as high as 87%--that's Faried territory, as AtheJ415 mentioned. And just out of curiosity, I looked up Chandler's %s, and his is closer to 70%. So I'd have to agree that TT would be best served as a small-ball 5 more so than at the 4, and while I do not agree that we need a stretch 4 necessarily, I do agree we need a PF with more ability outside 10 ft. Even Favors at 75% would be better. A PF like Sullinger would at least have promise, but agree, TT is not what we need.

I hope McD is working a trade for a PF that is young and has some upside. I know many of us would like a PF that is of starter quality, but until his off-court antics are decided, we can't expect to get a player that is near as good as Kieff is on the court, and it's not as if he's an all-star anyway. The best we could expect to get for Kieff alone would be players like these, ranked in order of what I'd expect their value to be...

Nikola Mirotic
Taj Gibson
Donatas Motiejunas
Jared Sullinger
Patrick Patterson

...or some unproven guys from last year's draft, or even this year's. Basically, guys that are difficult to establish 'worth' at this point in their careers. These are the type guys I personally would prefer McD go after, even if it means one more year of a late lottery pick:

Aaron Gordon
Noah Vonleh
Adrian Payne
Bobby Portis
Montezl Harrell
Chris McCullough
Richaun Holmes
Rakeem Christmas

And since we ALL love my amazing trade ideas, AND since there is nothing better to do at this point of the off-season, AND Kieff trades are the hot topic these days, I've decided to throw some together!

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=p3g2vpb

IND IN: Kieff
PHX In: Budinger, Christmas, 2016 Lotto Protected 1st

We lose this trade, plain and simple. We're banking on Christmas developing into a good PF, and hoping the pick is realized next year. Indy does this trade because they don't have a decent veteran PF on the roster--I believe Hill will play more as a C than PF. And with Myles Turner looking to be good, Christmas will not get much playing time.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=o9jgfak

GSW IN: Kieff
PHX In: Jason Thompson, 2019 Lottery Protected 1st

Jason Thompson's scoring is mostly from the inside, similar to Favors, so Kieff extends the range at PF somewhat. And flat out, Kieff is the better player. But since Thompson can't be traded with another player, the only way to 'even out' the trade would be to add a draft pick, but GSW has traded a bunch of picks out, so the pick in return needs to be a few years out, essentially why I added the 2019 1st.

A better trade, though 'bigger' would be:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ooxc6b4

GSW IN: Kieff, Tucker
PHX In: Kevon Looney, Andre Iguodala, Harrison Barnes

Yeah, right, I know, but it works on the Trade Machine!! Ok, so back to reality a bit...easy and most likely, though not desired by most...

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=omhjrgk

CHI IN: Kieff
PHX In: Gibson, Portis

More desirable,maybe??

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ncrsndj

CHI IN: Kieff
PHX In: Mirotic, Portis

And last, but not least...

TOR IN: Kieff
PHX In: P. Patterson, T. Ross

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nqusxoe

Very 'meh', but at least we wouldn't be devoid of talent at PF--we'd have 2 '2nd string'-types at PF in Patterson and Teletovic, and we get another young talent at PF in Ross.

So, do we 'bite' on any of these? Or are they all crap? Or are there any that the other team's GM laughs and hangs up on McD?

[NTB]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/the-phoenix-suns-reportedly-have-no-plans-to-deal-the-disgruntled-markieff-morris-190420847.html

[TeamTragic]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/the-phoenix-suns-reportedly-have-no-plans-to-deal-the-disgruntled-markieff-morris-190420847.html

Conjecture. When the right deal comes up we will unload him in a second

[Safety Pickle]

Tristan Thompson is a superior player to Markieff Morris in many areas except scoring. He is a better rebounder and defender. He provides more hustle and is more athletic than Markieff. In his second and third years in the league, Thompson averaged 12 points and 9 rebounds a game both years as a starter. People keep bringing up his stats this year but he went to the bench and played behind Love. Thompson averaged 10 pts and 13 rebounds per game in the finals. He is a quality player. He has also played 82 games each year the past three years.

Is he worth a max contract right now? Hell no. But like I said earlier, I am not trading for him to give him the max. I am trading for him at his qualifying offer price tag. If he has a great coming season and averages close to or better than 20 and 10, then he will probably be in line for a max contract. And if his averages are that good, the Suns will most likely be pretty good too.

Markieff is only better at shooting than Thompson. Markieff does not play inside or bang down low. Thompson does that. Markieff also seems like he plays in slow motion sometimes with how slow his release is. He is a slow paced player. And I still cannot believe people still want him here after all the things he has said and done. What more does he need to do for some fans to be okay with trading him? Stand outside the arena with an "I hate the Phoenix Suns" sign? C'mon. Just get rid of him already.

There is a less than zero chance he even sniffs 20/10. Look at the players that averaged that in recent years http://tinyurl.com/nuulk2j. Thompson is no where close to any of those guys offensively

[Frank Lee]

and a zero chance he sniffs a suns uni

It should become apparent, there are very few teams who need MoBro, and even fewer who would trade for him. But one thing is clear to me, if he ever returns here to represent this team without a complete legitimate apology, then I lose respect for the front office and their lip serving 'Suns type of player' rhetoric.

Talk the talk AND walk the walk McDuh.

[letsgosuns]

All I want to see is Markieff off the team before the season starts. I really do not care if it is Thompson or anyone else that replaces Markieff, as long as it is not Channing Frye. That would be going backwards and the Suns do not need that.

[bwgood77]

All I want to see is Markieff off the team before the season starts.

You do?

[jcsunsfan]

All I want to see is Markieff off the team before the season starts. I really do not care if it is Thompson or anyone else that replaces Markieff, as long as it is not Channing Frye. That would be going backwards and the Suns do not need that.

Why? The only thing that would worry me in this situation is an attitute like this--the urge to get rid of Keef no matter the cost. Good grief, Keef for Frye? now THAT is going backwards.

I am absolutely delighted that the Suns are letting it be known that they have no interested in meeting his absolutely STUPID trade demand. He has no leverage. He is a good young player on an excellent contract. The Suns are NOT going to fritter that away just because he is having a hissyfit.

I have no worries about team chemistry. Trading Marcus pretty much resolved that.

[bigfoot]

and a zero chance he sniffs a suns uni

It should become apparent, there are very few teams who need MoBro, and even fewer who would trade for him. But one thing is clear to me, if he ever returns here to represent this team without a complete legitimate apology, then I lose respect for the front office and their lip serving 'Suns type of player' rhetoric.

Talk the talk AND walk the walk McDuh.

This right here!! Markieff wants to play in Suns game he needs to put on his big boy britches and apologize to the Suns and their fans for his obvious screw ups over the past year and the debacle he created this summer. Otherwise ship him out for Yuta Tabuse as far as I care.

[Saberestar]

Is there a realistic chance the Suns can repair the Kieff situation? He doesn't seem like a forgiving type.

Coro

The Suns have to hope that being w/teammates & staff who he respects brings out a professional side & soothes the bitterness.

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulcoro/status/638784136736579584

[sunshoopjunky]

Would anyone else entertain this trade?
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=p9w92w4

Bulls: Get Markieff Morris and Archie Goodwin
Suns: Get Bobby Portis and Taj Gibson and Kings 1st round pick top 10 protected 2016, then top 10 protected 2017 else Bulls 2017 1st round pick.

Why the Bulls do it:
Bulls have been shopping Gibson and don't have any takers as he has got two years left on his four-year, $33 million deal but is expected to miss at least three more months after undergoing off season ankle surgery.

Markieff is durable and played 82 games last season. He is an upgrade on offense over Taj and just about the same rebounding. He is younger and locked into a brand new reasonable contract. The Bulls are moving more toward an offensive focus Markeiff helps them with that. Markieff has All Star Potential in the East at PF before he contract is up in 4 years.

Archie Goodwin can play as a combo guard or even swing man. He could both back up or play beside Rose as a scoring guard. He is an offensive minded player that can learn from Rose and he is young and affordable locked in for the next 2 years.

Both these players would help now but also solidify the future.

Why the Suns do it:
Bobby Portis has the ability to shoot the 3, he is a good high post passer, he has a nose for the ball, and the ability to work from the mid range. He can learn under Tyson Chandler as well as Taj Gibson. He is young and under a good contract.

Taj Gibson and Tyson Chandler could help build a great culture for the Suns. Gibson could use the Suns training staff. His contract is affordable and in 2 years could be readdressed.

Another 1st round pick as an asset.

I would also be open to no pick but then would not want to include Goodwin and works as well on the trade checker.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ow9noo9
I just felt like with Portis's Summer league play it may not be something that would work for the Bulls with out Goodwin.

Let me know what you think.

[thamadkant]

The FO are just doing the same thing they did with Gortat.

Plan on keeping him, means, waiting for the right offer.



McD, Horn, Babby CANNOT cuddle Markieff Morris to soften him up, then when a team offers a decent offer they then trade him... that would be worse than getting 75 cents or 80 cents for the dollar. As players around the league would give Suns FO a big red X if they do that.

[Qwigglez]

^Nikola Mirotic would be my only target from the Bulls. Portis is too far away from being a regular rotation player this year. I like Gibson but we know what to expect from him, with Mirotic it adds some intrigue with the possibility of him becoming a legit starter. I think a trade in December could be Mirotic/Gibson for Kieff/Mirza. Depending on how healthy all players are. If Mirza plays well in the beginning of the season it would be hard to trade him but at the same time it would up his trade value.

[jcsunsfan]

and a zero chance he sniffs a suns uni

It should become apparent, there are very few teams who need MoBro, and even fewer who would trade for him. But one thing is clear to me, if he ever returns here to represent this team without a complete legitimate apology, then I lose respect for the front office and their lip serving 'Suns type of player' rhetoric.

Talk the talk AND walk the walk McDuh.

This right here!! Markieff wants to play in Suns game he needs to put on his big boy britches and apologize to the Suns and their fans for his obvious screw ups over the past year and the debacle he created this summer. Otherwise ship him out for Yuta Tabuse as far as I care.

Just showing up and playing, and participating would do nicely.

[NaturalBuns]

Glad to hear suns not going to move markieff for a deal that is lopsided. He's on a long deal and is a good PF who can still grow.

He might be sour now but play it out let him get back around the team eventually you hope he turns his head. If not his value from now to trade deadline I doubt changes its gonna be low regardless.

Good move by McD

[Cutter]

A young player Suns should have on their radar is Dario Saric. Saric was drafted 12th by the Magic, who then traded him to the Sixers. He is supposed to be coming over from Europe next year to play in the NBA. I have never seen him play, but do know that he has been a beast in Europe and would fit the Suns style of play. Sixers have shown they will move high draft players for new assets, especially picks. Suns might be able to somehow move assets, including a high future pick (Miami pick?) to get him.

[plonden]

A young player Suns should have on their radar is Dario Saric. Saric was drafted 12th by the Magic, who then traded him to the Sixers. He is supposed to be coming over from Europe next year to play in the NBA. I have never seen him play, but do know that he has been a beast in Europe and would fit the Suns style of play. Sixers have shown they will move high draft players for new assets, especially picks. Suns might be able to somehow move assets, including a high future pick (Miami pick?) to get him.

I like this idea but I think the Sixers are very, very high on Saric. I think they rank him as untouchable along with Noel and Okafor. Embiid would be in this group too but for the injuries.

[NavLDO]

and a zero chance he sniffs a suns uni

It should become apparent, there are very few teams who need MoBro, and even fewer who would trade for him. But one thing is clear to me, if he ever returns here to represent this team without a complete legitimate apology, then I lose respect for the front office and their lip serving 'Suns type of player' rhetoric.

Talk the talk AND walk the walk McDuh.

This is just a self-fulfilling prophecy right here. You know Kieff isn't going to apologize. So what happens if by the start of the season, McD hasn't received proper value from another GM for Kieff, hence Kieff isn't traded? You are going to lose respect for McD if he forces Kieff to play for his contract? What would you have him do, exactly? Should he sit him, not allow him at team facilities, not let him play, thus lowering Kieff's overall trade value? You'd rather McD 'stick to his guns' at the expense of our team? I'll lose some confidence in McD if he capitulates and trades Kieff for pennies on the dollar. He turned a veritable junk situation last year into 2 nearly unprotected draft picks--albeit far in the future ones, but better than I thought he'd be able to get for a 30 game rental of a non-star player. And now, the Heat are paying $4M more for a 6 year older player of similar capabilities.

No, I really don't care what Kieff does or doesn't do regarding any apologies. I care that he conduct himself in a manner that helps the Suns, be it in uniform, or as a trade piece down the line.

It's clear your hate for McD does not allow you to comment objectively. Every negative aspect about this team is McD's fault in your eyes...it's his fault Dragic whined and cried and didn't wait for IT to be traded, it's his fault our team didn't make the playoffs, it's his fault we haven't signed an All-Star yet, it's his fault Marcus and Kieff are in legal trouble, it's probably even his fault for Tucker getting a DUI, missing the team bus, and Sarver talking out his butt. But he certainly gets no credit for signing Bledsoe, Knight, Chandler, drafting Len, Warren, and Booker, taking a 25-57 team to a 48-34 team in one season (Tied for 11th in the league, mind you, while his mentor finished 25-57), or a host of other good deals he's made.

And before you claim I'm some sort of McD apologist, I do think he made a mistake in signing IT, Tolliver, and Zoran. I think he's at fault for throwing everything at LeBron and allowing other FAs to sign elsewhere last summer, vice going for lesser, more realistic FAs, and I think he made a mistake by not keeping/paying Brandon Wright. So no, I'm not an apologist, but a realist. He deserves some time figure this all out. He's been an NBA GM a whopping 2 years and what 4 or 5 months? How many other more seasoned GMs has McD 'taken to the cleaners'? And how many other GMs ended the season with a worse record last year--I'll tell you--15. Half the league.

So now, your going to lose respect for him if Kieff doesn't apologize with his tail between his legs, knowing darn well he's not going to? C'mon Frank, you lost respect for McD ages ago. You'd be more accurate to say you'd lose even more respect for him, because if you had any respect for him whatsoever, you wouldn't have called him 'McDuh' for the past year.

[lilfishi22]

Kieff won't apologise and I really don't care. I agree with NavLDO. As long as the guy comes in, plays hard and stays professional, that's good enough for me.