How good was prime Arvydas Sabonis?

taufblazers33 · Post #1 » by **taufblazers33** » Tue Sep 1, 2015 11:18 pm

Thats a player who you dont read about much and I have not witnessed his greatness (or lack of) aside from the Lakers Blazers playoff battles in the late 90s.
How good of a player was he and which recent player resembles Aryvads's game? I think he is one of the most unique big men NBA has seen.

Frank Dux · Post #2 » by **Frank Dux** » Tue Sep 1, 2015 11:22 pm

He would be easily the best center in the NBA today

Masterfully · Post #3 » by **Masterfully** » Tue Sep 1, 2015 11:24 pm

Joined the Blazers at age 31, so we never really got to see his prime in the NBA. But in his old age he managed a career WS/48 of .200 in over 11,000 minutes. Pretty awesome.

He's like a handful of other Blazers that we never really got to see their prime (Walton, Roy, Oden, etc.)

Post #4 » by **kulaz3000** » Tue Sep 1, 2015 11:33 pm

One thing is for certain, the NBA was not able to witness his absolute prime and yet he was still pretty damn good at the age of 31 on wards when he finally entered the league.

For his size and the strength that he had, he wasn't a lumbering big man, he was quite agile, though not the fastest big man on the planet. He had probably one of the softest hands in terms of touch, passing, ability to catch difficult passes and what not. You wouldn't call him a pure scorer, but he had great touch around the basket and could hit the occasional three from distance. He was arguably one of the best big man passers, and creative play makers at that position.

I'd say he would have been a better version of Marc Gasol in his prime.

Post #5 » by **Smitty731** » Tue Sep 1, 2015 11:34 pm

Probably the closest player today would be Marc Gasol. But Sabonis was a better all around offensive player and only slightly worse as a defender. When he was with the USSR team, before his injuries, he was probably second best player in the world behind Jordan.

Absolutely incredible player and even in his very diminished state when he finally came to the NBA, he was pretty damn good.

Jonathan Abrams of Grantland wrote a good piece on him here: http://grantland.com/features/arvydas-sabonis-long-strange-trip/

chrismikayla · Post #6 » by **chrismikayla** » Tue Sep 1, 2015 11:35 pm

Easily the best center today if he came in his prime.

lakerhater · Post #7 » by **lakerhater** » Tue Sep 1, 2015 11:38 pm

He'd have been a top 10 all time player if he'd come over younger and in good health. You don't find many 7'3" 265ish lbs players that can run the floor, shoot 3s, dominate from inside the key on offense and defense, rebound and pass all at a high level.

I've never seen another player at 7'3" with his strength and athleticism combo not to mention his super high skill level so I can't compare him to anyone.

wallflower · Post #8 » by **wallflower** » Tue Sep 1, 2015 11:52 pm

He destroyed a consensus #1 pick in the Olympics who also happened to be a first ballot HOFer. So yah, he'd be pretty good.

cold_cowboy · Post #9 » by **cold_cowboy** » Tue Sep 1, 2015 11:53 pm

there are no truly comparable players to sabonis, but marc would be closest. i've heard both the gasol brothers say they've been highly influenced by sabonis' game and i think it's fairly obvious, as he played in spain for a number of years.

Winsome Gerbil · Post #10 » by **Winsome Gerbil** » Wed Sep 2, 2015 12:08 am

We just don't know of course. I'm inclined to believe many of the tales surrounding him, but about half of them involve a big blue ox.

Fact is that by the time he reached the NBA his legs were ruined, and he was STILL a really good center with a great size/skills package combo.

People ignore how enormously talented Cousins is when they they just throw down the easily best center comments with Arvydas, what's he going to do? Average 30-15. But I have no doubts at all he's a Top 10 guy, and strongly suspect we are talking about a Top 5 guy that would be extremely difficult to handle for modern teams trying to play small. Arvydas had the type of skills package, that you give him back his young legs and he's going to have a chance to control the whole game in a way very few other players can. Control the glass, defend the rim at 7'3", post up at 7'3", hit cutters and guys popping free with brilliant passes...

You can't 100% know, but I've long believed he was probably one of the all time great centers, and we just got denied a chance to see it by Cold War politics and injuries.

theforumblue · Post #11 » by **theforumblue** » Wed Sep 2, 2015 12:20 am

i think he would've been better than shaq except for shaq's mvp season.

the sea duck · Post #12 » by **the sea duck** » Wed Sep 2, 2015 12:30 am

Winsome Gerbil wrote:We just don't know of course. I'm inclined to believe many of the tales surrounding him, but about half of them involve a big blue ox.

Fact is that by the time he reached the NBA his legs were ruined, and he was STILL a really good center with a great size/skills package combo.

People ignore how enormously talented Cousins is when they they just throw down the easily best center comments with Arvydas, what's he going to do? Average 30-15. But I have no doubts at all he's a Top 10 guy, and strongly suspect we are talking about a Top 5 guy that would be extremely difficult to handle for modern teams trying to play small. Arvydas had the type of skills package, that you give him back his young legs and he's going to have a chance to control the whole game in a way very few other players can. Control the glass, defend the rim at 7'3", post up at 7'3", hit cutters and guys popping free with brilliant passes...

You can't 100% know, but I've long believed he was probably one of the all time great centers, and we just got denied a chance to see it by Cold War politics and injuries.

I'm a huge Cousins fan, but prime Sabonis is still better than Cousins (at least what we've seen of Cousins. He could still get better). He was like a mix between Marc Gasol and Bill Walton (not as good as prime Walton though, significantly better than Gasol).

Optimus_Steel · Post #13 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Wed Sep 2, 2015 12:39 am

A young healthy Sabonis is a perennial MVP candidate for years. He was a joy to watch play against Shaq in the playoffs. Man what a gifted passer and immensely skilled. It's too bad he was held back by his political environment. He prob got terrible medical treatment too. It's a shame.

Masterfully · Post #14 » by **Masterfully** » Wed Sep 2, 2015 1:34 am

Optimus_Steel wrote:Man what a gifted passer and immensely skilled.

He could dominate even while remaining perfectly still

HotelVitale · Post #15 » by **HotelVitale** » Wed Sep 2, 2015 1:56 am

Dude looked pretty money for a 7'3 21 year-old:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06usV6451ik

EDIT: 0:47-0:52 is hilarious

Curmudgeon · Post #16 » by **Curmudgeon** » Wed Sep 2, 2015 1:58 am

1. Russell
2. Chamberlain
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Sabonis (tie)
5. Olajuwon (tie)

robbie_886 · Post #17 » by **robbie_886** » Wed Sep 2, 2015 2:12 am

I don't quite remember, but I do remember kids around my neighborhood saying Saboner.

Winsome Gerbil · Post #18 » by **Winsome Gerbil** » Wed Sep 2, 2015 2:19 am

the sea duck wrote:
Winsome Gerbil wrote:We just don't know of course. I'm inclined to believe many of the tales surrounding him, but about half of them involve a big blue ox.

Fact is that by the time he reached the NBA his legs were ruined, and he was STILL a really good center with a great size/skills package combo.

People ignore how enormously talented Cousins is when they they just throw down the easily best center comments with Arvydas, what's he going to do? Average 30-15. But I have no doubts at all he's a Top 10 guy, and strongly suspect we are talking about a Top 5 guy that would be extremely difficult to handle for modern teams trying to play small. Arvydas had the type of skills package, that you give him back his young legs and he's going to have a chance to control the whole game in a way very few other players can. Control the glass, defend the rim at 7'3", post up at 7'3", hit cutters and guys popping free with brilliant passes...

You can't 100% know, but I've long believed he was probably one of the all time great centers, and we just got denied a chance to see it by Cold War politics and injuries.

I'm a huge Cousins fan, but prime Sabonis is still better than Cousins (at least what we've seen of Cousins. He could still get better). He was like a mix between Marc Gasol and Bill Walton (not as good as prime Walton though, significantly better than Gasol).

Well, its all just speculation really, since we basically never got to see it at the NBA level. But I feel like you kind of complimented Sabonis and insulted him at the same time. If Sabas was as great as I think he might have been, he was better than any version of Walton, and Gasol might not even be honored with "poor man's version". My well who knows maybe version of Sabas is some sort of 24pt 11reb 5ast 2blk hybrid monster who might even have put up a few seasons above that.

But again, we really don't know. I would say this: even in the delapidated gimpy state in which he finally arrived in the NBA, I might take him over any current NBA center not named Cousins. That's a bit tough though, because he was largely a part time player because of those legs. But talentwise? Sure. And so he's got a really high floor for me even before we start trying to give him back his youth and health.

Youkilledrock · Post #19 » by **Youkilledrock** » Wed Sep 2, 2015 2:40 am

goat

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Post #20 » by **tsherkin** » Wed Sep 2, 2015 4:17 am

He'd be really, really good.

Following the Soviet Union ruining his knees and into his 30s before ever hitting the league, Sabonis was still pretty good. Very efficient scorer, excellent passer, very strong rebounder. Great touch at the line for a big, great short game but he also had excellent touch out to 17, 18 feet. He had a complete game. When he was younger and had more of the atypical quickness he had when he was healthy, he'd have been that much more dangerous. He had wicked height, too, and that really helped.

This is a guy who was already a 15/8/2 guy in 24 mpg when he was unhealthy and old (~ 22/12/3 PER36). 19/11/3 and 18/11/3 PER36 the next two years as well.

Young, faster, more explosive, healthier... I think it is a reasonable bet to expect something like an efficient 20/11/3 from Sabonis. Maybe a little more of the scoring depending on the given team and year, but yeah, he'd be really good.

There's really no one in the league at the 5 who is as good as would be Sabonis today. There are one or two guys who used to be (Dwight) or could eventually be (Cousins) that good, but no one who is really playing at the level at the moment. Marc Gasol is an interesting point, but isn't the rebounder, and he lacks the same kind of mobility.

TL;DR, Sabonis would almost assuredly be the best center in the league and a really good player.