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OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF

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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#961 » by DuckIII » Wed Sep 2, 2015 6:25 pm

Keller61 wrote:
MAQ wrote:I'm not so sure on this one. We all know Derrivk cares about his brand. The moment his sexual life hits public record he can kiss his brand goodbye.


He tends to be defiant about saying what he believes even when it's bad for his PR. And I don't know what his sex life has to do with his brand. :dontknow:


The only way its going to hurt his brand is if the evidence suggests he did it. Fans don't care if their sports heros have kinky sex lives (so long as those sex lives are heterosexual - at least for some fans, that still matters). The Kobe case didn't permanently impact his brand.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#962 » by TimRobbins » Wed Sep 2, 2015 6:25 pm

DuckIII wrote:Tiger Woods settled with several of his mistresses to avoid scheduled press conferences. Read up on Gloria Allred's career. There's actually a market for this.

I do not think it happens "a lot." I do not think it is an epidemic. I do not think its just normal every day business for famous and rich people. But they are targets for it. Denying it seems silly. But you're entitled to whatever you choose to believe or not believe.


As far as I know, Tiger Woods didn't settle rape charges. He paid them off to keep quiet. As for the Shaq quote - we have no idea if it was to avoid rape charges or to get women to have an abortion (we know that's common), etc.

Rape charges are not like other frivolous law suits. You can see a lot of frivolous law suits. You can also see a lot of out of wedlock kids. I don't think sexual assault charges are common, and it seems silly to me to think Rose is the only one not to settle quietly out of a large number of claims.

Every one is entitled to believe anything. I think the evidence is on my side. These accusations are rare.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#963 » by TimRobbins » Wed Sep 2, 2015 6:27 pm

DuckIII wrote:The only way its going to hurt his brand is if the evidence suggests he did it. Fans don't care if their sports heros have kinky sex lives (so long as those sex lives are heterosexual - at least for some fans, that still matters). The Kobe case didn't permanently impact his brand.


Only his game will impact his brand.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#964 » by MAQ » Wed Sep 2, 2015 6:30 pm

DuckIII wrote:
Keller61 wrote:
MAQ wrote:I'm not so sure on this one. We all know Derrivk cares about his brand. The moment his sexual life hits public record he can kiss his brand goodbye.


He tends to be defiant about saying what he believes even when it's bad for his PR. And I don't know what his sex life has to do with his brand. :dontknow:


The only way its going to hurt his brand is if the evidence suggests he did it. Fans don't care if their sports heros have kinky sex lives (so long as those sex lives are heterosexual - at least for some fans, that still matters). The Kobe case didn't permanently impact his brand.

It's true that Kobe's case didn't impact his brand at all. However he was a dominant player before during and after the case. Derrick Rose hasn't been a dominant player in three years so the only way that he has a chance to bounce back from this is if he finds a way to regain that dominant form.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#965 » by MAQ » Wed Sep 2, 2015 6:33 pm

Red-Bulls83 wrote:
MAQ wrote:
Gar Paxdorf wrote:Do we? I've never got that impression from Rose. Maybe Reggie and BJ perhaps, but I haven't ever thought Rose seemed particularly careful about his image.

I came to that assumption simply because he's made statements about caring about business meetings 20 years now and learning to be a better businessman so with those things stated I think it's safe to say he cares about his brand

Saying stuff like that also doesn't do anything to help his brand. Considering all the backlash he got over it.

That's true but if Derrick cares about being in business meetings 20 years from now that means he cares about his name being able to push a product 20 years from now, imo.
GYBE wrote:I don't think my behaviour changes at all when I'm drunk. But when I'm wasted, my girlfriend becomes a real klutz. She starts walking into doors and falling down stairs. Weird.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#966 » by DuckIII » Wed Sep 2, 2015 6:34 pm

TimRobbins wrote:
DuckIII wrote:Tiger Woods settled with several of his mistresses to avoid scheduled press conferences. Read up on Gloria Allred's career. There's actually a market for this.

I do not think it happens "a lot." I do not think it is an epidemic. I do not think its just normal every day business for famous and rich people. But they are targets for it. Denying it seems silly. But you're entitled to whatever you choose to believe or not believe.


As far as I know, Tiger Woods didn't settle rape charges. He paid them off to keep quiet. As for the Shaq quote - we have no idea if it was to avoid rape charges or to get women to have an abortion (we know that's common), etc.

Rape charges are not like other frivolous law suits. You can see a lot of frivolous law suits. You can also see a lot of out of wedlock kids. I don't think sexual assault charges are common, and it seems silly to me to think Rose is the only one not to settle quietly out of a large number of claims.

Every one is entitled to believe anything. I think the evidence is on my side. These accusations are rare.


It could fall into a variety of categories. "You're married, pay me or I'll hold a press conference. I saved your condom and can prove it." "You aren't married, but I can always say it wasn't consensual. Pay me a little money and we'll forget all about it." How much different is it - so long as its never made public - than trying to get trap-pregnant? Do you believe the type of people who will deceptively attempt to get pregnant for financial gain, wouldn't also just threaten to claim nonconsual sex? They are all scams, just of different varieties.

And just to repeat it: I'm not suggesting at all that this is what is happening with Rose. I don't have one single post in this thread defending him and I think the attempts at discrediting her story are premature.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#967 » by DuckIII » Wed Sep 2, 2015 6:36 pm

TimRobbins wrote:
DuckIII wrote:The only way its going to hurt his brand is if the evidence suggests he did it. Fans don't care if their sports heros have kinky sex lives (so long as those sex lives are heterosexual - at least for some fans, that still matters). The Kobe case didn't permanently impact his brand.


Only his game will impact his brand.


Being found liable for drugging and gang raping a woman will impact his brand as well. Even "Teflon Rose" couldn't completely overcome that, and "Teflon Rose" doesn't exist anymore.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#968 » by johnnyvann840 » Wed Sep 2, 2015 6:44 pm

DuckIII wrote:
TimRobbins wrote:
DuckIII wrote:The only way its going to hurt his brand is if the evidence suggests he did it. Fans don't care if their sports heros have kinky sex lives (so long as those sex lives are heterosexual - at least for some fans, that still matters). The Kobe case didn't permanently impact his brand.


Only his game will impact his brand.


Being found liable for drugging and gang raping a woman will impact his brand as well. Even "Teflon Rose" couldn't completely overcome that, and "Teflon Rose" doesn't exist anymore.


If he's found guilty of this, he won't have an NBA game anymore.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#969 » by TimRobbins » Wed Sep 2, 2015 6:47 pm

DuckIII wrote:It could fall into a variety of categories. "You're married, pay me or I'll hold a press conference. I saved your condom and can prove it." "You aren't married, but I can always say it wasn't consensual. Pay me a little money and we'll forget all about it." How much different is it - so long as its never made public - than trying to get trap-pregnant? Do you believe the type of people who will deceptively attempt to get pregnant for financial gain, wouldn't also just threaten to claim nonconsual sex? They are all scams, just of different varieties.


That's where we differ. I think a sexual assault charge is a lot different than getting pregnant/making the sex public. How many out of wedlock kid do current NBA players have? Without checking, I'd guess it's over 100. That's clearly an epidemic. Sexual assault charges are a different animal. The price the accusers pay is much higher and they are far more rare.

DuckIII wrote:And just to repeat it: I'm not suggesting at all that this is what is happening with Rose. I don't have one single post in this thread defending him and I think the attempts at discrediting her story are premature.


I'm not suggesting it's happening (or not) either. I don't think the story is a complete fabrication though. Something happened that night.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#970 » by TimRobbins » Wed Sep 2, 2015 6:50 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:If he's found guilty of this, he won't have an NBA game anymore.


This isn't a criminal trial. He can only be found liable for damages and I doubt it will go to a verdict. If Rose can't get the case dismissed and sees things are going against him, I'm sure he will settle.

This is just another red flag over his head, but it won't hurt his brand wither way IMO.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#971 » by DuckIII » Wed Sep 2, 2015 8:04 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
TimRobbins wrote:
Only his game will impact his brand.


Being found liable for drugging and gang raping a woman will impact his brand as well. Even "Teflon Rose" couldn't completely overcome that, and "Teflon Rose" doesn't exist anymore.


If he's found guilty of this, he won't have an NBA game anymore.


There is no criminal charge here. Liability is only based on a 51% most-likely standard. I don't think a verdict against him would destroy his NBA career. On the other hand, particularly damaging pieces of evidence or testimony could if it was really, really bad and very obviously true. Given the passage of time, however, and the lack of a criminal investigation, this appears to be a he said she said case.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#972 » by DuckIII » Wed Sep 2, 2015 8:06 pm

TimRobbins wrote:Sexual assault charges are a different animal. The price the accusers pay is much higher and they are far more rare.


An accuser who never goes public with the accusation pays no price at all though. That's the whole point of my analogy to other scenarios.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#973 » by truth18 » Wed Sep 2, 2015 8:47 pm

DuckIII wrote:
TimRobbins wrote:
DuckIII wrote:Tiger Woods settled with several of his mistresses to avoid scheduled press conferences. Read up on Gloria Allred's career. There's actually a market for this.

I do not think it happens "a lot." I do not think it is an epidemic. I do not think its just normal every day business for famous and rich people. But they are targets for it. Denying it seems silly. But you're entitled to whatever you choose to believe or not believe.


As far as I know, Tiger Woods didn't settle rape charges. He paid them off to keep quiet. As for the Shaq quote - we have no idea if it was to avoid rape charges or to get women to have an abortion (we know that's common), etc.

Rape charges are not like other frivolous law suits. You can see a lot of frivolous law suits. You can also see a lot of out of wedlock kids. I don't think sexual assault charges are common, and it seems silly to me to think Rose is the only one not to settle quietly out of a large number of claims.

Every one is entitled to believe anything. I think the evidence is on my side. These accusations are rare.


It could fall into a variety of categories. "You're married, pay me or I'll hold a press conference. I saved your condom and can prove it." "You aren't married, but I can always say it wasn't consensual. Pay me a little money and we'll forget all about it." How much different is it - so long as its never made public - than trying to get trap-pregnant? Do you believe the type of people who will deceptively attempt to get pregnant for financial gain, wouldn't also just threaten to claim nonconsual sex? They are all scams, just of different varieties.

And just to repeat it: I'm not suggesting at all that this is what is happening with Rose. I don't have one single post in this thread defending him and I think the attempts at discrediting her story are premature.


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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#974 » by DuckIII » Wed Sep 2, 2015 9:41 pm

truth18 wrote:You're a great poster.


Thanks! In real life I am a miserable failure in virtually every way and just generally unlikeable with poor hygiene. But everybody's gotta shine somewhere!
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#975 » by johnnyvann840 » Wed Sep 2, 2015 9:45 pm

DuckIII wrote:
truth18 wrote:You're a great poster.


Thanks! In real life I am a miserable failure in virtually every way and just generally unlikeable with poor hygiene. But everybody's gotta shine somewhere!


Good thing you have that law degree.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#976 » by GetBuLLish » Wed Sep 2, 2015 11:32 pm

nrockwaychicago wrote:
GetBuLLish wrote:Dude, he was under criminal investigation for 15 months for having sexual relations with a minor. No NBA team wanted to touch him at the time and he was widely considered by the public to be a child predator. It only turned out later that it was all Bs and that his identity was stolen.

But under your awful logic, you can only count on one hand the number of NBA players accused of having sex with a minor, so he must have been guilty.

you're exaggerating.

it was known pretty quickly after the fact that it was a case of stolen identity. i remember the realgm thread about it, the contradictory link was posted on the first or second page. also, that was the year he started playing for miami, so the "no team would touch him" is blatantly untrue.


generally speaking, you're grasping for straws in this argument. you don't want rose to be a rapist (who does?) so you're trivializing rape allegations to protect him.

rose is innocent until proven guilty, and maybe it is all a hoax, but the amount of vitriol toward the victim is pretty disheartening.


For whatever reason, you and Tim Robbins are going to extreme lengths to prove your faulty, illogical points.

On May 10, 2012, it was first reported that Andersen was under investigation for sexual crimes against a minor. The Nuggets amnestied him at the first opportunity on July 12, 2012. After that, Andersen wasn't able to find a job in the NBA for over six months, until he was able to get a 10-day contract with Miami on January 20, 2013.

And no, I'm not "trivializing rape allegations," I'm trivializing this rape allegation since practically every single indication points to the plaintiff's claim being an utter lie.

I don't live by the rule that every single rape allegation must be given an equal amount of seriousness, no matter how outlandish and implausible a rape claim may be.If someone presents me with an implausible story, I will question it with vigor no matter what the topic may be. This idea that rape allegations must be provided an exception to that approach is almost always advocated by people who want to hold themselves out as being more moral and noble than everyone else, when in reality that is absolutely not the case.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#977 » by GetBuLLish » Wed Sep 2, 2015 11:33 pm

TimRobbins wrote:And the data to back up this bold claim comes from where?


You keep asking other people to show data backing up their claims, yet you have failed to provide data for your oft repeated claim that "false accusations are extremely rare.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#978 » by jcuuofd » Wed Sep 2, 2015 11:43 pm

GetBuLLish wrote:
TimRobbins wrote:And the data to back up this bold claim comes from where?


You keep asking other people to show data backing up their claims, yet you have failed to provide data for your oft repeated claim that "false accusations are extremely rare.


It is also worth pointing out that his claim is for criminal cases against all sorts of people and not civil lawsuits against people with deep pockets. The comparison is apples to oranges.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#979 » by Rerisen » Wed Sep 2, 2015 11:49 pm

Odd direction this thread has taken. Does it really matter whether 3% or 10% of rape allegations are false, I'm not sure how it impacts Derrick's case at all. Is he assumed guilty at 3% but maybe gets the benefit of the doubt at some higher number?

The truth - or at least more of it than we have now - will come out in the trial if he doesn't settle, so I don't get the big rush to divine his likelihood of guilt based on such things ahead of time.
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Re: OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF 

Post#980 » by TimRobbins » Thu Sep 3, 2015 3:12 am

DuckIII wrote:
TimRobbins wrote:Sexual assault charges are a different animal. The price the accusers pay is much higher and they are far more rare.


An accuser who never goes public with the accusation pays no price at all though. That's the whole point of my analogy to other scenarios.


The question is how many go that route? I really don't think it's common or we would have seen more cases becoming public (like the Rose case).

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