Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[bwgood77]

We could possibly do a 3 for 3 swap:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qdp42hq

PHX In: T. Jones, T. Ariza, S. Dekker

HOU in: KiefMo, Tucker, Goodwin

If we are taking on an injury-riddled player in Jones for Kieff, then it's possible McD can swing the 'upgrade' for Ariza and Dekker over Tucker and Goodwin.

A straight 2 for 2 of Kieff/Tucker for Jones/Ariza still doesn't work salary-wise, so a 3rd player would need to be involved, and I'd suggest Dekker for Goodwin, though Capela for Goodwin would work also. We might have to throw in a pick, like the Cavs 2016 to 'sweeten the pot', as they say.

Overall, though, I don't see a trade happening with the Rockets; it's just too difficult and too many pieces moving making it necessary to make it work.

That's terrible for Houston. They are all about threes. They would be trading three decent to really good 3 pt shooters for a good midrange shooter, an ok 3 pt shooter and an unproven guy who can't shoot.

[NavLDO]

We could possibly do a 3 for 3 swap:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qdp42hq

PHX In: T. Jones, T. Ariza, S. Dekker

HOU in: KiefMo, Tucker, Goodwin

If we are taking on an injury-riddled player in Jones for Kieff, then it's possible McD can swing the 'upgrade' for Ariza and Dekker over Tucker and Goodwin.

A straight 2 for 2 of Kieff/Tucker for Jones/Ariza still doesn't work salary-wise, so a 3rd player would need to be involved, and I'd suggest Dekker for Goodwin, though Capela for Goodwin would work also. We might have to throw in a pick, like the Cavs 2016 to 'sweeten the pot', as they say.

Overall, though, I don't see a trade happening with the Rockets; it's just too difficult and too many pieces moving making it necessary to make it work.

That's terrible for Houston. They are all about threes. They would be trading three decent to really good 3 pt shooters for a good midrange shooter, and ok 3 pt shooter and an unproven guy who can't shoot.

While I agree to appoint, and why I said I can't see them as a viable trade partner, I do think you are overrating their 3 point shooting. Tucker has a .357 Career Avg to Ariza's .348, and Kieff's is .328 to Jones .312. So in actuality, the Rockets would be 'upgrading' their 3PT shooting, not 'downgrading'. It's Goodwin that's the problem, but the only other viable trade piece would be Booker, and since we don't know how good or bad he'll be, and same with Dekker, maybe that's the better trade option for Houston.

But again, I'll be happy to eat crow if Hou/Phx get a trade done involving Jones/Kieff, but I don't see either party willing to swap 3 pieces. But why stop there--go big or go home!!

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ptu8bkm

[NavLDO]

And please forgive me, but I'm home recovering from surgery and on pain meds, and have nothing else to do but look up 'bad' trade ideas, and I feel it's necessary to share them with you all. So yesterday, I provided about a half a dozen...I'll do the same today! I encourage you to skip my blathering and nonsensical drivel, and just look at the actual trades...do you see anything in there worthy of consideration, or are they all terri-bad options??

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=omzwvsm

CHA In: KiefMo, Bledsoe
PHX In: Kemba Walker, Kaminsky, S. Hawes

We go crazy and get our stretch 4s, while Charlotte gets a PG who isn't really a PG, according to some, and a disgruntled PF--seems fair!

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nq47ate

MIA In: KiefMo, Bledsoe, Tucker
PHX In: Bosh, Deng, Ennis

We get Ennis back--wait, wrong Ennis you say? Doh! Anyway, Mia gets 4 years of Dragic's whining because EB is back with him. We upgrade Tucker with Deng, and Bosh is our 'star' player. Where do we sign, because according to the Trade Machine, we haven't 'affected the winning %' of the Suns, and increased Miami's by +2? They should be all over this like white on rice!!

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=oklx7sd

MIL In: KiefMo, Bledsoe, Goodwin
PHX In: J. Parker, OJ Mayo, G. Vasquez, Johnny O'Bryant

Says we lose 9 wins, so the Bucks are getting a steal, here. Of course, we all know the value is in Parker, but honestly, in the .00001% chance that the Bucks do this, they would be a formidable 'out' next year with a starting lineup of Bledsoe/Middleton/Giannis/Kieff/Henson, and we would really be in 'rebuilding' mode with a potential 10-man rotation of Knight/Mayo/Tucker/Parker/Chandler, followed up with Vasquez/Booker/Warren/O'Bryant/Len.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pdk4ofc

ORL In: KiefMo, Len, Warren
PHX In: Vucevic, A. Gordon, Fournier

Fournier is a throw in to make the money work. This is about getting Vucevic and a young Gordon--basically trading our C and SF of the future for our C and PF of the future, and no, I wouldn't expect ORL to even consider this; and I know many fans here will be like--"What?!?! Are you Crazy?!?!", but in all honesty, we win this trade hands down--Gordon>Warren, Vucevic>Len, but KiefMo>Fournier. But man, after looking at their roster, ORL is gonna be a great team in a couple of years if they stand pat--Oladipo, Hezonja, Gordon, Harris, Vucevic, Payton, Napier, and Marble--all young players with promise, and if they are smart, IMO, they are starting Payton, Oladipo, Hezonja, Gordon, Vucevic, and while not great this year, next year they could be very good, but I digress...

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=odlt5c9

WAS In: KiefMo, Bledsoe, Tucker
PHX In: Wall, Nene Hilario, O. Porter

We take on Hilario's expiring $13M, giving us at least a starter worthy PF, and for our troubles, we swap Bledsoe for Wall. And speaking of which, when trading Wall for Bledsoe straight up, it's +1 for us, -2 for WAS, so how much better is Wall...really...not much, and certainly not $2.35M better, IMO. But in this trade, we also get a developing Porter for Tucker, which is where the true value lies in this for us, IMO. Wall/Knight/Porter/Nene/Chandler; Goodwin/Weems/Warren/Mirza/Len

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qxjlfdj

POR In: KiefMo, Bledsoe
PHX In: Vonleh, Lillard

Last one for today. And 'yeah right', POR isn't trading their now, best player in Lillard for EB, but for us, it's a good deal. POR is in the hurt locker this season. A starting 5 of Lillard/Henderson/Al Farouq/Ed Davis/Mason Plumlee is going nowhere fast IMO. They may want to consider tanking it up this season and rebuild.

So, there are your 'pain med' induced trade ideas for today!

[Stix]

Ariza >>> PJ Tucker.

[Stix]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nq47ate

MIA In: KiefMo, Bledsoe, Tucker
PHX In: Bosh, Deng, Ennis

We get Ennis back--wait, wrong Ennis you say? Doh! Anyway, Mia gets 4 years of Dragic's whining because EB is back with him. We upgrade Tucker with Deng, and Bosh is our 'star' player. Where do we sign, because according to the Trade Machine, we haven't 'affected the winning %' of the Suns, and increased Miami's by +2? They should be all over this like white on rice!!

These must be pretty strong meds you have. Not only is this terrible value for Miami, but you're bringing in Bledsoe to play with Dragic again which was the main reason why he forced his way out of here, he doesn't want to play the 2 and is more efficient as PG anyway.

Also, that increase/decrease win % is a total load of crap and you know it. You can't take raw stats and predict outcomes like this. There are way too many variables involved. That's like saying I am going to win a poker game a certain % based on what kind of cards I get.

[bwgood77]

We could possibly do a 3 for 3 swap:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qdp42hq

PHX In: T. Jones, T. Ariza, S. Dekker

HOU in: KiefMo, Tucker, Goodwin

If we are taking on an injury-riddled player in Jones for Kieff, then it's possible McD can swing the 'upgrade' for Ariza and Dekker over Tucker and Goodwin.

A straight 2 for 2 of Kieff/Tucker for Jones/Ariza still doesn't work salary-wise, so a 3rd player would need to be involved, and I'd suggest Dekker for Goodwin, though Capela for Goodwin would work also. We might have to throw in a pick, like the Cavs 2016 to 'sweeten the pot', as they say.

Overall, though, I don't see a trade happening with the Rockets; it's just too difficult and too many pieces moving making it necessary to make it work.

That's terrible for Houston. They are all about threes. They would be trading three decent to really good 3 pt shooters for a good midrange shooter, and ok 3 pt shooter and an unproven guy who can't shoot.

While I agree to appoint, and why I said I can't see them as a viable trade partner, I do think you are overrating their 3 point shooting. Tucker has a .357 Career Avg to Ariza's .348, and Kieff's is .328 to Jones .312. So in actuality, the Rockets would be 'upgrading' their 3PT shooting, not 'downgrading'. It's Goodwin that's the problem, but the only other viable trade piece would be Booker, and since we don't know how good or bad he'll be, and same with Dekker, maybe that's the better trade option for Houston.

But again, I'll be happy to eat crow if Hou/Phx get a trade done involving Jones/Kieff, but I don't see either party willing to swap 3 pieces. But why stop there--go big or go home!!

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ptu8bkm

I do think Ariza probably shoots a much higher volume than Tucker, and I think he is a more versatile player, but perhaps Tucker could shoot as well as him on volume. I think Jones probably has more upside than Kieff. I don't think they would necessarily be opposed to trading Jones, but I seriously doubt they'd trade Dekker or Ariza right now.

[bwgood77]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nq47ate

MIA In: KiefMo, Bledsoe, Tucker
PHX In: Bosh, Deng, Ennis

We get Ennis back--wait, wrong Ennis you say? Doh! Anyway, Mia gets 4 years of Dragic's whining because EB is back with him. We upgrade Tucker with Deng, and Bosh is our 'star' player. Where do we sign, because according to the Trade Machine, we haven't 'affected the winning %' of the Suns, and increased Miami's by +2? They should be all over this like white on rice!!

These must be pretty strong meds you have. Not only is this terrible value for Miami, but you're bringing in Bledsoe to play with Dragic again which was the main reason why he forced his way out of here, he doesn't want to play the 2 and is more efficient as PG anyway.

Also, that increase/decrease win % is a total load of crap and you know it. You can't take raw stats and predict outcomes like this. There are way too many variables involved. That's like saying I am going to win a poker game a certain % based on what kind of cards I get.

Most all of them are terrible value for the other team.

[Saberestar]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nq47ate

MIA In: KiefMo, Bledsoe, Tucker
PHX In: Bosh, Deng, Ennis

We get Ennis back--wait, wrong Ennis you say? Doh! Anyway, Mia gets 4 years of Dragic's whining because EB is back with him. We upgrade Tucker with Deng, and Bosh is our 'star' player. Where do we sign, because according to the Trade Machine, we haven't 'affected the winning %' of the Suns, and increased Miami's by +2? They should be all over this like white on rice!!

These must be pretty strong meds you have. Not only is this terrible value for Miami, but you're bringing in Bledsoe to play with Dragic again which was the main reason why he forced his way out of here, he doesn't want to play the 2 and is more efficient as PG anyway.

Also, that increase/decrease win % is a total load of crap and you know it. You can't take raw stats and predict outcomes like this. There are way too many variables involved. That's like saying I am going to win a poker game a certain % based on what kind of cards I get.

Most all of them are terrible value for the other team.

This.

Edit:
The only one that I think is really fair and I wouldn't do it is the Orlando's trade. The value is great, we receive great players, but I really like Warren and Len and I want them on our team.

[NavLDO]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nq47ate

MIA In: KiefMo, Bledsoe, Tucker
PHX In: Bosh, Deng, Ennis

We get Ennis back--wait, wrong Ennis you say? Doh! Anyway, Mia gets 4 years of Dragic's whining because EB is back with him. We upgrade Tucker with Deng, and Bosh is our 'star' player. Where do we sign, because according to the Trade Machine, we haven't 'affected the winning %' of the Suns, and increased Miami's by +2? They should be all over this like white on rice!!

These must be pretty strong meds you have. Not only is this terrible value for Miami, but you're bringing in Bledsoe to play with Dragic again which was the main reason why he forced his way out of here, he doesn't want to play the 2 and is more efficient as PG anyway.

Also, that increase/decrease win % is a total load of crap and you know it. You can't take raw stats and predict outcomes like this. There are way too many variables involved. That's like saying I am going to win a poker game a certain % based on what kind of cards I get.

Ha Ha!! Yep, that's why I mentioned that this would have Dragic whining for the next 4 years--win-win for us!

And yes, I guess you didn't read what I wrote about these 'values', or didn't understand that I was very 'tongue-in-cheek' with my 'allusion' to those values!! The Miami trade was really thrown in there for comical purposes, so sorry if you wasted 30 seconds of your life you'll never get back!!

[jcsunsfan]

Please, just stop with the trade proposals. They are just horrible.

[NavLDO]

Ariza >>> PJ Tucker.

True, but I was responding specifically in regards to 3PT %, since that is what was brought into the debate. Overall, Ariza is the better player, but he's also inconsistent from season to season, and again, not as good from 3 as Tucker is, overall...see or yourself...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=tuckepj01&p2=arizatr01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Last year, Ariza was just .005 better. Notice how last year was not a 'contract year' year for him and he digressed quite a bit in a lot of areas? That's always been the knock on Ariza. So I would say he's '>' better than Tucker, not '>>>' better. Is Ariza $2.7M per better? Or I guess it's better communicated as 50% better than Tucker? Because he makes 1.5 times the amount that Tucker makes, so I'd rather have Tucker and Warren over Ariza, because monetarily, that's what it roughly equates to.

[NavLDO]

Please, just stop with the trade proposals. They are just horrible.

Feel free to simply skip over any of my posts. No one is holding a gun to your head to read them, you know.

A trade is going to happen within the next 4-5 months, and while today's trade options were a bit 'over the top', the ones I posted yesterday were very reasonable, I thought--simply a one-for-one or one-for-two type of trades.

[Qwigglez]

Rapper Common posted this picture on FB.

Dear Kevin Mchale, being the supreme athlete and baller that I am, I can't join the @HoustonRockets next year cuz I gotta a couple of other things I'm doing but I enjoyed the recruiting the fellas tried at @livebeaming . I hope you guys have a great season.

[jcsunsfan]

Please, just stop with the trade proposals. They are just horrible.

Feel free to simply skip over any of my posts. No one is holding a gun to your head to read them, you know.

A trade is going to happen within the next 4-5 months, and while today's trade options were a bit 'over the top', the ones I posted yesterday were very reasonable, I thought--simply a one-for-one or one-for-two type of trades.

I will. Certainly you can post them. I was speaking more figuratively than literally.

I just am not interested in trade proposals that use Bledsoe or Len as a means of dumping Kieff. If Bledsoe or Len are traded is because we want to trade them in order to get something we really want. Kieff, if included, would really be an afterthought in such a deal.

[TeamTragic]

Please, just stop with the trade proposals. They are just horrible.

[lilfishi22]

I'd be down for a Jones/Kieff swap

So we're doing an 'alleged' criminal swap?

I think McD is starting to realise you can't cut corners with character assessments re: IT, Morrii. Where there's smoke there's fire... criminal charges and unprofessional athletes go hand in hand.

I wasn't aware Jones had legal issues in the past.

[LukasBMW]

I'd be down for a Jones/Kieff swap

So we're doing an 'alleged' criminal swap?

I think McD is starting to realise you can't cut corners with character assessments re: IT, Morrii. Where there's smoke there's fire... criminal charges and unprofessional athletes go hand in hand.

I wasn't aware Jones had legal issues in the past.

His highlights look good. Seems he has more of a post/interior game then Keef but can also hit the longball. I like it.

What was his legal issue? (or issues?)

Was it just the time he kicked a homeless guy in Portland?

[lilfishi22]

His highlights look good. Seems he has more of a post/interior game then Keef but can also hit the longball. I like it.

What was his legal issue? (or issues?)

Was it just the time he kicked a homeless guy in Portland?

Think so. I just did a quick google search and that's all that came up.

I'm not too familiar with how he's matured in his time with Houston but he's had attitude problems in the past.

From nbadraft.net

Doesn’t look to pass the ball much … Often, Jones will have an extremely strong sequence of possessions on both ends, then disappear for long stretches of a game … Not the most reliable decision-maker … Will try the fancy plays at times instead of using his physical tools to play as strong as he can … Suffers from concentration lapses, and will pout when things don’t go his way … Attitude needs improvement … Does a good job of leaving his ego at the door when it matters most, but has rough stretches and loses confidence a bit too often throughout games, and teams will want to know more about that … Had a sometimes rocky relationship with Coach Calipari, and was called out for his lack of aggression and toughness at times … Can be selfish, and will take shots when he should look to pass or fail to help his teammates on D when they get beat by their man

I'd love for someone with more insight to chime in

[RaisingArizona]

Suns2k5 pointed this out in the Markieff thread: http://www.tmz.com/2015/09/01/common-markieff-morris-trade/

There is also this article that was posted today although I have no idea where this site gets its sources from so who knows: http://en.yibada.com/articles/59109/20150901/nba-trade-rumors-suns-rockets-close-reaching-markieff-morris-terrence.htm

The trade makes sense from the Suns point of view because Jones is a young power forward and fits the core age of the team.

After looking at the picture, that IS Kieff, not Marcus.

I think the opposite. But I suppose it really doesn't matter who they hang with in the offseason.

[RaisingArizona]

Isn't T Jones the one Kerrsed has a hard-on for?