Ben Simmons

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Masterfully
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#281 » by Masterfully » Thu Sep 3, 2015 4:17 pm

peachbucket wrote:
Masterfully wrote:Of course I watched Magic. The guy was a shotmaker from anywhere.

Things were different in the 80's. Bird went 4 straight years shooting under 30% for three. It just wasn't a high priority. That doesn't mean they weren't elite shooters.


Yes, things were much different which is why it is a good idea to not go back there for current player comparisons...also as unreliable as eyewitness testimony is, it gets that much worse after 30 years.

One thing that was different back then was you could get away with shooting a 6th grade push shot from below your chest because your HOF center or forward was getting double teamed on the block and you didn't have anyone within 10 feet of you on the perimeter...a shooting style that has gone extinct with Shawn Marion because you wouldn't be able to get that shot off in todays NBA.

Putting his shooting style and difficulty of his outside shots aside for a second, the fact is that Magic shot .30% from 3 for his career which is not a great mark for any era. Magic did many things at an elite level, but shooting was definitely not one of them.


Early in Magic's career he only shot 3's in end of clock situations. Broken plays and such. During the last 4 years of his career he shot .346 for 3, which was very good for that era. In 89-90 he was 18th in the league in 3pt %. His career FT% was 85%. As waynearchetype said, we don't have advanced metrics to show his shooting % from different ranges, but Magic was elite going off the info we have. Which, as a Blazer fan, includes my eyes watching Magic hit deadly jumpers over and over.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#282 » by Waynearchetype » Thu Sep 3, 2015 5:08 pm

peachbucket wrote:Jordan was an elite scorer but I wouldn't say he was an elite shooter...Reggie Miller was an elite shooter.

:nonono: :nonono: :nonono:
You're acting like the midrange doesn't exist. I get that analysts are trying to go away from it, but it was and is a thing that players can be elite at. You're still shooting even if it is a few feet inside the 3pt arc. And Jordan CERTAINLY was elite at it.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#283 » by peachbucket » Thu Sep 3, 2015 8:14 pm

Masterfully wrote:
peachbucket wrote:
Masterfully wrote:Of course I watched Magic. The guy was a shotmaker from anywhere.

Things were different in the 80's. Bird went 4 straight years shooting under 30% for three. It just wasn't a high priority. That doesn't mean they weren't elite shooters.


Yes, things were much different which is why it is a good idea to not go back there for current player comparisons...also as unreliable as eyewitness testimony is, it gets that much worse after 30 years.

One thing that was different back then was you could get away with shooting a 6th grade push shot from below your chest because your HOF center or forward was getting double teamed on the block and you didn't have anyone within 10 feet of you on the perimeter...a shooting style that has gone extinct with Shawn Marion because you wouldn't be able to get that shot off in todays NBA.

Putting his shooting style and difficulty of his outside shots aside for a second, the fact is that Magic shot .30% from 3 for his career which is not a great mark for any era. Magic did many things at an elite level, but shooting was definitely not one of them.


Early in Magic's career he only shot 3's in end of clock situations. Broken plays and such. During the last 4 years of his career he shot .346 for 3, which was very good for that era. In 89-90 he was 18th in the league in 3pt %. His career FT% was 85%. As waynearchetype said, we don't have advanced metrics to show his shooting % from different ranges, but Magic was elite going off the info we have. Which, as a Blazer fan, includes my eyes watching Magic hit deadly jumpers over and over.


Sorry, but cherry picking a career shooting year where he shot .384 and was 18th in the league does not make him an elite shooter. Jason Kidd shot .351 (Magic was .301) from three for his career and nobody would call him elite in that dept.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#284 » by Masterfully » Thu Sep 3, 2015 8:28 pm

peachbucket wrote:
Masterfully wrote:
peachbucket wrote:
Yes, things were much different which is why it is a good idea to not go back there for current player comparisons...also as unreliable as eyewitness testimony is, it gets that much worse after 30 years.

One thing that was different back then was you could get away with shooting a 6th grade push shot from below your chest because your HOF center or forward was getting double teamed on the block and you didn't have anyone within 10 feet of you on the perimeter...a shooting style that has gone extinct with Shawn Marion because you wouldn't be able to get that shot off in todays NBA.

Putting his shooting style and difficulty of his outside shots aside for a second, the fact is that Magic shot .30% from 3 for his career which is not a great mark for any era. Magic did many things at an elite level, but shooting was definitely not one of them.


Early in Magic's career he only shot 3's in end of clock situations. Broken plays and such. During the last 4 years of his career he shot .346 for 3, which was very good for that era. In 89-90 he was 18th in the league in 3pt %. His career FT% was 85%. As waynearchetype said, we don't have advanced metrics to show his shooting % from different ranges, but Magic was elite going off the info we have. Which, as a Blazer fan, includes my eyes watching Magic hit deadly jumpers over and over.


Sorry, but cherry picking a career shooting year where he shot .384 and was 18th in the league does not make him an elite shooter. Jason Kidd shot .351 (Magic was .301) from three for his career and nobody would call him elite in that dept.

You ignored my entire post. And you have no answer for the fact that shooting threes is not the measure of a great shooter, especially in the 80's when almost nobody shot threes.

I get the feeling that you started watching basketball a few years ago. This is getting nowhere.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#285 » by Marcus » Thu Sep 3, 2015 8:31 pm

Topic is Ben Simmons fellas. Lets get back to it.

Anybody have a stats prediction for the Aussie this year in school?
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#286 » by peachbucket » Thu Sep 3, 2015 8:49 pm

Waynearchetype wrote:
peachbucket wrote:Jordan was an elite scorer but I wouldn't say he was an elite shooter...Reggie Miller was an elite shooter.

:nonono: :nonono: :nonono:
You're acting like the midrange doesn't exist. I get that analysts are trying to go away from it, but it was and is a thing that players can be elite at. You're still shooting even if it is a few feet inside the 3pt arc. And Jordan CERTAINLY was elite at it.


This will be my last post the the subject since this is a Ben Simmons thread.

I'm considering midrange as well but we don't have those stats from back then. But we do have 3pt% and that has to be at least 50% of the equation for any shooter on my book. Plus the two are generally highly correlated. I think the baseline to qualify as an elite shooter even in that era has to be .350 at the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM. Also, you can't cherry pick a guys last or best years...usually players improve their shooting through their career...sometimes very significantly and Jordan certainly became a very good midrange shooter towards the end.

Also, how are you so certain that he was an elite midrange shooter?? Do you have advanced stats on that or is that you've seen his shot's over Ehlo and Russel go in 3000x on replays? Was he a better midrange shooter than Larry Bird? How about Karl Malone? Terrell Brandon? Let me know since you seem to have the stats.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#287 » by Waynearchetype » Thu Sep 3, 2015 10:05 pm

peachbucket wrote:Also, how are you so certain that he was an elite midrange shooter?? Do you have advanced stats on that or is that you've seen his shot's over Ehlo and Russel go in 3000x on replays? Was he a better midrange shooter than Larry Bird? How about Karl Malone? Terrell Brandon? Let me know since you seem to have the stats.


I do not have stats because they do not exist broken out like that back then. It is because I'm old and actually watched the games. I've even got a Magic autographed ball after he played my blazers. I remember cheering for Drexler over Jordan in the Finals.

If you're going by stats then that is really all I needed to know.

(though this did send me on a random internet search for shotcharts, surely a bored fan could have compiled them by watching old footage. But, there was no fan bored enough except for one during the 1987-1988 finals series, and this is all I could get. Needless to say, it is very UN-deandre Jordanesque:

Image)

For comparison, here is a Deandre Jordan special you're trying to compare them to:
Image
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#288 » by splendidham » Thu Sep 3, 2015 11:48 pm

Marcus wrote:Topic is Ben Simmons fellas. Lets get back to it.

Anybody have a stats prediction for the Aussie this year in school?


I'll give it a go.

19.0ppg, 9.0r, 5.5a, 2.5s, 1.5b, 51FG%


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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#289 » by Marcus » Thu Sep 3, 2015 11:52 pm

splendidham wrote:
Marcus wrote:Topic is Ben Simmons fellas. Lets get back to it.

Anybody have a stats prediction for the Aussie this year in school?


I'll give it a go.

19.0ppg, 9.0r, 5.5a, 2.5s, 1.5b, 51FG%


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


thank you sir.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#290 » by splendidham » Thu Sep 3, 2015 11:58 pm

Marcus wrote:
splendidham wrote:
Marcus wrote:Topic is Ben Simmons fellas. Lets get back to it.

Anybody have a stats prediction for the Aussie this year in school?


I'll give it a go.

19.0ppg, 9.0r, 5.5a, 2.5s, 1.5b, 51FG%


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


thank you sir.


The non Ben Simmons topics were getting a bit tiresome so I decided to oblige ;)


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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#291 » by Rastas » Fri Sep 4, 2015 2:33 am

Marcus wrote:Topic is Ben Simmons fellas. Lets get back to it.

Anybody have a stats prediction for the Aussie this year in school?




22.5 pts 8.5 rebs and 7.5 asts

LSU's big ticket is set to dominate NCAA.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#292 » by splendidham » Fri Sep 4, 2015 3:08 am

I think he's capable of scoring that many points but I feel their guards will score a lot, too. I felt Blakeney might lead them in scoring earlier but I'm thinking now that Tim Quarterman will probably share quite a bit of the scoring and play making with Ben.


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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#293 » by Dame Lizard » Fri Sep 4, 2015 7:51 am

Marcus wrote:Topic is Ben Simmons fellas. Lets get back to it.

Anybody have a stats prediction for the Aussie this year in school?


18/8.5/5/1.8/0.9 on 52/33/73 shooting splits.

Forgive my superstition on having to list stats with pretty specific numbers.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#294 » by No-Man » Fri Sep 4, 2015 8:25 am

I'd say

17/8/4/1/1 47/28/70
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#295 » by crazy_me_87 » Fri Sep 4, 2015 5:29 pm

Marcus wrote:Topic is Ben Simmons fellas. Lets get back to it.

Anybody have a stats prediction for the Aussie this year in school?


I'd say 19-21ppg 8-9rpg 5-6apg 2.5spg.. 1.5bpg

wich would be pretty crazy stuff for a freshman
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#296 » by bigboi » Fri Sep 4, 2015 8:49 pm

Marcus wrote:Topic is Ben Simmons fellas. Lets get back to it.

Anybody have a stats prediction for the Aussie this year in school?


15 ppg/6-7 rpg/4-5 apg
tlee324 wrote:
Lebron made it to the finals with that cleveland team.

Bird would have won 4 rings with that team, in this weak ass era of basketball.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#297 » by Dcebucks11 » Sat Sep 5, 2015 5:41 am

16/8/4
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#298 » by crazy_me_87 » Mon Sep 7, 2015 8:47 am

Dame Lizard wrote:
Marcus wrote:Topic is Ben Simmons fellas. Lets get back to it.

Anybody have a stats prediction for the Aussie this year in school?


18/8.5/5/1.8/0.9 on 52/33/73 shooting splits.

Forgive my superstition on having to list stats with pretty specific numbers.


lol i have that too sometimes. :D
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#299 » by Mike X » Mon Sep 7, 2015 11:38 pm

20/9/6, 2stls and 1.5 blocks

Could see him getting over 10boards though, LSU will play with 3 guards alot and Victor isnt in the team till late December from memory.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#300 » by Marcus » Mon Oct 5, 2015 10:49 pm

Kiddo rolled his ankle on the first day of practice.
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after what he did to Moses Moody's name, I got DJ K. Perk in a Verzuz battle against ANYBODY

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