Preseason Games Thread

[benchmobbin02]

That is a very good Arizona defense but our o-line was terrible, guys didn't know who to block.

That has a lot to do with the scheme and aggressiveness of Arzona's front 7. We didn't look as bad vs Min or Stl who both have Avg to Above Avg front 7's.

[benchmobbin02]

It's official: Menelik out for the year with a torn Achilles.

Not many come back from that. Hope the best for Menelik but there's a good chance hes done for good.. bummer, couldn't have happened at a worse time for him.

More and more guys are coming back from this injury recently. and after 8-9 months. Deanglo Hall and Derrick Johnson come to mind as two examples. He is young and seems to be motivated to get right.

[FNQ]

It's official: Menelik out for the year with a torn Achilles.

Not many come back from that. Hope the best for Menelik but there's a good chance hes done for good.. bummer, couldn't have happened at a worse time for him.

More and more guys are coming back from this injury recently. and after 8-9 months. Deanglo Hall and Derrick Johnson come to mind as two examples. He is young and seems to be motivated to get right.

Meh.. I dunno about that.

It definitely robs you of athleticism, no matter who you are. No one comes back 100% from an Achilles' injury, its just too hard. There's the rehab, the re-strengthening, and the hardest part of all is psychological. You become scared to push off your feet anymore. Why I think this is the end for Menelik is simple: he was an athlete playing football, and was doing OK. If he were a seasoned player and this happened, I'd think he could come back and still be somewhat effective. That's why Hall and Johnson, former SPARQ freaks that learned how to play over time, survived. But considering Watson was raw and learning, this puts a serious hole in his development.

And the most damning thing - you cited 2 lighter players. Hall plays at what, 190-200? Johnson is 240 at best? Menelik is 300+ lbs. When dealing with foot injuries, being bigger hurts your chances of recovery and definitely slows down the progress. At this point as a franchise, we're better off assuming Menelik is done and operating as if he won't ever make it back. And if he does, bonus for us. It just seems like a paper thin chance. One case to watch this season will be Victor Cruz, who was as shifty and explosive as they came pre Achilles' injury.

[benchmobbin02]

Your reason why you think he is done is my reason why I think he has a chance. Watson being an athletic freak is huge plus that he can come back and still have NFL level explosion and pop and mobility. All the things you said has happened in the past with this injury but players also DO comeback from Achilles tears and perform well.

I for one am rooting wholeheartedly for him to recover. Of course, we will address the position just as any smart team would after a starter goes down with a major injury.

Isn't Victor Cruz a light player? Didn't Victor Cruz tear his PCL, not his Achilles? Totally different comp. Derrick Johnson is more in line, I'll look at young linemen with this injury to see what I can find.

[FNQ]

Yeah, I dunno why I thought Cruz had a torn achilles. Oh well. The point would have been to note the difference in his quickness. These injuries usually rob people of quickness and agility.

Jason Peters is the only lineman I can remember that came back and was successful. But his technique was awesome before he got hurt, so the comp is only in position and size only. I think the stat was 5% of people regain up to 80% of their prior functionality before rupturing their Achilles.. I'd imagine the success rate goes down with larger men and with professional athletes, too.

[benchmobbin02]

Parekh and colleagues documented 31 cases of Achilles tendon ruptures in the National Football League (NFL) between 1997 and 2002. The average age and time in the league was 29 years (average age of NFL players is 26 years) and 6 years, respectively. About 32% of players (10/31) never played in the NFL again.

- Acute and Chronic Achilles Tendon Ruptures in Athletes - Jonathan Thompson, DPM Bob Baravarian, DPM
http://www.podiatric.theclinics.com/article/S0891-8422%2810%2900098-4/pdf

Only guy that I could find that had an achilles in 2013 was Kory Bierman and he came back full board and had a better year in 2014. So like you said there is definitely a challenge with this injury but guys can come back. I couldn't find recent stuff medical wise but you have to imagine that the numbers have gotten better with advances in how it is treated and rehabbed.

[FNQ]

There's been no significant changes to programs in the past 10 years, its the exact same as I learned in school which was roughly almost 15 years ago. The surgery ingress is different and less risky, but it was rarely botched even back then, even less so now. The base-line rehab program though has remained static.

I dont think it would be hard for Biermann to beat his prior year when he only played in 2 games he actually just got more snaps than before, which is fine, but he was an ineffective player before and after, but most importantly to this topic - he wasn't raw with a game predicated on his athleticism. Players can hang on if forced to use their smarts and awareness more, the same reason why some players can play into their mid or late 30s despite being at a physical disadvantage. But most are noticeably worse, and while I dont have a list of players in front of me, I'd be willing to be that players who were more based on their physical skills than their football IQ were affected quite a bit more.

[benchmobbin02]

Haha Biermann played only 2 games cuz he tore his achilles on September 15, 2013. the year before he had 50taks and 4 sacks in 16 games and the year after he had 77taks and 4.5 sacks in 16games. We dont have any proof of your athletic over IQ theory in rehabbing from this injury. Just sounds about right or that Watson would be counted among that #. If most are worst, give me a list of names that account for the "most" with stats to prove the drop off.

Pointless to argue this with few comps, not knowing how it will affect his development and how he heals. All we know is that he will miss this season. We will see how he comes back next year in a contract yr for him. Reggie will act accordingly in the draft and FA seeing as Penn FA in 16, Watsonin 17 and Howard in 18. We'd bring in at least one T anyways if we were smart.

[Twinkie defense]

Wow, secondary is a disaster. McGill got smoked on Seattle's second play from scrimmage. DJ burned on two plays in two series - the second one fell incomplete, but the guy doesn't have ball skills. The ball is in the air and he doesn't even turn his head.


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[Twinkie defense]

Our backups, by and large trash it appears.


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[Twinkie defense]

I'm surprised they called that a fumble and not incomplete - ball in hand, arm moving forward.

Anyway, thank god it's preseason (4th game at that). Raiders are not inspiring confidence though.


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[Twinkie defense]

Atkinson III coughs up the ball again, he can't be long for the roster.


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[Twinkie defense]

Mitch Bell, yikes. I feel sorry for McGloin out there, he deserves better.


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[Twinkie defense]

Seth Roberts should stick. And if it is Helu vs. Taiwan Jones I keep Taiwan.


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[benchmobbin02]

Ponder vs McGloin = McGloin all day.

Butler and Roberts should edge out Holmes due to injury and Durham due to skill. Roberts made some great grabs.

Think Jones has made the roster therefore he gets to rest unless he'll play the second half. Dyer looks better than both on offense but doesnt offer anything on Special teams.

The McCants is a 3rd stringer playing with the 2's and is showing it. Feli had a hold too and Barnes gave up a few backfield penatrations. Bergstrom look decent. Oline overall gets a C- for the half. Mcglion would have more points on the board if not for them.

McGill blow one and Hayden got luck but was with the guy. Mays looks decent in coverage. Asante filling nicely in the short passing game.

Wylie trying to make the team as return man. has looked good.

Havent seen Alexander or Moore yet

[benchmobbin02]

McGloin is impressive

[benchmobbin02]

Nice adjust from Streater! Let's win this game!

[benchmobbin02]

Morris and Kistler getting run over and by at will on run plays

[benchmobbin02]

Chekwa #35 is making a name for himself as a sure tackler. Ball has missed a few easy arm tackles.

[Twinkie defense]

Yeah I keep McGloin over Ponder.