The Best & Worst of Ernie

[payitforward]

Really I start this thread, because it's early September, and we lack for subjects to think through and talk about. So here's a place to list a bunch of related things and take stock of them. I hope it can be interesting.

I'd like to restrict this to the 'current' period -- since (but not including) the moves in the Spring of 2010 that broke up the previous Wizards team. Mods, please note that this is not meant to duplicate the countdown thread we already have for Ernie.

In fact, since I'm known to be a critic of Ernie, I'll start by listing a couple of great moves by him early in the period I'm proposing we discuss.

1. Trading the rights to Vereemenko to the Bulls for Kirk Hinrich and the #17 pick in the 2010 draft.
2. Trading Kirk Hinrich to Atlanta for Jordan Crawford and the #18 pick in the 2011 draft. (It's true that Crawford didn't turn out to be a valuable NBA player, but it was still a great trade.)

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Gortart trade was a great move in my opinion. Traded Okafor (who I thought played good for us in his line season) who hasn't played a game since and a mid-teens pick. Excellent trade.

[nate33]

1. Trading the rights to Vereemenko to the Bulls for Kirk Hinrich and the #17 pick in the 2010 draft.
2. Trading Kirk Hinrich to Atlanta for Jordan Crawford and the #18 pick in the 2011 draft. (It's true that Crawford didn't turn out to be a valuable NBA player, but it was still a great trade.)

I like to call these two trades, the Hinrich Maneuver.

I think EG has done a pretty nice job recently with low-cost free agent walk-ons. Webster was a great signing in 2012. (Retaining him has proven to be a bad move.) Gooden has been terrific given his cost. Even Garrett Temple has been a worthwhile 5th guard on a vet minimum deal.

I really liked the Humphries signing, particularly with the flexibility his Team Option gives us in 2016.

I gotta agree with CntOutSmrtCrazy's assertion that the Gortat deal is panning out to be a darn good deal. I think it's a pretty good bet that we're better off with Gortat for 6 years than what we would have had with the 14th pick in the draft plus about $10M in cap room to sign a free agent center. These days, $10M a year gets you a guy like Robin Lopez or Kosta Koufos.

[dobrojim]

who can forget Kwame for Caron?

Also, I'm not sure I ever read an authoritative account of the protections on the 2nd round
picks we gave up to move up and draft Oubre. Of course ultimately that move will be judged
on how well KO eventually plays.

[Dat2U]

Really I start this thread, because it's early September, and we lack for subjects to think through and talk about. So here's a place to list a bunch of related things and take stock of them. I hope it can be interesting.

I'd like to restrict this to the 'current' period -- since (but not including) the moves in the Spring of 2010 that broke up the previous Wizards team. Mods, please note that this is not meant to duplicate the countdown thread we already have for Ernie.

In fact, since I'm known to be a critic of Ernie, I'll start by listing a couple of great moves by him early in the period I'm proposing we discuss.

1. Trading the rights to Vereemenko to the Bulls for Kirk Hinrich and the #17 pick in the 2010 draft.
2. Trading Kirk Hinrich to Atlanta for Jordan Crawford and the #18 pick in the 2011 draft. (It's true that Crawford didn't turn out to be a valuable NBA player, but it was still a great trade.)

Funny, I did not like the first trade at the time. I thought Hinrich's salary was a huge opportunity cost wasted to acquire a so-so pick. I stated at time, building a franchise through a bunch mid-level picks isn't a workable plan, especially for our GM.

Even the 2nd trade even though it was an outright steal, didn't excite me all that much. Because again, were dealing with a GM who's strength isn't in drafting mid-or-late 1st round picks. Those deals might of worked really well for another team, for us, these trades are just footnotes in history.

I'll give credit where's it's due and say Marcin Gortat is probably his best acquisition since Caron 10 years ago.

[pineappleheadindc]

I echo Jim, I thought the Caron for Kwame move was good work by Ernie.

[AFM]

MLE for that ball boy, whatever his name was

think I saw him working at the apple store in bethesda last week

[verbal8]

who can forget Kwame for Caron?

Also, I'm not sure I ever read an authoritative account of the protections on the 2nd round
picks we gave up to move up and draft Oubre. Of course ultimately that move will be judged
on how well KO eventually plays.

Can't really beat the Kwame for Caron thievery.

The move up trades Booker and Oubre were clever moves. Retaining Booker or trading him when it was clear not much effort would be put into retaining him, would have made the Booker acquisition even better.

[closg00]

LOL, this is such a sad sad thread, so #Stockholmwizards fan


~When your FO is unanimous on drafting Jan Vesely, you know you gotta clean-house~

[TheSecretWeapon]

Much as I like Gortat, I still don't like the trade to get him because it was necessary to save the season because of mismanagement in the offseason.

Once acquired, I was okay with the decision to reacquire him by signing him to a new deal.

But that the trade to get him was needed -- that was a red flag Grunfeld wasn't doing a good job.


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[doclinkin]

Maxing John Wall early turned out to be the right move.

And I'd say swapping JaVale and N(1on5)ck Young for Nene (*) worked out solidly in our favor.

(*) and the 2nd round pick that we used to land Andre Miller (and lose Maynor). Though to be fair we also shipped Vesely in that Miller deal which is the equivalent of a cat kicking kitty litter over its poop.

[doclinkin]

Oh and signing that Gilbert Arenas guy was a pretty good first move.

[doclinkin]

Swapping Gilbert's contract for what ended up being Trevor Ariza and Emeka Okafor (via Rashard Lewis' huge expiring contract) was on the positive side of neutral in my opinion.

[doclinkin]

Trading nothing (trade exception and a vapor pick -- protected 2nd rounder that did not materialize) for Kris Humphries was alright.

[penbeast0]

Maxing John Wall early turned out to be the right move.

And I'd say swapping JaVale and N(1on5)ck Young for Nene (*) worked out solidly in our favor.

(*) and the 2nd round pick that we used to land Andre Miller (and lose Maynor). Though to be fair we also shipped Vesely in that Miller deal which is the equivalent of a cat kicking kitty litter over its poop.

The real issue was whether Nene was worth sucking up our cap space for several years since we had not signed JaVale to a ridiculous contract and could have let him walk (Nick was easy to move for nothing too if desired, people still liked his potential). Nene has been about what the critics of the deal thought; a good player with injury issues who kept us in the treadmill area.

IF it's about bringing a title to Washington, I didn't like the Nene or the Okariza deals. Once you've done those, the Gortat deal was a good one. And you are correct that maxing Wall early was good NBA management in either scenario.

[payitforward]

Much as I like Gortat, I still don't like the trade to get him because it was necessary to save the season because of mismanagement in the offseason.

Once acquired, I was okay with the decision to reacquire him by signing him to a new deal.

But that the trade to get him was needed -- that was a red flag Grunfeld wasn't doing a good job.

Agreed.

There is a difference between liking a player and liking the trade made to acquire that player. I've always liked Gortat -- wanted him as a Wizard when he was w/ Orlando -- but the trade was horrible.

Phoenix was eager to get rid of Gortat at the time (this was written about all over at the time). But, they got us to hold our socks, because our GM had no Plan B whatever for if/when Okafor (who had a significant injury history and was getting old) went down.

Gortat was an expiring FA who was unrestricted at the end of the season long rental for which we paid about $15m and a mid-round 1 pick in a deep draft. Along with him in the deal we took all the worst salaries/players Phoenix had and proceeded to waive them all.

We could have signed him to the same deal at the exact same point even without the trade. This trade is *not* among the good things EG has done. I think the decision to re-sign Gortat was fine; that *was* a good decision.

As to the Caron Butler trade -- as I said when I started this thread, lets keep it to the present rebuilding era: from the de-construction of the squad in the early Spring of 2010 until now.

[payitforward]

Maxing John Wall early turned out to be the right move.

And I'd say swapping JaVale and N(1on5)ck Young for Nene (*) worked out solidly in our favor.

(*) and the 2nd round pick that we used to land Andre Miller (and lose Maynor). Though to be fair we also shipped Vesely in that Miller deal which is the equivalent of a cat kicking kitty litter over its poop.

What good thing came to us by maxxing Wall early? If we'd maxxed him a year later, we'd have a year more of him in the books -- at a salary well below what that year will cost us when it rolls around?

JaVale plus Nick for Nene -- that's a good EG thing.
Trading for Miller -- this is another case where you have to distinguish between liking a player and liking a trade. Basically, Denver would have taken *anything whatever* for Miller -- you will recall that he had a major conflict w/ the coach and wasn't being put on the floor. We used their situation to bury two mistakes: picking Vesely and signing Maynor. You call this a good move?

[payitforward]

Swapping Gilbert's contract for what ended up being Trevor Ariza and Emeka Okafor (via Rashard Lewis' huge expiring contract) was on the positive side of neutral in my opinion.

Agreed re: trading Gilbert -- I was amazed someone would take on that awful contract. But *that* was the good move. The Okariza trade is a different matter. Opinion can definitely differ on that one!

[payitforward]

Trading nothing (trade exception and a vapor pick -- protected 2nd rounder that did not materialize) for Kris Humphries was alright.

Agree -- Humphries has been good value for nothing.

I'd certainly add EG's acquisition of Gooden for nothing and not even having to pay him much -- almost nothing, really (given the league covers some of veteran minimum salaries).

[DCZards]

We could have signed him to the same deal at the exact same point even without the trade. This trade is *not* among the good things EG has done. I think the decision to re-sign Gortat was fine; that *was* a good decision.

I disagree with this thinking. I believe that the fact that Gortat had a chance to play a full year as a Zard and with Wall and Co. made all the difference in the world in terms of him signing a long-term deal with the Zards. If Gortat had hit the free agent market without having played in DC I think the chances of the Zards signing him last summer was 50/50...at best.