Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[Years90Suns]

Modern basketball PFs should be able to do some of those things on a bball court:

- shoot from deep with >36/37 % accuracy.
- command help from another defender when 1X1.
- be able to pass the ball when defended by two men.
- rebound.
- defend his man 1X1 or be able to defend rightly the 2X2 plays.
- run the flor.
- protect the rim.
- dribble.

Long twos are not desirable.
Not able to pass when doubled is not desirable.
Saving efforts on D to play offense is not desirable.
Losing balls when dribbling without a purpose are not desirable.

Of course, bad chemistry with your mates and the fans are a minus.

Make U think of someone...?

[RaisingArizona]

Yeah, technicals are not the sole reason teams lose games. Bad rotations, not boxing out, lazy defense, bad shot selection and turnovers are a much bigger culprit.

[RunDogGun]

Yeah, technicals are not the sole reason teams lose games. Bad rotations, not boxing out, lazy defense, bad shot selection and turnovers are a much bigger culprit.

That is what I was saying. We lost way more games from the free throw line, either missing them, or just the huge differentials, that can't be merely explained by one or two techs.

I'm not saying they aren't bad for a team, just simply saying it depends on the ref who calls them. Some refs have shorter leashes for certain players, and longer for others. That also goes for teams. Sometimes it comes down to positioning for playoffs, where maybe a ref doesn't want to be the cause for a team missing the playoffs. Either way, we need to find a way to cut back on them, and get better calls all around. Many of our players were taking beatings, and not getting any calls, and then getting touch fouls called on them. I understand the frustration, and I'm only watching the game. Some of our players were standing up for teammates, and received a tech. The league needs to figure out a way that it is consistent around the league. In the finals, GS complained on almost every call, and I really don't remember many techs being handed out.

On/off subject, but relevant since I brought up GS. Will Chandler get called more for moving screens because he is a Sun, or will the refs allow him to play like he normally does, which is move a lot on screens?

[Damkac]

I suppose giving opposite team free throws because of technicals is extremely annoying for whole team. In close game it may destroy team morale. It may seems it's only one point but imo it's really more significant than that. So reducing technical fouls is very important and one of things that will improve next season I hope.

[jcsunsfan]

So, statistically, Keef > Mirza. You can cherry pick stats (like games over a certain amount of minutes) and its interesting, I am not discounting it totally. But it seems clear that Keef is better, especially in scoring, assists, blocks and steals.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=teletmi01&p2=morrima02&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

IIt would be interesting to see a stat that includes points given to the other team via techs, and the morale changer it is. I suppose you could make the case that we are not much worse off with Mirza at the 4. Chemistry and spacing could be improved. We willhave to see.

[bigfoot]

So, statistically, Keef > Mirza. You can cherry pick stats (like games over a certain amount of minutes) and its interesting, I am not discounting it totally. But it seems clear that Keef is better, especially in scoring, assists, blocks and steals.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=teletmi01&p2=morrima02&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

IIt would be interesting to see a stat that includes points given to the other team via techs, and the moral changer it is. I supposte you could make the case that we are not much worse off with Mirza at the 4. Chemistry and spacing could be improved. We willhave to see.

Per 100 possessions their stats are damn near identical. Tele played behind Garnett and Lopez and wasn't even close to the third option for the Nets (Pierce, Garnett, Williams, Lopez, etc) so comparing per 36 really isn't fair. Tele would certainly get more looks on the Suns than he did for the Nets.

[JMac1]

So, statistically, Keef > Mirza. You can cherry pick stats (like games over a certain amount of minutes) and its interesting, I am not discounting it totally. But it seems clear that Keef is better, especially in scoring, assists, blocks and steals.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=teletmi01&p2=morrima02&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

IIt would be interesting to see a stat that includes points given to the other team via techs, and the moral changer it is. I supposte you could make the case that we are not much worse off with Mirza at the 4. Chemistry and spacing could be improved. We willhave to see.

Per 100 possessions their stats are damn near identical. Tele played behind Garnett and Lopez and wasn't even close to the third option for the Nets (Pierce, Garnett, Williams, Lopez, etc) so comparing per 36 really isn't fair. Tele would certainly get more looks on the Suns than he did for the Nets.

Yup. I was going to say the same thing, plus with Telly's shooting he'd be a better fit too.

[pidi]

So, statistically, Keef > Mirza. You can cherry pick stats (like games over a certain amount of minutes) and its interesting, I am not discounting it totally. But it seems clear that Keef is better, especially in scoring, assists, blocks and steals.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=teletmi01&p2=morrima02&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

IIt would be interesting to see a stat that includes points given to the other team via techs, and the morale changer it is. I suppose you could make the case that we are not much worse off with Mirza at the 4. Chemistry and spacing could be improved. We willhave to see.

can u realy compare 2 palyers that are playing the same position, but interprate this position completely different? I believed that the oer 36 minutes stats are highly different in rebounding and scoring. mirza grabs almost the same amount of rebounds like kieff, which meaks me laugh at kieff. and we now have tchandler, who will be the man in the defense and will grab alot of boards. which makes me think if we are in need of a pf like kieff, or should we realy start things off, with a shooting pf? idk, but i am excited for this team if we somehow can get something in return for kieff

[Mr-Al]

Can we consider a trade for Nemanja Bjelica?

He's 27 and doesn't really fit in with Minny all that well core wise, but would do really, really well here as a playmaking stretch 4

[Saberestar]

Can we consider a trade for Nemanja Bjelica?

He's 27 and doesn't really fit in with Minny all that well core wise, but would do really, really well here as a playmaking stretch 4

Minnesota explored to trade his rights before sign him this summer but they finally agreed on a three year deal. He can not be traded until 15 Dec, so it is not possible right now.
We can obtein easily Bennet or Payne...but they are trash in my opinion.

BTW, I really like him.

[TASTIC]

Can we consider a trade for Nemanja Bjelica?

He's 27 and doesn't really fit in with Minny all that well core wise, but would do really, really well here as a playmaking stretch 4

He'd be great here, not to mention team-mates with Bogdanovic on Serbia as well.

MIN has so many PFs...still less than Boston though!

[Bogyo]

Can we consider a trade for Nemanja Bjelica?

He's 27 and doesn't really fit in with Minny all that well core wise, but would do really, really well here as a playmaking stretch 4

Minnesota explored to trade his rights before sign him this summer but they finally agreed on a three year deal. He can not be traded until 15 Dec, so it is not possible right now.
We can obtein easily Bennet or Payne...but they are trash in my opinion.

BTW, I really like him.

I wouldn't mind Bennett+Payne (+protected pick?) for Kieff to be honest. Payne was a rookie, albeit an old one, but he improved every single year in college, and started to put up better numbers in Minny when he got the time, and he could be an OK strech 4 off the bench in a year or so imho. Bennett will expire next year, and still has the "potential" tag. Dunno if Minny does it or not, especially if we insist a pick coming our way - which we should.

[RunDogGun]

Payne is pretty aggressive, I just don't think he would be able to foul as much as he does here. Bennett is interesting though. He worked out last summer with Shabazz with a special trainer, and he lost a lot of weight, while putting on muscle. I watched him play the other day while I was in Canada, in the Canada vs Argentina game.

But I just don't see a trade with Minny working with just Keef going back to them, for they don't need him. Maybe a three way deal involving Boston?

[Mr-Al]

How about Kieff to Charlotte for Kaminsky + whatever?

Maybe like Kieff for Kaminsky + Marvin Williams (expiring)

Charlotte becomes a much, much, much better team and only loses an unproven rookie

The Suns get the guy they wanted to trade up for in the draft

Essentially Kieff for the 9th pick isn't a bad way to go, maybe throw in a late first or a second rounder

(Zeller in his prime will probably never shoot or pass as well as Kaminsky does now)

You'd have to start Mirza, which isn't fantastic, but Kaminsky is pretty NBA ready and will have stretch-4 ability from Day 1

[RaisingArizona]

50 days, boys.

[batsmasher]

Seeing as the Hornets rejected 4 first rounders from Boston for Kamisky I'm gonna go ahead and say no to that one.

[Mr-Al]

Seeing as the Hornets rejected 4 first rounders from Boston for Kamisky I'm gonna go ahead and say no to that one.

Ummm Boston only offered like the 16th pick, and a couple late 1st's that almost never become impact NBA players

Charlotte is in win-now mode and Boston's offer didn't help them in the slightest

With Markieff on their roster, Charlotte probably wins 7-10 more games

Include like the Cav's pick and a second rounder and you've basically destroyed Boston's offer

[batsmasher]

Boston offered their own No. 16 pick, the No. 15 pick from the Atlanta Hawks that was acquired in a "prearranged contingency deal," an unprotected future selection from the Brooklyn Nets and their choice of a future first-rounder from either the Memphis Grizzlies or Minnesota Timberwolves, according to Lowe.

Kieff is worth nothing close to that deal. There were also a couple of seconds in that package.

[Mr-Al]

Boston offered their own No. 16 pick, the No. 15 pick from the Atlanta Hawks that was acquired in a "prearranged contingency deal," an unprotected future selection from the Brooklyn Nets and their choice of a future first-rounder from either the Memphis Grizzlies or Minnesota Timberwolves, according to Lowe.

Kieff is worth nothing close to that deal. There were also a couple of seconds in that package.

**** me, Michael Jordan is stupid

[Stix]

How about Kieff to Charlotte for Kaminsky + whatever?

Maybe like Kieff for Kaminsky + Marvin Williams (expiring)

Charlotte becomes a much, much, much better team and only loses an unproven rookie

The Suns get the guy they wanted to trade up for in the draft

Essentially Kieff for the 9th pick isn't a bad way to go, maybe throw in a late first or a second rounder

(Zeller in his prime will probably never shoot or pass as well as Kaminsky does now)

You'd have to start Mirza, which isn't fantastic, but Kaminsky is pretty NBA ready and will have stretch-4 ability from Day 1

Don't you think it's a little early for Charlotte to give up on Kaminsky? He hasn't even played a pre-season game for them yet.