Official Team USA Soccer Thread

[truth18]

Defense is shambolic.

[EArl]

Not until we start recruiting extensively, will we have great recruiting classes.

[magik9113]

How Taylor Twellman manages to be so hostile when he's commenting with Ian Darke is beyond me

[truth18]

How Taylor Twellman manages to be so hostile when he's commenting with Ian Darke is beyond me

I honestly hate them both. Darke at least knows the game though.

Watched this on mute while working/listening to music

[truth18]

Neymar laying some Mass girls tonight though that's for sure.

[magik9113]

Danny Williams restored us the tiniest sliver of dignity. Now USA need Argentina to spank Mexico to restore another tiny sliver

How Taylor Twellman manages to be so hostile when he's commenting with Ian Darke is beyond me

I honestly hate them both. Darke at least knows the game though.

Watched this on mute while working/listening to music

I like Darke I think he may be the best we've got.

[PANDEMONEUM]

Jurgen is just bad

1st time Orozco and Alvarado playing together at CB
good idea to test that out vs Brazil.............NOT

Bedoya has never played as a Defensive Mid
Jones is not 100%
Altidore was completely worthless

unless theres a better option than Jurgen, we are stuck with him until after the World Cup

expectations have risen,
so when we are not 1st or runner up to the Gold Cup and WC qualifying,
then it IS a FAIL
and thats where we need to be

[and1GS]

LOL loved the Neymar goal where he shot between 5 defenders, such lazy defense.

[Bernman]

Jurgen has done a poor job managing this national team from day one. He just had some fortune with Mexico being so down in qualiying, the Ghana result in the WC in spite of being thoroughly out-played, and pushing Belgium to extra time because Howard was standing on his head. Yet he wants to pretend he's been unlucky because Jamaica eliminated them in the Gold Cup in spite of being out-shot. Nevermind half those shots came off Jamaican goalkeeping mistakes and we've never lost to them b4 the Klinsmann era during which we've succumbed to them twice. Also that we arguably got out-played by every team in the Gold Cup outside Cuba. That's so far below U.S. standard it's ridiculous. And we were supposed to be progressing, but we're regressing instead.

Somehow Jurgen manages to have major struggles at center back even though he has standouts in his domestic league like Matt Besler, Matt Hedges, Matt Miazga, Omar Gonzalez, Chad Marshall, and Andy Farrell. But in Jurgen's simple mind they're not as good because Alvarado and Orozco play in Liga MX, and Brooks in the Bundesliga. Nevermind that Orozco sucked in MLS, Alvarado sucks in Liga MX, and Brooks is shaky in the Bundesliga. His biggest issues are he's small-minded in categorizing almost all MLS players as bush league (blooded all of one player out of there outside January camp, and it was a non prospect in Alan Gordon), he plays a plethora of players out of position, and tactically he's proven to be the idiot that former players like Lahm claimed he was. This guy needed to go yesterday. And I am very thankful of Brazil for the beating they gave us last night because now I think simply a loss at the Rose Bowl next month will send Jurgen packing, regardless of what Sunil claims. Then we can actually start to rebuild during this first easy round of qualifiers.

[and1GS]

I don't agree with the above at all. The talent level for the USA is incredibly low, especially when compared to our neighbors down south in Mexico (who are close to their 'golden age' of internationals). The CBs you mentioned are standouts in the MLS that have either wilted internationally as of late (Omar), are too young to make a difference on that big a stage (Miazga), have not aged gracefully and lost necessary pace for int'l football (Besler) or just ain't that good at a higher level (Marshall/Farrell). Also Brooks is our best defender and has by far the most potential of that group, not sure why you're ragging on him?

The U.S. problems have always been at CB and ST, always. The most solid team I can recall for us was when we had Onyewu playing out of his mind at CB - that's no coincidence. Also not a coincidence that our success at this past WC was intrinsically tied to Dempsey playing out of his mind at ST.

Most MLS players are at a lower tier, I don't think that's debatable. Drogba at his advanced age just scored a hattrick in his debut - and yet this is supposed to be a strong feeder league to our int'l success?

Let's be realistic for a moment. We've uncovered a real stud in Gyasi, have a strong forward at the end of his career in Clint and then have a bunch of mismatched players and skillsets. Yedlin/Fabian are our best hopes over the next two years for serious progress - but where do they even play? IMO they're too raw to play mid like we're trying, but both of them want to play there on the club level. We'd be better served putting them at outside back or even playing a classic Mexcian 5-3-2.

This is a long process, just like scoring a single goal. Unless you have an Aguero your team is going to take a while to progress holistically and get from endline to endline. Youth looks very good (Bradford Jameison, Rubio Rubin, Hyndman, Zelalem all look like definite starters in the next 2-3 years to me) and objectively that's where we've been failing in America.

In a nutshell, I'm not sure what you want him to 'rebuild' - you can't do it without players. Only things I'd criticize are CB choice (just pick a pairing and stick with it), the Yedlin/Johnson winger experiments (especially the former, he sucks there) and playing Tim Chandler ever. We hugely overachieved at the WC and are now taking a fat dump. Doesn't matter so long as we beat Mexico, though.

[Bernman]

That's circular logic. The (mis)perception of the talent in the pool is created by Jurgen's policies.

How do you explain away only blooding 1 player out of MLS outside of January camp, and it even being a non-prospect in Alan Gordon? The previous manager blooded 24 at this point. A whole 24:1 ratio. Not much of a change in policy. A year is a long time to wait to be capped, and a sub appearance doesn't constitute much of an opporutnity, especially for attackers who are then playing among fellow nervous and unproven prospects plus fringe national teamers. Hard to receive service in that situation. But guys like a failing 2. BL fw in Bobby Wood receive chance after chance and throughout the year. There has been a gripe there isn't enough attacking talent in the pool. Hmmmmmm....

There is no compelling reason to believe the U.S. would have regressed talent-wise with more time passing since the boom 20 years ago, attempted improvements at development thru academies, and an improvement of the domestic league. They are spending far more to acquire, keep, and develop players. Your point about Drogba is completely asinine when it's one game, against one of the league's worst defensive teams, and the one he supposedly spurned then had public beef with (no reason for extra inspiration there). Also when the U.S. are allowed to pick a select team from MLS, not of the supposed "lower tier". A guy like Agudelo who is now coming off the bench for New England would be playing for Stoke City in the Premier League if he would have had the caps for a work permit. That's a problem for plenty of players remaining in MLS. They don't have the caps to get work permits in England, or showcases/prestige that comes with internationals to get passed non EU restrictions in the other top leagues. For example Dillion Powers of Colorado got serious interest from a couple Serie A clubs but they said there just wasn't enough info there, unlike if he got to play against Colombia or someone like that. At worst things should have remained the same talent-wise for the U.S.

Before Klinsmann, the U.S. had at least a slight edge on Mexico in terms head to head and senior competition success. In spite of having "incredibly lower" talent than our neighbors to the south.

In all honesty, you're a fool when it comes to this situation. And as they say, "better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt"

Looking forward to you and the other ignorant loudmouths being exposed a year or two after Jurgen is finally gone, just like people like you got exposed on the Julian Green front. LOL at justifying that inclusion over Donovan and then patting yourselves on the back because he had one good touch during his whole time so far with the national team. So stupid. Now he's not part of the national team and back playing reserves. This is tapping the talent pool to you guys.

[and1GS]

Sounds like you're pushing a lot of pre-conceived notions onto me while not really replying to the crux of my post. I'll keep this succinct.

We don't have much talent in the U.S. for football. Just playing Americans in the MLS at the int'l level and naming them off doesn't make them good on an int'l level. I like Agudelo and actually like Bobby Wood too - but just because we have a handful of forwards doesn't mean we're not incredibly shallow talent-wise at the position, I don't think that's really debatable. Your comments on MLS being lower tier are legitimately confusing, can you expound on this? "Also when the U.S. are allowed to pick a select team from MLS, not of the supposed "lower tier"."

IDK how you can sit back and say we're fine talent wise and Klinnsman is just selecting the wrong players when we have holes all over the place. I think Jurgen was doing a fine job as exemplified by our great WC run. We've been fairly poor lately, and a coach should always be judged on recent performances, so I'm not the Jurgen cockrider you're trying to make me out to be - sounds like you're projecting frustrations my way (like with Julian Green - who is ok, but likely a squad player). I think we see how the Mexico result comes out, because if we lose then yes he should be let go. I'm just saying that there's not much for the next guy to work with either.

I'd also like to hear your thoughts on the actual meat of my post, rather than your "**** you, **** Jurgen, GO MLS" banter; namely:

Let's be realistic for a moment. We've uncovered a real stud in Gyasi, have a strong forward at the end of his career in Clint and then have a bunch of mismatched players and skillsets. Yedlin/Fabian are our best hopes over the next two years for serious progress - but where do they even play? IMO they're too raw to play mid like we're trying, but both of them want to play there on the club level. We'd be better served putting them at outside back or even playing a classic Mexcian 5-3-2.

This is a long process, just like scoring a single goal. Unless you have an Aguero your team is going to take a while to progress holistically and get from endline to endline. Youth looks very good (Bradford Jameison, Rubio Rubin, Hyndman, Zelalem all look like definite starters in the next 2-3 years to me) and objectively that's where we've been failing in America.

Do you disagree with the notion that evolving USA's talent pool will take a long while? That we don't have a shortcut like Aguero - or more aptly, Cuahtemoc Blanco in his prime? We definitely need to evolve our play to account for this and that's stagnated for sure, but the general misconception I'm seeing is that the MLS is a good enough league to produce a strong national team. Liga MX is roughly on par with us, albeit with one primarily homegrown star studded team, and most of their first team plays outside of their domestic league - that's not a bad thing.

[truth18]

**** Jurgen.

[BUCKnation]

I liked Jurgen initially, but he really has gone full re**** in the past year with some of his roster decisions. There pretty well noted already, so I won't go into it, but even beyond that, his in game position decisions have been terrible as well. Keep it simple.

[and1GS]

Can't say I didn't see that coming, what do you expect when Jermaine Jones plays right wing for 120 minutes?

Probably the final nail in the coffin for Klinnsman. He got too comfortable with 'his guys' and stopped taking real risks with guys like Zardes and Yedlin when it mattered most.

Altidore is a sieve at this point and the rest of our talent looks meh. Not super optimistic until the U21s break through.

[BUCKnation]

JK won't get fired but he deserves to.

[NotaHypeJob]

Game was lost when he subbed out Zardes for Yedlin instead of taking out Dempsey/Jones who have been dealing with injuries and were dead tired by 60 minutes.

Also the strategy was seemingly to bunker in and counter but Klinsi started an old and slow team. The lineup that Klins started reached their peak about 5 years ago, just was not good. Why is Danny Williams still behind Beckerman? Jermaine Jones today is better on the wings than a guy like Finlay or Lletget, really? Also today showed how absurd it was to have a guy like Alvarado playing over Cameron in the Gold Cup.

The U23's losing to Honduras earlier and then the loss vs Mexico for the USMNT, horrible day for Klinsmann.

[GS Warriors 1]

This one is going to be tough for a bit. 2 minutes away from penalties. May have been undeserved but still...hard pill to swallow losing like that. Subs needed to be made earlier in midfield, guys were gassed. I probably sub out Beckerman and move Jones inside, I think with the energy he showed tonight that he would've been a much better fit at DM. Once Yedlin seemed to calm a bit, he looked better, including the assist he provided Bobby Wood...nice pass and a great finish. Very disappointed in Fabian Johnson, he's usually a consistent performer for us but he wasn't up to it. Dempsey/Altidore didn't surprise me, they've been underwhelming for quite some time.

[DD12]

German coach = Failure

[and1GS]

Game was lost when he subbed out Zardes for Yedlin instead of taking out Dempsey/Jones who have been dealing with injuries and were dead tired by 60 minutes.

Also the strategy was seemingly to bunker in and counter but Klinsi started an old and slow team. The lineup that Klins started reached their peak about 5 years ago, just was not good. Why is Danny Williams still behind Beckerman? Jermaine Jones today is better on the wings than a guy like Finlay or Lletget, really? Also today showed how absurd it was to have a guy like Alvarado playing over Cameron in the Gold Cup.

The U23's losing to Honduras earlier and then the loss vs Mexico for the USMNT, horrible day for Klinsmann.

I believe Cameron opted out of the Gold Cup. Him and Stoke agreed that he'd sit it out to recover from an injury...something like that. It's always been fairly clear to me that he's by far our best defender - he starts on a PL team for starters, and he's got hair that doesn't quit!

Klins has been unfairly praying that 2 guys would step up behind Geoff so he could play as our de facto CDM, but he really should be starting at CB with Brooks or Besler IMO. I've always thought U.S. success starts at the back, especially if we want to counter attack. The best back 4 for that, IMO, would be Fabian-Geoff-Besler-Yedlin, we really should be trying to force that lineup to play together whenever possible - cohesion takes a while.

Sidenote - If it weren't for a slew of horrendous injuries we could be looking at Holden and Gatt holding down starting spots by now