Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition]

[Kabookalu]

LeBron's athleticism is overrated. I'm a person that believes coordination supersedes everything else about athleticism, and while LeBron has good coordination, I don't think it's as elite as some people make it out to be. I've seen him try to do a simple spin move twice and he fell on his ass. I've seen him trying to do a eurostep a couple of times and they always looked clunky and slow. I'm not holding that against him and I'm not ignoring everything else about him that makes him a great athlete, but it bugs me when people say he's arguably the greatest athlete of all time. If it wasn't for his godly basketball IQ and natural gifts his athleticism would have been exposed more; he'd find himself in a lot more difficult situations where he'd need to worm his way around defenses, and I think his overall effectiveness would take a drastic hit.

[GSP]

LeBron's athleticism is overrated. I'm a person that believes coordination supersedes everything else about athleticism, and while LeBron has good coordination, I don't think it's as elite as some people make it out to be. I've seen him try to do a simple spin move twice and he fell on his ass. I've seen him trying to do a eurostep a couple of times and they always looked clunky and slow. I'm not holding that against him and I'm not ignoring everything else about him that makes him a great athlete, but it bugs me when people say he's arguably the greatest athlete of all time. If it wasn't for his godly basketball IQ and natural gifts his athleticism would have been exposed more; he'd find himself in a lot more difficult situations where he'd need to worm his way around defenses, and I think his overall effectiveness would take a drastic hit.

I think the lack of coordination on moves like the spin move just has to do with the fact that Lebron has god awful footwork. Always has, sadly the only part of his game he has never developed. So IMO thats more of a technical issue than athletic

[Dipper 13]

I know you were trying to be humorous with that, but on a serious note, I think it's far more unpopular to rank Wilt outside of the top 10.

I have seen it get to the point where we have posters making up fairytale criticisms based on zero evidence, for instance that he threw games, was a turnover machine, etc. It seems closer to 50/50 among the regular posters, or perhaps they are just the most vocal. Either way this is far from humorous, and a great example of how propaganda works.

Well maybe some might see Shaq or Kareem for Goat interior scorer

I wouldn't see an argument at all. Barkley was a much better finisher at the basket than either of them, obliterating them in efficiency on a similar volume of attempts. Remember he was the all time 2 point FG% leader through 8 years with the Sixers.

viewtopic.php?t=1244886#p41130091

100 Game Sample

At Rim: 660/815 FG (81.0%), 8.2 FGA

I might even go furthur than that, because I feel that Duncan has kind of "entrusted to the next generation of spurs players"

Yes, even Heinsohn has said that the older vets on the Celtics would train their replacements to eventually take their job, and help keep the machine running. Not surprising both the Celtics and Spurs had two of the most impressive runs as title contenders, year in year out. The only objective was winning games, by any means necessary.

[JLei]

Athleticism is overrated. There is superstars who are average athletes and elite athletes who suck. It makes a difference but there are so many parts of talent

Athleticism
Length
Strength
Lateral footwork
Ball handling
Shooting
Passing
Post play
IQ
Motor

That it's one of many attributes. Lebron is an absurd athlete but his size, skill and IQ combined means a lot more IMO. Even Westbrook who is athleticism driven owes a lot of his penetration dominance to his ball handling excellence and size and his maniac motor helps a lot

That is why I'm interested in Wiggins as a test case because outside of athleticism he is otherwise unremarkable

I think if you mean pure run jump then sure. However you will rarely find a superstar player who isn't an outlier/ freaky physically speaking. Steph Curry, Kevin Love, Marc Gasol and that's really it. Dame and Kyrie too but they aren't superstars but fit in the Steph Curry mold.

Pretty much you have to be an outlier shooter at your respective position while being at least above average athleticism.

You can develop everything else much easier than you can improve your physical tools (you can go from bad to average athleticism but that's about it, you can go from a non shooter to a knock down shooter much easier). That's why you take a flier on a Kawhi Leonard. He couldn't shoot worth a damn and didn't know how to post up and was projected as some Shawn Marion energy type finisher and now he's a superstar. He was an outlier physically and you developed his skills. Wiggins is much the same way. And he already knows how to post up and is improving his jump shot.

[Quotatious]

I have seen it get to the point where we have posters making up fairytale criticisms based on zero evidence, for instance that he threw games, was a turnover machine, etc. It seems closer to 50/50 among the regular posters, or perhaps they are just the most vocal. Either way this is far from humorous, and a great example of how propaganda works.

I don't remember seeing any serious/respected poster on this board saying that he "threw games" or was a "turnover machine" - the former is just a stupid narrative, just like for example LeBron supposedly "quitting" on his team during the 2010 BOS/CLE series, and the latter is very hard to believe, especially considering that turnovers weren't tracked before 1977-78 in the NBA. Anyway, Wilt doesn't strike me as the type of player who would turn the ball over a lot.

I wouldn't see an argument at all. Barkley was a much better finisher at the basket than either of them, obliterating them in efficiency on a similar volume of attempts. Remember he was the all time 2 point FG% leader through 8 years with the Sixers.

viewtopic.php?t=1244886#p41130091

100 Game Sample

At Rim: 660/815 FG (81.0%), 8.2 FGA

Well, but you basically made an argument for someone else rather than Wilt, by saying that Barkley was much better than Shaq or Kareem as a finisher. So, Barkley would be the GOAT interior scorer (perhaps with McHale having a case, at least the '87 version when his volume was on par with Barkley).

[E-Balla]

LeBron's athleticism is overrated. I'm a person that believes coordination supersedes everything else about athleticism, and while LeBron has good coordination, I don't think it's as elite as some people make it out to be. I've seen him try to do a simple spin move twice and he fell on his ass. I've seen him trying to do a eurostep a couple of times and they always looked clunky and slow. I'm not holding that against him and I'm not ignoring everything else about him that makes him a great athlete, but it bugs me when people say he's arguably the greatest athlete of all time. If it wasn't for his godly basketball IQ and natural gifts his athleticism would have been exposed more; he'd find himself in a lot more difficult situations where he'd need to worm his way around defenses, and I think his overall effectiveness would take a drastic hit.

I think the lack of coordination on moves like the spin move just has to do with the fact that Lebron has god awful footwork. Always has, sadly the only part of his game he has never developed. So IMO thats more of a technical issue than athletic

I wouldn't say so. Lebron has been practicing these moves for decades. If he can't get them down right it's a coordination issue IMO.

I'm going to add another one here... Anthony Davis isn't a top 5 player yet and Alvin Gentry was a terrible idea for coach since he isn't developing Davis' creation abilities and I'm impatient.

[Quotatious]

I'm going to add another one here... Anthony Davis isn't a top 5 player yet and Alvin Gentry was a terrible idea for coach since he isn't developing Davis' creation abilities and I'm impatient.

I had Davis at #5 in my player of the year ballot, but for me it was very tight between AD and Westbrook for #5.

I'm not particularly excited about Gentry coaching him. I'd much rather see someone like Thibodeau or Jeff Van Gundy, who would help him become a truly great defender, instead of focusing on his offense, which is already excellent, and better than his defense.

[Dipper 13]

Well, but you basically made an argument for someone else rather Wilt, by saying that Barkley was much better than Shaq or Kareem as a finisher. So, Barkley would be the GOAT interior scorer (perhaps with McHale having a case, at least the '87 version when his volume was on par with Barkley).

Yes, my original 'unpopular opinion' was that Barkley was the GOAT interior scorer. Still looking for the NBA to release some of those pre-1997 shot charts.

[bondom34]

Yeah, I question Gentry too, but think AD will be 3 or 4 (depending on Curry) going forward. Had him at 6 last year myself. I think Lebron, KD are 1/2, Curry was 3 but that's about AD's high mark, then the group of Paul/Westbrook/Harden. Last year AD was at 6 though.

[E-Balla]

I'm going to add another one here... Anthony Davis isn't a top 5 player yet and Alvin Gentry was a terrible idea for coach since he isn't developing Davis' creation abilities and I'm impatient.

I had Davis at #5 in my player of the year ballot, but for me it was very tight between AD and Westbrook for #5.

I'm not particularly excited about Gentry coaching him. I'd much rather see someone like Thibodeau or Jeff Van Gundy, who would help him become a truly great defender, instead of focusing on his offense, which is already excellent, and better than his defense.

They have a great defensive coach working with him. Thibs 2.0. Erman has gone from Boston to creating the Warrior's schemes to back to Boston as a coach last year where he was amazing.

[Quotatious]

They have a great defensive coach working with him. Thibs 2.0. Erman has gone from Boston to creating the Warrior's schemes to back to Boston as a coach last year where he was amazing.

Hopefully he'll help Davis reach his amazing potential on defense. AD may really have a slightly higher potential than Duncan and KG, as a two-way player, seeing how amazing he is at age 22.

[Hawk]

They have a great defensive coach working with him. Thibs 2.0. Erman has gone from Boston to creating the Warrior's schemes to back to Boston as a coach last year where he was amazing.

Hopefully he'll help Davis reach his amazing potential on defense. AD may really have a slightly higher potential than Duncan and KG, as a two-way player, seeing how amazing he is at age 22.

That is SCARY to think about, but we will be here to witness it, which is great

[crazy_me_87]

I have one that i get alot of flac for because it seems almost blasphemous^^

I honestly think while i dont question him as a GOAT that MJ is overrated or in a better word overmystified.
I get that what he did was amazing and his current place at No1 ALl Time is deserved.

(Now hear me out before rushing to get torch and pitchfork^^)

BUT i do think he has been gloryfied,mystified and hyped up way too much. People like to make it seem as if MJ is unreachable forever.
Wich honestly if thats the case lets shut down the NBA.. if you cant EVER reach No1 in your sport.. you might as well quit.

Also people have totally overgloryfied the 90s in the process of overhyping MJ. Yes the Top talent after MJ was very good(especially the Center Position) but the overall talent in the NBA beyond the Megsastars was really weak due to expansion. and while everybody says "well MJ beat all those great Centers" .. yes he did but thats kinda besides the Point. wich great superstar SG or SF did he beat? Clyde.. and?.. he had no real competition at his own position. And to be honest there not nearly as many great perimeter defenders in the NBA back then as they are today. nowadays every Team has 1-4 people who at least have the physical ability to match MJ in size and strenght. back then having even 1 was a huge luxury.

Also his Teams have been diminished to make MJ stand out more. The 91-93 Bulls had 5 Players who where all Stars either before or during their time with the Bulls.(MJ,Pippen,Grant,Armstrong,Cartwright) and propably the greatest Coach ever.
The 96-98 Bulls had a 3rd Hof in Rodman.. and beyond MJ,Pippen,Rodman.. at least 2 more players who performed at All Star level in Harper and Kukoc and again Phil Jackson as coach.

The story of MJ dragging those lousy Bulls Teams to 6 Rings with no Help beyond Pippen(if he is even mentioned!) is so heavily wrong. Those Bulls Teams where pretty stacked, especially for their time. Teams with 3 HOFmers werent really common in the 90s on other Teams.

So go ahead MJ fans.. lynch me. say i need to get a lifetime ban from realgm.. i dont care

All i had to say was is that while MJ was a great,great player and deseves his actual Throne as GOAT... he is no Basketball God and eventually there will be another GOAT.

[Joao Saraiva]

LeBron's athleticism is overrated. I'm a person that believes coordination supersedes everything else about athleticism, and while LeBron has good coordination, I don't think it's as elite as some people make it out to be. I've seen him try to do a simple spin move twice and he fell on his ass. I've seen him trying to do a eurostep a couple of times and they always looked clunky and slow. I'm not holding that against him and I'm not ignoring everything else about him that makes him a great athlete, but it bugs me when people say he's arguably the greatest athlete of all time. If it wasn't for his godly basketball IQ and natural gifts his athleticism would have been exposed more; he'd find himself in a lot more difficult situations where he'd need to worm his way around defenses, and I think his overall effectiveness would take a drastic hit.

Wow. Just wow.

I mean, what haven't we seen LeBron doing? The guy in his peak/prime was a monster running up and down the court, dunked on a bunch of people with a ton of power, jumped like crazy on alley oops and other dunks, had spectacular blocks all over the place... And you're saying he's not a great athlete? He was also by far the best player in the league (perhaps in NBA history!) in fast break situations.

Of course his basketball IQ is very important and his technique is also impressive, otherwise he's be a Josh Smith type of player (even if with better athleticism).

[Kabookalu]

LeBron's athleticism is overrated. I'm a person that believes coordination supersedes everything else about athleticism, and while LeBron has good coordination, I don't think it's as elite as some people make it out to be. I've seen him try to do a simple spin move twice and he fell on his ass. I've seen him trying to do a eurostep a couple of times and they always looked clunky and slow. I'm not holding that against him and I'm not ignoring everything else about him that makes him a great athlete, but it bugs me when people say he's arguably the greatest athlete of all time. If it wasn't for his godly basketball IQ and natural gifts his athleticism would have been exposed more; he'd find himself in a lot more difficult situations where he'd need to worm his way around defenses, and I think his overall effectiveness would take a drastic hit.

Wow. Just wow.

I mean, what haven't we seen LeBron doing? The guy in his peak/prime was a monster running up and down the court, dunked on a bunch of people with a ton of power, jumped like crazy on alley oops and other dunks, had spectacular blocks all over the place... And you're saying he's not a great athlete? He was also by far the best player in the league (perhaps in NBA history!) in fast break situations.

Of course his basketball IQ is very important and his technique is also impressive, otherwise he's be a Josh Smith type of player (even if with better athleticism).

Wow. Just wow

Where did I say he wasn't a great athlete? I even specifically said this:

I'm not ignoring everything else about him that makes him a great athlete

He's a great athlete, I just don't think he's the greatest athlete of all time like so many people this generation proclaim.

[Joao Saraiva]

LeBron's athleticism is overrated. I'm a person that believes coordination supersedes everything else about athleticism, and while LeBron has good coordination, I don't think it's as elite as some people make it out to be. I've seen him try to do a simple spin move twice and he fell on his ass. I've seen him trying to do a eurostep a couple of times and they always looked clunky and slow. I'm not holding that against him and I'm not ignoring everything else about him that makes him a great athlete, but it bugs me when people say he's arguably the greatest athlete of all time. If it wasn't for his godly basketball IQ and natural gifts his athleticism would have been exposed more; he'd find himself in a lot more difficult situations where he'd need to worm his way around defenses, and I think his overall effectiveness would take a drastic hit.

Wow. Just wow.

I mean, what haven't we seen LeBron doing? The guy in his peak/prime was a monster running up and down the court, dunked on a bunch of people with a ton of power, jumped like crazy on alley oops and other dunks, had spectacular blocks all over the place... And you're saying he's not a great athlete? He was also by far the best player in the league (perhaps in NBA history!) in fast break situations.

Of course his basketball IQ is very important and his technique is also impressive, otherwise he's be a Josh Smith type of player (even if with better athleticism).

Wow. Just wow

Where did I say he wasn't a great athlete? I even specifically said this:

I'm not ignoring everything else about him that makes him a great athlete

He's a great athlete, I just don't think he's the greatest athlete of all time like so many people this generation proclaim.

If he's the greatest I don't know, I haven't seen them all. But I've seen enough NBA from the last 25 years (obviously not all live I started watching in 97) and I'd say he's right at the top.

Doing a spin move has nothing to do with athleticism.

[Kabookalu]

Wow. Just wow.

I mean, what haven't we seen LeBron doing? The guy in his peak/prime was a monster running up and down the court, dunked on a bunch of people with a ton of power, jumped like crazy on alley oops and other dunks, had spectacular blocks all over the place... And you're saying he's not a great athlete? He was also by far the best player in the league (perhaps in NBA history!) in fast break situations.

Of course his basketball IQ is very important and his technique is also impressive, otherwise he's be a Josh Smith type of player (even if with better athleticism).

Wow. Just wow

Where did I say he wasn't a great athlete? I even specifically said this:

I'm not ignoring everything else about him that makes him a great athlete

He's a great athlete, I just don't think he's the greatest athlete of all time like so many people this generation proclaim.

If he's the greatest I don't know, I haven't seen them all. But I've seen enough NBA from the last 25 years (obviously not all live I started watching in 97) and I'd say he's right at the top.

Doing a spin move has nothing to do with athleticism.

Are you kidding me? It has EVERYTHING to do with athleticism.

[Joao Saraiva]

Wow. Just wow

Where did I say he wasn't a great athlete? I even specifically said this:

I'm not ignoring everything else about him that makes him a great athlete

He's a great athlete, I just don't think he's the greatest athlete of all time like so many people this generation proclaim.

If he's the greatest I don't know, I haven't seen them all. But I've seen enough NBA from the last 25 years (obviously not all live I started watching in 97) and I'd say he's right at the top.

Doing a spin move has nothing to do with athleticism.

Are you kidding me? It has EVERYTHING to do with athleticism.

A guy can be very fast, jump really high, strong as a Bull and be the best athlete of all time.

If he never played basketball he won't be able to do a quick eurostep move.

That's because it is a technichal skill players develop. It's a specific kind of move.

If you give Bolt a basket ball he probably can't run the court faster dribbling it than Westbrook or LeBron. That doesn't mean he isn't faster.

[HornetJail]

My unpopular opinions:

- Anthony Davis is kinda overrated. He's an unbelievable talent, but what he showed last year was not MVP-caliber. He's not a better talent than Kevin Durant either. Blake Griffin is currently the best power forward in the game by a fairly sizable margin. Davis is a top 6-8 player, but I would not go higher than that.

- Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook are pretty much 1a and 1b in terms of the best PGs in the league, with CP3 right behind them.

- If Durant stays healthy, he will finish his career as the top scorer of all time. His game will age so well that he'd play past 40 assuming his body doesn't completely fail him.

- Kawhi Leonard would not be a top 20 player on any other team as he currently stands. His strengths really get amplified by the Spurs' system and I really don't think he'd thrive as the top scorer on a good playoff team being force-fed 15-20 shot attempts per game. Of course all 30 teams would love to have him as a supporting piece to another star, but I don't see him as a #1 option.

- LeBron would be at his absolute best if he simply had a collection of shooters, rebounders, and defenders around him instead of other stars. Then he really takes it upon himself to make things happen, and good things always happen when LeBron takes matters into his own hands. If I'm building a team around LeBron, I'm fulling it with catch-and-shoot players and elite defenders/rebounders that play better without the ball so that LeBron defers to nobody.

Go on, trash my opinions. My ass is ready

[thizznation]

LeBron's athleticism is overrated. I'm a person that believes coordination supersedes everything else about athleticism, and while LeBron has good coordination, I don't think it's as elite as some people make it out to be. I've seen him try to do a simple spin move twice and he fell on his ass. I've seen him trying to do a eurostep a couple of times and they always looked clunky and slow. I'm not holding that against him and I'm not ignoring everything else about him that makes him a great athlete, but it bugs me when people say he's arguably the greatest athlete of all time. If it wasn't for his godly basketball IQ and natural gifts his athleticism would have been exposed more; he'd find himself in a lot more difficult situations where he'd need to worm his way around defenses, and I think his overall effectiveness would take a drastic hit.

LeBron is pretty coordinated. He has really good handles and I've seen him do some crazy moves on the fast break while ball handling.

In my opinion LeBron, especially younger LeBron was one of the greatest athletes in NBA history. He was on another level with his combination of speed, size, and motor.