State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15)

[slothrop8]

So what happened? Mexico beat Argentina by 36 so we are the first seed?

No, they beat them by 12, which means that we are the first seed, and will be playing Venezuela for a spot in the finals, and berth in the Rio Olympic games.

Someone wrote they had to beat them by 36 in order for us to get the 1st seed, unless I read that wrong. Oh well, let's get it Canada.

Arg beat us, we slaughters Mexico, Mexico beat Argentina? What's up with that

That was me - but the scenario was if Mexico won by 36 they would have been the #1 seed and we'd have ended up facing Argentina in the semi in the 2/3 match up. I'm very confident we'd have beat Argentina easily had we played them again. Mexico prevailed playing Ayon 39 minutes against them. We played all 12 men against Argentina and had Sacre taking shots down the stretch. In an elimination game we'd run 8-9 guys - play our best heavy minutes - and take Argentina to the woodshed - in my opinion of course.

[thunderforce]

Some Olympic spots will be based on performance at the World Cup, and the remaining spots will be awarded based on last-chance tournaments just prior to the Olympics.

I have not seen a breakdown of how many spots will be awarded through each route, how many last chance tournaments there will be, whether they will be regional, etc.

I don't think it matters any more how they qualify , Canada has arrived and we are too good to not be in any Olympics and we are just going to keep getting better and better . When the Olympics rolls around and we do really well I could see basketball becoming a major sport in Canada .

The point is that it is going to be harder for Canada to qualify in the future because NBA players will not be available for most of the qualifying windows. We will need guys like Cadougan, Rautins, Shepherd, etc. to qualify for the Worlds because Joseph, Murray, Stauskas, Wiggins, etc. will be unable to participate in the qualifying games.

And if we are not in the Worlds, it will be hard to make the Olympics because, going forward, many of the Olympic spots will be awarded based on performance at the Worlds.

I am not sure that they would make it so all the great countries at basketball can't send their best players so they don't qualify for the olympics . Not sure that would go over very good if some of the top countries weren't in the Olympics , I would think the Olympics want to be showing the best basketball they can and by not having the best countries there it would hurt the Olympic brand . I could see it not mattering if we were a border line country of getting in but we will be a top 10 country so I can't see us not getting in .

[slothrop8]

Count me in the minority ... but I think AD hasn't been that bad. I have no issue with him being on this team; Very unselfish, one of the better passers on the team, extremely active, knows and plays his role.

Scrubb has been impressive. He can flat out play. I keep seeing comments about scrubb having to guard barea if cojo went down and how much of a disaster it would be... why? I'm quite content giving it a go and if it isn't happening play a 2 or 3 on him. He'll I'd toss Wiggins at him in spurts. If jj barea is the reason we lose with or without cojo... we shouldn't be going to the Olympics anyways.

It''s all about minimizing risk. We have, imo, by far the best team. But on any given day the best team can lose. The easiest way for a more talented team to lose is to have a guard go bezerk against you. Scrubb got torched by Laprovittola in the Argentina game - and Barea is a much better scorer internationally than Laprovittola is. If you switch Wiggins to Barea - then you've got to hide Scrubb on a 2 or 3 - also not great. We still likely win that game 8 times out 10 - so it's not a huge deal - but we likely win 9.5 times out of 10 or more with Joseph playing. We're most likely fine either way - but we've exposed ourselves to unnecessary risk if we end up with Scrubb starting at PG with no backup trying to guard a scorer.

There's an empty spot marked 2011 in LeBron's trophy case from the Heat saying "if JJ Barea hits big shots to beat us we shouldn't be winning the Finals anyways" lol

[frumble]

Cumulative plus/minus through round robin:

Stauskas +161
Wiggins +136
Joseph +128
Bennett +125
Olynyk +108

Nicholson +53
Scrubb +49
Sacre +46
Doornekamp +36
Heslip +24

Ejim +21
Powell -2


No surprise to see the starters at the top, but I am little surprised re how large the differences are.

Even among the bigs, where I didn't think there would be that much drop off, there was.


In general the team scored more (per 40 minutes) with the starters on the floor than the backups.

Team points for per 40 minutes on the floor:

Joseph 102
Scrubb 101

Stauskas 105
Heslip 94

Wiggins 105
Doornekamp 95

Bennett 107, Olynyk 103
Sacre 117, Nicholson 100, Powell 90, Ejim 89



The drop off from starters to backups was bigger on the defensive end, as the team allowed many more points when the backups were in the game.

Team points against per 40 minutes on the floor:

Joseph 73
Scrubb 86

Stauskas 72
Heslip 88

Wiggins 76
Doornekamp 83

Bennett 74, Olynyk 75
Nicholson 80, Ejim 81, Sacre 88, Powell 92


In terms of individual statistics, we shot very well as a team; 49% total. Bennett led the way at 60%, and we had 8 guys right around the 50% mark.

Bennett 60%
Wiggins 52%
Stauskas 52%
Nicholson 51%
Joseph 50%
Powell 50%
Sacre 50%
Ejim 49%
Olynyk 49%
Scrubb 44%
Heslip 42%
Doornekamp 38%


Looking at points per field goal attempt, Stauskas, Bennett, Sacre, and Wiggins were each above 1.5:

Stauskas 1.7
Bennett 1.6
Sacre 1.6 (small sample)
Wiggins 1.5
Ejim 1.4
Powell 1.4
Joseph 1.4
Olynyk 1.4
Scrubb 1.3
Nicholson 1.3
Heslip 1.3
Doornekamp 1.1


Ejim was our best rebounder, at 12.9 per 30 minutes:

Ejim 12.9
Powell 10.4
Olynyk 10.1
Bennett 9.7
Nicholson 9.1
Sacre 5.6
Doornekamp 8.9
Wiggins 6.1
Stauskas 5.3
Joseph 4.8
Scrubb 3.1
Heslip 1.7


Joseph led the way in assists per 30 minutes.

Joseph 7.5
Scrubb 4.5
Stauskas 4.2
Olynyk 4.0
Ejim 3.8
Doornekamp 3.7
Nicholson 3.2
Wiggins 3.0
Sacre 2.8
Bennett 2.4
Heslip 1.7
Powell 1.3

Joseph, and all the guards, did a good job taking care of the ball. The bigs actually had more turnovers per 30 minutes.

Stauskas 0.8
Heslip 0.9
Doornekamp 1.1
Sacre 1.4
Bennett 1.6
Joseph 1.7
Scrubb 1.8
Ejim 2.1
Wiggins 2.5
Olynyk 2.6
Nicholson 2.9
Powell 3.5

[Valard]

There's an empty spot marked 2011 in LeBron's trophy case from the Heat saying "if JJ Barea hits big shots to beat us we shouldn't be winning the Finals anyways" lol

The difference in those instances is that Barea with that Mavs group has a legitimate team around him and the game was able to be that close because of Dirk, Kidd, Chandler, etc. The Mavs were not outmatched by the Heat.

In this case with Rico.... Barea is really the only threat. Canada out matches them at basically every position.

[slothrop8]

There's an empty spot marked 2011 in LeBron's trophy case from the Heat saying "if JJ Barea hits big shots to beat us we shouldn't be winning the Finals anyways" lol

The difference in those instances is that Barea with that Mavs group has a legitimate team around him and the game was able to be that close because of Dirk, Kidd, Chandler, etc. The Mavs were not outmatched by the Heat.

In this case with Rico.... Barea is really the only threat. Canada out matches them at basically every position.

Totally agree - just pointing out giving Barea even a glimmer of daylight in a big game can be dangerous. It's all hypothetical anyway - Joseph is healthy and we're playing Venezuela. Looking forward to a big win tonight and locking up that spot in the Olympics.

[thunderforce]

There's an empty spot marked 2011 in LeBron's trophy case from the Heat saying "if JJ Barea hits big shots to beat us we shouldn't be winning the Finals anyways" lol

The difference in those instances is that Barea with that Mavs group has a legitimate team around him and the game was able to be that close because of Dirk, Kidd, Chandler, etc. The Mavs were not outmatched by the Heat.

In this case with Rico.... Barea is really the only threat. Canada out matches them at basically every position.

Totally agree - just pointing out giving Barea even a glimmer of daylight in a big game can be dangerous. It's all hypothetical anyway - Joseph is healthy and we're playing Venezuela. Looking forward to a big win tonight and locking up that spot in the Olympics.

You mean tomorrow night I think .

[slothrop8]

The difference in those instances is that Barea with that Mavs group has a legitimate team around him and the game was able to be that close because of Dirk, Kidd, Chandler, etc. The Mavs were not outmatched by the Heat.

In this case with Rico.... Barea is really the only threat. Canada out matches them at basically every position.

Totally agree - just pointing out giving Barea even a glimmer of daylight in a big game can be dangerous. It's all hypothetical anyway - Joseph is healthy and we're playing Venezuela. Looking forward to a big win tonight and locking up that spot in the Olympics.

You mean tomorrow night I think .

Right, getting carried away - tomorrow night it is. I'd be hard pressed to remember a team I've been as enthusiastic about as this one. I wish they could keep playing - you think we could get a wildcard into the rest of Eurobasket? Would be fascinated to see how this team would stack up.

[northernpuppy]

When was the last time we won this tourney ??

I can only recall 1999 when Nash put a team of scrubs on his back and got us to the 2000 Sydney Olympics.

Did someone say Scrub?

Spoiler:

Real talk though, while Doornenkamp and Scrubb should not have a chance in hell of making any potential Olympic roster (especially if we have TT, Ennis, and Murray available), this should demonstrate the quality of CIS basketball. A large proportion of this board always rags on the CIS and it's nice to see these boys get minutes and hold their own.

[Alfred]

Scrubb might make future rosters, he has been pretty good this tourney.

[thunderforce]

Totally agree - just pointing out giving Barea even a glimmer of daylight in a big game can be dangerous. It's all hypothetical anyway - Joseph is healthy and we're playing Venezuela. Looking forward to a big win tonight and locking up that spot in the Olympics.

You mean tomorrow night I think .

Right, getting carried away - tomorrow night it is. I'd be hard pressed to remember a team I've been as enthusiastic about as this one. I wish they could keep playing - you think we could get a wildcard into the rest of Eurobasket? Would be fascinated to see how this team would stack up.

I feel the same way , after this tournament is done we will all be on a basketball high being so spoiled seeing Wiggins on our team for once . Good thing we won't have to wait too long for nba camps to open .

[mojo13]

When was the last time we won this tourney ??

I can only recall 1999 when Nash put a team of scrubs on his back and got us to the 2000 Sydney Olympics.

Did someone say Scrub?

Spoiler:

Real talk though, while Doornenkamp and Scrubb should not have a chance in hell of making any potential Olympic roster (especially if we have TT, Ennis, and Murray available), this should demonstrate the quality of CIS basketball. A large proportion of this board always rags on the CIS and it's nice to see these boys get minutes and hold their own.

It can easily be argued that at this point in time Scrubb is better than Ennis, Murray, Pangos or Hanlan. I still don't get the hype around an 18 year old Murray for this team. A 20 or 22 year old Murray I understand - I just don't think he would have been a better back-up than Scrubb for this tournament. Maybe not for the Olympics either. Despite the individual offensive brilliance at the PanAms - I saw a young, naive, kid struggling mightily with defense and protecting the ball. I don't remember much play-making either.

In retrospect I am glad we went with Scrubb - at the time of his selection I wasn't quite sure as I had rarely seen him play.

The debate of Scrubb, Ennis, Murray, Pangos or Hanlan is a good problem to have. It think we are confident Murray will rise to the top but we are going to need them all going forward.

frumble - thanks for the legwork on the stats, very interesting as always.

[LLJ]

Cumulative plus/minus through round robin:

Stauskas +161
Wiggins +136
Joseph +128
Bennett +125
Olynyk +108

Nicholson +53
Scrubb +49
Sacre +46
Doornekamp +36
Heslip +24

Ejim +21
Powell -2


No surprise to see the starters at the top, but I am little surprised re how large the differences are.

Even among the bigs, where I didn't think there would be that much drop off, there was.


In general the team scored more (per 40 minutes) with the starters on the floor than the backups.

Team points for per 40 minutes on the floor:

Joseph 102
Scrubb 101

Stauskas 105
Heslip 94

Wiggins 105
Doornekamp 95

Bennett 107, Olynyk 103
Sacre 117, Nicholson 100, Powell 90, Ejim 89



The drop off from starters to backups was bigger on the defensive end, as the team allowed many more points when the backups were in the game.

Team points against per 40 minutes on the floor:

Joseph 73
Scrubb 86

Stauskas 72
Heslip 88

Wiggins 76
Doornekamp 83

Bennett 74, Olynyk 75
Nicholson 80, Ejim 81, Sacre 88, Powell 92


In terms of individual statistics, we shot very well as a team; 49% total. Bennett led the way at 60%, and we had 8 guys right around the 50% mark.

Bennett 60%
Wiggins 52%
Stauskas 52%
Nicholson 51%
Joseph 50%
Powell 50%
Sacre 50%
Ejim 49%
Olynyk 49%
Scrubb 44%
Heslip 42%
Doornekamp 38%


Looking at points per field goal attempt, Stauskas, Bennett, Sacre, and Wiggins were each above 1.5:

Stauskas 1.7
Bennett 1.6
Sacre 1.6 (small sample)
Wiggins 1.5
Ejim 1.4
Powell 1.4
Joseph 1.4
Olynyk 1.4
Scrubb 1.3
Nicholson 1.3
Heslip 1.3
Doornekamp 1.1


Ejim was our best rebounder, at 12.9 per 30 minutes:

Ejim 12.9
Powell 10.4
Olynyk 10.1
Bennett 9.7
Nicholson 9.1
Sacre 5.6
Doornekamp 8.9
Wiggins 6.1
Stauskas 5.3
Joseph 4.8
Scrubb 3.1
Heslip 1.7


Joseph led the way in assists per 30 minutes.

Joseph 7.5
Scrubb 4.5
Stauskas 4.2
Olynyk 4.0
Ejim 3.8
Doornekamp 3.7
Nicholson 3.2
Wiggins 3.0
Sacre 2.8
Bennett 2.4
Heslip 1.7
Powell 1.3

Joseph, and all the guards, did a good job taking care of the ball. The bigs actually had more turnovers per 30 minutes.

Stauskas 0.8
Heslip 0.9
Doornekamp 1.1
Sacre 1.4
Bennett 1.6
Joseph 1.7
Scrubb 1.8
Ejim 2.1
Wiggins 2.5
Olynyk 2.6
Nicholson 2.9
Powell 3.5

Bennett has been a beast this tournament (heck, he's been great all summer from the Pan Ams to now) and surely the most versatile offensive big on the team. He's been probably the best big as a pnr defender too. I'm happy for him that at least he has this to latch onto in his career so far. Seems like a nice kid with some skills who just couldn't handle being picked first. While his NBA career may still be foggy moving forward, we can see he'll be a big part of Team Canada for years to come. It's been really fun following Anthony Bennett's Excellent Summer Adventure. Nice job,Triano.

[Undefeated]

Despite the individual offensive brilliance at the PanAms - I saw a young, naive, kid struggling mightily with defense and protecting the ball. I don't remember much play-making either.

Murray had a nice two man game going on with AB at the PanAms. Routinely found him on the roll hitting him with the pocket bounce pass.

[Too Late Crew]

Count me in the minority ... but I think AD hasn't been that bad. I have no issue with him being on this team; Very unselfish, one of the better passers on the team, extremely active, knows and plays his role.

Yup you are in the minority:
" Very unselfish, one of the better passers on the team, extremely active, knows and plays his role. "

He does NOTHING that Ejim doesn't do. Ejim had a slightly better assist rate, double the rebound rate, he's way more athletic /just as or more active,
As for "knowing their role" that role is a bench energy guy Ejim does that stays within his role and shot 49%. AD wants to shoot 3s which he can't make so he ended up shooting 38% overall.

Point is that there is no need for 2 guys whole play that Sf/PF end of the bench energy role . Its not a big minute role. Ejim is much better at the role and is perfectly capable of playing all the minutes the role requires. That spot AD takes up should be used for a 3rd PG because there is no one to fill that roil.

[Alfred]

Bennett has been a beast this tournament (heck, he's been great all summer from the Pan Ams to now) and surely the most versatile offensive big on the team. He's been probably the best big as a pnr defender too. I'm happy for him that at least he has this to latch onto in his career so far. Seems like a nice kid with some skills who just couldn't handle being picked first. While his NBA career may still be foggy moving forward, we can see he'll be a big part of Team Canada for years to come. It's been really fun following Anthony Bennett's Excellent Summer Adventure. Nice job,Triano.

Yeah, if he keeps playing well for Canada, it would go a long way towards rehabbing his career image, which right now is "total bust". If he could contribute towards a medalling Canadian National team, he'll always have that to fall back on.

[slothrop8]

When was the last time we won this tourney ??

I can only recall 1999 when Nash put a team of scrubs on his back and got us to the 2000 Sydney Olympics.

Did someone say Scrub?

Spoiler:

Real talk though, while Doornenkamp and Scrubb should not have a chance in hell of making any potential Olympic roster (especially if we have TT, Ennis, and Murray available), this should demonstrate the quality of CIS basketball. A large proportion of this board always rags on the CIS and it's nice to see these boys get minutes and hold their own.

It can easily be argued that at this point in time Scrubb is better than Ennis, Murray, Pangos or Hanlan. I still don't get the hype around an 18 year old Murray for this team. A 20 or 22 year old Murray I understand - I just don't think he would have been a better back-up than Scrubb for this tournament. Maybe not for the Olympics either. Despite the individual offensive brilliance at the PanAms - I saw a young, naive, kid struggling mightily with defense and protecting the ball. I don't remember much play-making either.

In retrospect I am glad we went with Scrubb - at the time of his selection I wasn't quite sure as I had rarely seen him play.

The debate of Scrubb, Ennis, Murray, Pangos or Hanlan is a good problem to have. It think we are confident Murray will rise to the top but we are going to need them all going forward.

frumble - thanks for the legwork on the stats, very interesting as always.

I'm with you on Pangos and Hanlan - but Murray and Ennis are several notches above Scrubb in my assessment of them. He came up empty in the game against Brazil - but up to that point Murray was among the best players in the entire tournament in the Pan-Am games. He played Laprovitola to a draw against Argentina and while Laprovitola he ate Scrubb alive in the FIBA Americas.
Scrubb has done a nice job - but if they were both eligible for the next NBA draft Murray is going top 10 for sure - maybe top 5 and Scrubb likely doesn't get picked. A lot of that is potential sure - but a lot of that is also they are just different tiers of player - even right now with Murray only 18.

That being said - I'm pleased with what Scrubb gave this team and am pleased with his contribution. He's been much better than poor Doornekamp who is clearly the weakest player on the team. But, I'd take Murray over Scrubb in a heartbeat.

[frumble]

I think all five starters have played very well and are locks for next summer, provided they are healthy and available.

I think the other seven spots are all up for grabs.

Among the guards, although Scrubb and Heslip have played o.k., I can see Ennis and Murray definitely challenging for spots, and possibly Pangos, Hanlan and Rautins being in the mix as well.

At the 3, I am hoping that a viable alternative to Doornekamp emerges. The most likely option is the Staff seeing Ejim as a 3, and it is also possible that K. Joseph returns to the program, Pierre has a strong senior season and is available, or maybe another guy emerges.

As for the bigs, if TT is available, and if they go with 5 bigs instead of 6, it could mean two of Nicholson, Ejim, Powell, and Sacre get cut.

Anyway, its nice to have decent depth for a change.

[lexxus]

When was the last time we won this tourney ??

I can only recall 1999 when Nash put a team of scrubs on his back and got us to the 2000 Sydney Olympics.

Canada haven't even won gold in FIBA Americas. We were silver in 1999. We lost against the USA.

[Slackstring701]

Havent been able to catch a second of this tourney ....

Anyone mind giving a bit of an update on how CoJo has looked so far