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State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15)

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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3701 » by Mikestro » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:47 am

Pooh_Jeter wrote:I've been a hardcore sports fan for the majority of my life and there have certainly been plenty of moments where I've been bummed out, but this might be the angriest I've ever been about a sporting event. I like to think I'm pretty even keel and while I can get emotional over sports, anger is generally not an emotion I experience. That definitely wasn't the case today, I actually had to step outside and compose myself after the game.

First off, that was a choke job from top to bottom, there is no use singling out anyone, everyone deserves blame. FIBA officiating is far from perfect and the call on that last play was questionable at best, but blaming the refs is just an excuse for such a soft effort from this team. Even the inexperience card I feel like is weak, sure this team is young and it wouldn't have been shocking if you told me there would be some jitters in the semi-finals, but the talent disparity was gigantic and it isn't as though Venezuela is some well oiled machine that is routinely knocking the socks off better competition. There are players on Canada who have played in big basketball games before and they have had what, 8 games to get used to this format. One of the most infuriating aspects is that for as bad as Canada played, it wasn't as though Venezuela was much better, but they kept clawing away. With 3 minutes left, Canada had a 7 point lead and they still couldn't hold on.

In most sports they say the team's personality is a direct result of their coach. Well, if you believe that then having Jay Triano as your coach certainly didn't bode well for Canada. I'm not the only one who noticed how terrible he sounded when he was drawing up the play where Wiggins found Olynyk. I'd have to re-watch the clip, but if I'm not mistaken the play call was actually for Heslip which is LOL. Offensively Canada certainly scored their fair share of points throughout the tournament, but it was mostly due to leveraging superior athleticism/talent on the break. The half court offense was still pretty meandering. I didn't think Triano did a great job of leveraging how much shooting/versatility the bigs on this team possessed. You could have easily played 5 out on offense like the Hawks did at times. Wiggins certainly has room to refine his offensive game, but I think they did a pretty poor job clearing out for him throughout the tournament. Too many times a screen would be called or a big would post up clogging driving lanes. Putting him one on one with the wings in this tournament is only going to lead to good things for Canada. It was a disservice to Wiggins current offensive strengths. In the biggest offensive possessions of the tournament, Triano decided that now was the time to integrate Nicholson into the offense. 3 guys essentially stood around while the team desperately tried to feed him in the post. Nicholson was being effective, but you're playing into the hands of the opponent when the offense becomes that stagnant and predictable.

Defensively this team was largely a disaster all tournament. I get that the personnel wasn't ideal, but Triano did an awful job leveraging the length and athleticism this team possessed. Let's just point out what happened in this game...

Powell who was clearly the best rim protector on the team never really got off the bench in this game and since his injury has been essentially glued to the bench.

Scrubb and Heslip were used as offensive and defensive substitutions in place of a player (Stauskas) who is better offensively and defensively than both of the players who were being used to replace him. If Heslip or Scrubb were shooting lights out, fine, give them extra minutes, but it wasn't as though either was playing great. The starters on team Canada absolutely throttled everyone when they were on the floor, yet in the semi-finals Triano decides it's time to shorten the leash on them. Awful, awful stuff. I believe Undefeated pointed out that Triano was routinely tinkering with lineups and that is true, but that was mostly with the bench unit, not the starters.

Aaron freaking Doornekamp was used as a defensive replacement for Andrew Wiggins. Yes, Wiggins wasn't playing all that well, but there is absolutely no situation I can fathom where I would make that sub. Someone literally could have informed Wiggins in the huddle that both his parents had died and I still would put Wiggins out there instead of Doornekamp. That sub makes Casey putting Rasual Butler in to inbound the ball look like pure genius. I would bet a lot of money the foul on the last play doesn't even have a chance to happen if Triano actually put out his best defensive lineup (Powell, Bennett, Ejim, Wiggins, CoJo). You could have thrown Stauskas in there for Bennett and gone smaller if you wanted to.

I've gone from being over the moon excited about this team to being embarrassed that I've invested so much time into following all aspects of Canadian basketball. The chances of Triano being fired are slim to none, but for the future of this team they need to get someone better. Nationality should not be a factor and if it is, shame on Canada Basketball. Look at the pure joy and adulation an Argentine showed coaching Venezuela. You're trying to tell me there is something wrong with that picture?

I know, super long post and I probably missed a few things, but this was such a crushing defeat. I'm sure with some time I'll be back on the bandwagon, but right now it's tough to imagine rooting so passionately for this team at another major tournament if things remain status quo.


This x10000000

Also, like another poster suggested, Wiggins' post game was SO underutilized even though it's his greatest strength.

I also get that Olynyk had a hot hand but if you're relying on him to win you a crucial game like tonight's then you're playing right into the opponent's hands.

It was also a very poor call made by the coach to go away from the players who played so well for us all tournament (Bennett, Wiggins, CoJo, etc.)

Triano needs to go.
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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3702 » by Macho » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:49 am

5 of theses 8 experienced Euro teams will be at the Olympic qualifying tournament next year: Spain, France, Serbia,Greece,Lithuania, Italy, Croatia, Slovenia. The chances of a top 3 finish are slim.

Today was a colossal failure but really it was not that unexpected when you consider the age of the Canadian team and their lack of time spent playing together. FIBA is a mans game.
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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3703 » by Mr Gametime » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:49 am

What a terrible loss, at least we found out we're not an olympic caliber team now rather then waiting until the olympics, this gives us time to tweak the team and make sure guys like Tristan Thompson play for olympic qualifying. I still expect Canada to be in the olympics and this will make us a better team in the long run.

*Maybe adding some veterans like Dalembert or joel Anthony will help us get through qualifying.
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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3704 » by MixxSRC » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:51 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NStauskas11/status/642542730795610113[/tweet]
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State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3705 » by MasaiLegs » Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:07 am

Olynyk (for all the good he provided tonight) really hurt us with his TO's. He turned it over every time we seemed to get things settled with a small lead. There was a stretch in the late 2nd where he turned it over what seemed like 4 times in a row. Not good TO's either... Unforced and gave Venezuela a fast break. He had a long leash tonight. I understand given the pressure on Scrubb, KO had to bring the ball up at times... But I really think he tried to do too much.

Why was Heslip on in the 4th? He couldn't get free at all which made him useless... I don't buy the spacing argument.

Why did CoJo come in the game in the 4th and jack up a three? Then a long range jumper when he was cold all game?

Why did Wiggins shoot so many jumpers at the end and not attack with his athleticism? Speaking of Wiggins, he shouldve known that they were crowding every defensive rebound and flared his elbows and held it tight. Cost them 3pts.

Why was Doornekamp on the floor for the final possession? Considering we were in the penalty and his rough style of play?

Why did we not give our big time players big minutes considering the stakes? Struggling or not, you can't have your best players on the bench considering the importance of the game.

Why did we not post up KO or Nicholson more? I blame that bad transition three by Nicholson on his lack of touches in the post. Why take a quick three when time was on our side? Venezuela had nobody who could guard our bigs period.

Regardless of the suspect call at the end or the biased reffing... It should not have come to that point. As many have said... This was a huge choke job and they didn't deserve the win.


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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3706 » by frumble » Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:11 am

Macho wrote:5 of theses 8 experienced Euro teams will be at the Olympic qualifying tournament next year: Spain, France, Serbia,Greece,Lithuania, Italy, Croatia, Slovenia. The chances of a top 3 finish are slim.

Today was a colossal failure but really it was not that unexpected when you consider the age of the Canadian team and their lack of time spent playing together. FIBA is a mans game.



Yeah, earlier in this thread I posted the results of European teams in the prior last-chance qualification tournaments; they are dominant.

As Pooh Jeter noted above, it is actually three separate last-chance tourneys (with each one featuring six teams competing for one spot), rather than one big 18-team tournament with 3 available spots.

In 2016, three Olympic Qualifying Tournaments (OQTs) - each consisting of six participating teams - will take place, with the winning team from each event earning a berth for the Olympic Basketball Tournament at the Rio Games.

This replaces the previous system of holding one 12-team Olympic Qualifying Tournament, from which the top three teams qualified.

The 18 teams that will compete in 2016 are to consist of 15 which have qualified - through their respective 2015 continental championships - for the OQTs and three that are OQT hosts.

Here is a breakdown of where the teams will come from:
Africa: 3
Americas: 3
Asia: 3
Europe: 5
Oceania: 1
OQT hosts: 3


http://www.fiba.com/news/new-olympic-qualifying-tournament-format-to-feature-18-teams-playing-across-three-tournaments

I haven't seen anything from FIBA re how the 18 teams will be allocated across the 3 tournaments.
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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3707 » by Danchan » Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:54 am

The trend is that every team raptors fan cheer for chokes and it always comes down to coaching. perhaps it's just that our fans in general overrate our own players and have sh*t eyes for talent?
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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3708 » by Pooh_Jeter » Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:56 am

The Olympics are August 6th-21st, so this tournament likely takes place in July.

I have no idea if the three tournaments are just 6 game round robins or if there is a round robin, then some sort of knockout phase. That is a pretty big commitment from players.

I can't imagine any draft eligible player wanting to commit for that long. If contract talks drag on for any players they won't be available either.
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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3709 » by mathgeek » Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:24 am

frumble wrote:This might be it. People talking about the golden age of Canadian basketball, and 2020 being our best shot, are ignoring the change in qualification process. 2014 Worlds and 2016 Olympics were our two best shots and we somehow failed to qualify for either (pending last chance tournament).

Re the last chance tournament, I thought it was going to be three separate tournaments, each with 6 teams and 1 spot, rather than a big tournament with 18 teams and 3 spots. Can anyone confirm? Hosting rights are up for auction (uh, I mean a fair and transparent bidding process), so maybe Basketball Canada will pony up and we will have a chance of hosting.

In any case, I don't like our chances against the European teams - they dominate these tournaments.

And I don't know how many of our guys will be available or will choose to play next summer.


This is why I'm so pissed, we blew our easiest chance at qualifying, I am scared of the negative impact and effects that it could have on our young players and program in general.

The changes in qualifying for the 2020 Olympics hurt us so much because there is a high chance we don't qualify even though all of our top players will be starting their prime. I can't imagine our NBA or major European players leaving their clubs during the season to play for us. We will have to rely on CIS and semi-professional players, where their only incentive to play for Canada would be to look good for a potential contract and not pour out their heart over what to them could be considered meaningless games. Because after all if we do end up making the Olympics on their backs they will most likely get passed on for the better NBA players. This is certain to create conflict among players and coaches.

Hopefully we can gather everyone next year and get a favorable draw in our group in order to make one final push for the 2016 Olympics.
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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3710 » by Scott Hall » Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:28 am

I knew we were in trouble without Thompson and Murray two of our 3 best players. Wiggins is a combination
of DeRozan and Ross which isnt a good thing. The rest of the roster is mostly made up of low level fringe NBA
players that arent that much more talented then Euroleague players.

Also its hard to admit but weve been the softest team in these tournaments the last few years. The Latin teams
might not be that talented but they are way tougher then our guys. Triano makes Casey look like Popovich.

Its really amazing that Team Canada has almost the exact same flaws as the Raptors its torture
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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3711 » by Calinks » Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:37 am

Truly devastating. To think Canada may not be able to get to the Olympics until 5 years because they missed the boat today. They will have to face far superior competition next summer to win their bracket. Hopefully they can at least be in the world cup in a few years. I really wanted to see them on the Olympic stage though.

Wiggins seems to be at his best when the coach and team actively makes him be the focal point. He doesn't see to naturally want to dominate on offense but he is capable if that's the gameplan. He also played heavy minutes on the wolves having some of the most minutes of any player in the NBA. Can't help but feel like Canada should have really made more effort to play through Wiggins no one out there could handle his speed and athleticism.

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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3712 » by mathgeek » Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:44 am

Pooh_Jeter wrote:The Olympics are August 6th-21st, so this tournament likely takes place in July.

I have no idea if the three tournaments are just 6 game round robins or if there is a round robin, then some sort of knockout phase. That is a pretty big commitment from players.

I can't imagine any draft eligible player wanting to commit for that long. If contract talks drag on for any players they won't be available either.


I mentioned this a bit earlier, but next year we will be essentially left with the same team. Murray, Wiltijer, XRM will most likely be out and focusing on the draft or school. If Tristan gets the qualifying offer this year, he won't be risking injury next summer and be in the same situation he is now, so he's out. Tyler Ennis will definitely be on the boat and Phil Scrubb will be fighting for the 3rd point guard spot with Hanlan again. Other guys to consider are Khem Birch and Trey Lyles. I see Aaron Dornekamp/Rob Sacre not making the team next summer. Nicholson is a big question mark as well.

PG: Joseph, Ennis, Scrubb/Hanlan
SG: Stauskas, Heslip/Rautins?
SF: Wiggins, Ejim
PF: Bennett, Powell, Lyles/Nicholson
C: Olynyk, Birch

You can put Wiggins at the 2, with our bigs being very versatile, I can definitely see a guy like Dwight Powell play the 3, most people don't know but he really has a nice enough offensive arsenal and quickness to play the 3.
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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3713 » by Dr Positivity » Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:55 am

I didn't see the game but looks like a total choke job. To Venezuela man... smh

Our team at the last chance tournament will have tons of talent and with a year more experience for guys like Stauskas or Bennett to break out, so we still have a chance. But smh
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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3714 » by Death Knight » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:24 am

I predict Canada mens basketball will participate in the olympics in 2072 when Nova Scotia hosts the 2072 summer olympic games, since host country gets automatic entry into every event.
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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3715 » by tms » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:34 am

i didnt see this game but reading some of the ideas for rotation shakeups has me lmao. some of you guys cant be serious. or maybe you can. maybe thats the genius of RGM lol

i saw most of the other games tho. the team took a major step forward . havent won anything yet but theyr easily Top 6 or 7 in the World, and i'd venture to say Top 3. every player on the team is or should still be (CoJo) on his rookie deal . nobody wants to play them . they have world class athleticism, size, playmakers and long-distance shooting. Triano's intl background dont hurt either. theyr becoming (if not already) a tour de force . neednt temper ur expectations based on one poor result - the rest of the tournament was jaw-dropping. replace Doorne with TT and ur prob looking at the 2nd most talented roster in the world top to bottom, lacking only a bell cow like Gasol, Scola, Parker or Rautins
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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3716 » by SharoneWright » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:25 am

Macho wrote:5 of theses 8 experienced Euro teams will be at the Olympic qualifying tournament next year: Spain, France, Serbia,Greece,Lithuania, Italy, Croatia, Slovenia. The chances of a top 3 finish are slim.

Worse than that,,, Why would any of our key players want to invest the time and effort to go over there and play for Jay again, after already going through such crap. Good luck, CB.
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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3717 » by IlMagonellaMela » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:28 am

Lol @Triano

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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3718 » by Too Late Crew » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:07 am

Pooh_Jeter wrote:I don't think Triano will be replaced and obviously I have no clue what interest people would have in the job if it were open, but the one obvious name that pops into my head is Mike D'Antoni. He has a connection with Steve Nash and he does have some experience with the international game given his time with Team USA. He played professionally in Italy as well.

It seems like there is no interest from the NBA for his return and while certainly he has his faults (particularly defensively) you can't deny that he was an innovator offensively. You would have to think given the shooting and athleticism this team possesses he would have a field day coaching up Team Canada offensively.


If Triano were to be let go Dave Smart would take over and then when NBA players didn't want to play the entire national team would be made up of Carlton ravens players or recruits.
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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3719 » by UcanUwill » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:32 am

Canada should now hope we get a lot of upsets in Eurobasket 1/8 finals.
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Re: State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15) 

Post#3720 » by Raptolicism » Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:04 am

Normally the bad taste in my mouth on a Saturday morning is booze related. Not today.
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