2015-16 Fake Trade Thread

HornetJail · Post #1081 » by **HornetJail** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:51 pm

LofJ wrote:
MotorKeepsGoing wrote:
LofJ wrote:This won't happen, but I'd freak if it did:

Marvin Williams to Toronto
for
James Johnson and Bismack Biyombo

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6615703

they probably wouldn't trade either one for Marvin, let alone both.

We'd look like fools, but I'd throw in a lottery protected 1st as well.

As would I, but we'd have to find a taker for Hawes or Al because our frontcourt would be way too crowded.

Post #1082 » by **yosemiteben** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:14 pm

Would either of you trade Marvin for James Johnson straight up?

My guess is no. So pretty much this is just another form of refusing to let Biz go. I guess it's pretty much the same as us proposing McRoberts trades all last year, except our FO wanted McRoberts and didn't want Biz.

LofJ · Post #1083 » by **LofJ** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:27 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Would either of you trade Marvin for James Johnson straight up?

My guess is no. So pretty much this is just another form of refusing to let Biz go. I guess it's pretty much the same as us proposing McRoberts trades all last year, except our FO wanted McRoberts and didn't want Biz.

I definitely would, Johnson is the superior player. He's the reason why I was playing around with the trade simulator in the first place. I added Biz both because we need a defensive big and because it made the salaries match.

Post #1084 » by **yosemiteben** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:38 pm

LofJ wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Would either of you trade Marvin for James Johnson straight up?

My guess is no. So pretty much this is just another form of refusing to let Biz go. I guess it's pretty much the same as us proposing McRoberts trades all last year, except our FO wanted McRoberts and didn't want Biz.

I definitely would, Johnson is the superior player. He's the reason why I was playing around with the trade simulator in the first place. I added Biz both because we need a defensive big and because it made the salaries match.

Johnson would need to be that defensive big too, because he's not really bringing any offense. He's a tweener big with a poor jump shot, poor FT shooting, and zero outside shooting. He's relatively undersized with underwhelming rebounding numbers that aren't any better than Marvin's per 36. Marvin is the far superior jump shooter.

HornetJail · Post #1085 » by **HornetJail** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:27 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Would either of you trade Marvin for James Johnson straight up?

My guess is no. So pretty much this is just another form of refusing to let Biz go. I guess it's pretty much the same as us proposing McRoberts trades all last year, except our FO wanted McRoberts and didn't want Biz.

Yeah, fit or no fit, he's a better player and he's cheaper.

Post #1086 » by **yosemiteben** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:29 pm

Interesting. I think he's a defensive minded player with no ability to space the floor or create offense, and we'd be adding him to a team desperate for spacing and more efficient offense, so I really don't think he would be a helpful addition.

Would rather have him line up as a backup SF than Marvin?

HornetJail · Post #1087 » by **HornetJail** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:33 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Interesting. I think he's a defensive minded player with no ability to space the floor or create offense, and we'd be adding him to a team desperate for spacing and more efficient offense, so I really don't think he would be a helpful addition.

Would rather have him line up as a backup SF than Marvin?

I'd play him sparsely, mainly as injury insurance for MKG and Batum. He would not play with MKG.

Post #1088 » by **yosemiteben** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:39 pm

I guess I just don't understand why you would dump a player that addresses a skill set that is desperately lacking on this team for a solid but not elite defensive big that can't rebound or shoot.

HornetJail · Post #1089 » by **HornetJail** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:51 pm

yosemiteben wrote:I guess I just don't understand why you would dump a player that addresses a skill set that is desperately lacking on this team for a solid but not elite defensive big that can't rebound or shoot.

I see Johnson as more of a small forward, who is better defensively than Marvin, and I also don't want our defense to go to absolute **** any time MKG misses a game. Marvin isn't helping us at all- he's not in the rotation, and doesn't give us anything except for shooting- which Lamb, Daniels, Roberts, Lin, Batum, Frank, and maybe even PJ can replicate. Outside of MKG/Batum/Zeller, our defense is putrid.

Post #1090 » by **yosemiteben** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:11 pm

MotorKeepsGoing wrote:I see Johnson as more of a small forward, who is better defensively than Marvin, and I also don't want our defense to go to absolute **** any time MKG misses a game. Marvin isn't helping us at all- he's not in the rotation, and doesn't give us anything except for shooting- which Lamb, Daniels, Roberts, Lin, Batum, Frank, and maybe even PJ can replicate. Outside of MKG/Batum/Zeller, our defense is putrid.

(a) We talk like Marvin isn't in the rotation, but that's far from a given. Marvin is criminally underrated around here, and you can't just assume that guys like Daniels or PJ, neither of whom have ever played a meaningful role for any NBA team during the regular season, are going to match his level of production. I really hope Lamb blows us away with his production, but that's not a given either.

(b) We've gone around about this issue in a few threads, but it just still baffles me that you continue to emphasize our defensive weakness and not the fact that we have had the worst offensive team in the league over the past five year period. Since we got the franchise back in Charlotte in 2004 (11 total seasons), we have never had a team that ranked higher than 23rd in the league in offensive efficiency. We've regularly had bottom 5 offensive efficiency.

By contrast, in that same period there have only been four seasons where we were not at least top half in the league in defensive efficiency. Two of those seasons were the ones immediately before Clifford came, and in each we were last in the league in defensive efficiency. So we had the worst defensive team in the NBA two years in a row, one of which featured both Biz and MKG playing almost 30 MPG. Then Cliff comes, Biz's minutes are cut in half, MKG's minutes dip and he plays 15 less games than the season before due to injury, and we have Big Al playing huge minutes, and we manage to post a top 5 defense. Obviously I trust more in Cliff's defensive system than you do, but I don't think that trust is completely misplaced or dependent solely on a couple players.

I really think that doing any move to bolster our defense at the cost of reducing our offensive weapons and/or efficiency would be foolish at this point in the history of our franchise.

Liver_Pooty · Post #1091 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:03 am

Marvin is not anywhere near out of the rotation. He will backup MKG, and for that I am thankful. Hairston hasn't shown he can play meaningful minutes at all, and Lamb playing the 3 makes me nauseous. Marvin will be just fine off the bench at SF.

OT, but if anyone is truly underrated on this team I firmly believe it's Al Jefferson. Not a popular opinion I know, but his passing is underrated, and now that we actually have shooters I think he will excel.

Braggins · Post #1092 » by **Braggins** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:08 am

yosemiteben wrote:we'd be adding him to a team desperate for spacing and more efficient offense

I think we have more than adequate spacing options at this point. Like 2/3 or more of our roster are mostly shooting specialists. We probably still need more overall offensive talent, but when it comes to second string role players I would much rather have another defender than a shooter/scorer. I feel like we are one more defensive piece away from being a super well balanced roster, only missing a legit #1 guy to take us to the next level (I still think we are pretty well balanced as is).

Braggins · Post #1093 » by **Braggins** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:13 am

I'm with MKG. Marvin does absolutely nothing to help us. His best attribute is that he can kind of play PF and is a decent shooter, but he doesn't really shoot often or accurately enough to really scare teams. He generally is given quite a bit of space and isn't really respected at the 3 point line all that much and he still acts hesitant to shoot it a lot of the time. The only redeeming quality he has is that he isn't stupid and doesn't really stand out as particular bad most of time, but he really doesn't add anything positive other than the simple fact that he isn't PJ. I'd love to replace him in our rotation if anyone can step up or we find a trade for a better backup wing.

Post #1094 » by **yosemiteben** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:08 pm

Braggins wrote:I think we have more than adequate spacing options at this point. Like 2/3 or more of our roster are mostly shooting specialists.

Marvin is the only backup wing on our roster who has any experience getting consistent PT. Our other backup wing options are really unknowns / relatively high risk guys. I'm not at all opposed to a mid season trade of Marvin if other reliable options emerge, but no way do I feel comfortable doing that before we know what sort of production we'll get from our other guys.

Braggins · Post #1095 » by **Braggins** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:47 am

yosemiteben wrote:
Braggins wrote:I think we have more than adequate spacing options at this point. Like 2/3 or more of our roster are mostly shooting specialists.

Marvin is the only backup wing on our roster who has any experience getting consistent PT. Our other backup wing options are really unknowns / relatively high risk guys. I'm not at all opposed to a mid season trade of Marvin if other reliable options emerge, but no way do I feel comfortable doing that before we know what sort of production we'll get from our other guys.

Fair enough. I guess Im just giving our new shooters the benefit of the doubt because if they arent capable of what we are expecting from them then we are probably thoroughly screwed. Im just going to cross my fingers and assume theyll be decent enough.

Liver_Pooty · Post #1096 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:16 am

Braggins wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Braggins wrote:I think we have more than adequate spacing options at this point. Like 2/3 or more of our roster are mostly shooting specialists.

Marvin is the only backup wing on our roster who has any experience getting consistent PT. Our other backup wing options are really unknowns / relatively high risk guys. I'm not at all opposed to a mid season trade of Marvin if other reliable options emerge, but no way do I feel comfortable doing that before we know what sort of production we'll get from our other guys.

Fair enough. I guess Im just giving our new shooters the benefit of the doubt because if they arent capable of what we are expecting from them then we are probably thoroughly screwed. Im just going to cross my fingers and assume theyll be decent enough.

Lamb is the key addition this off season in my opinion. Especially if Batum leaves. If Lamb plays well we could perhaps use the money that we would spend on Batum to max out another player with our abundant cap space.

Honestly, I have no idea what to expect this season.

Post #1097 » by **Diop** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:29 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:
Honestly, I have no idea what to expect this season.

I'm optimistic but I'm like that every year preseason.

Liver_Pooty · Post #1098 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:30 am

Sachmo wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:
Honestly, I have no idea what to expect this season.

I'm optimistic but I'm like that every year preseason.

I think were going to win 50 games.

Not even kidding.

Post #1099 » by **yosemiteben** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:54 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:
Sachmo wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:
Honestly, I have no idea what to expect this season.

I'm optimistic but I'm like that every year preseason.

I think were going to win 50 games.

Not even kidding.

Makes two of us.

Braggins · Post #1100 » by **Braggins** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:01 am

50 games is bold, but we do have an underrated roster and I actually really like our balance. I'm still worried we'll be a little too mediocre on both sides of the ball, but if our defense lives up to our last two seasons and we can maintain an average offense it is certainly possible to get 45-50 wins. I mean, I think we are more talented than Toronto was last year and they won 49.

I feel kind of silly saying this after how I reacted to drafting him, but I actually find myself getting excited about Frank. I'm not really convinced hes going to be that good but if he is finally the draft pick we hit on that actually turns out to be a really good player he could make a huge impact for us. I like his skill set and I'm holding out some hope that he could end up being one of our main 3 or 4 guys by next season.