State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15)

PoundTown · Post #3881 » by **PoundTown** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:18 am

Thank you Cory for making that shot and the one before that. Was still a disapointing tourny overall, but that was a bit of a character builder. If everyone that can, comes back next year (really only worried about Tristan and Jamaal not being able to make qualifiers) than there is still a good shot they can qualify. Just figuring out how to win right now when a team vet is 25 years old. It'll gett better.

Pooh_Jeter · Post #3882 » by **Pooh_Jeter** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:51 am

Undefeated wrote:
Pooh_Jeter wrote:There was definitely some 4-out offense, but I don't recall any legitimate 5-out play unless I missed it. I don't think the Spurs ran anything 5-out, but I remember catching Atlanta doing it on occasion. In FIBA the paint can get so packed in you have to try some different things to maximize spacing. The great thing about the Canadian bigs is that not only can they shoot, but they can put the ball on the floor too. It would have stretched the defense even more and would have opened up some more driving lanes for the guards.

You're right, there wasn't any 5-out from Canada, and I haven't seen the Hawks run it since they use Motion Strong as their secondary break that flows automatically into their 4-out half-court offense and into Horns off of a corner split (strongside stagger), and haven't seen any other FIBA American team run it. Canada's spacing wasn't an issue at all since they ran some nice roll-&-replace/lift action with their bigs which you can see from their favourite set "Fist Up Short" that led to all those lobs, and backside DHO actions with Wiggins attacking immediately as a counter when defense took away the lob. Sometimes, movement can be used as a component to create spacing. Not necessary to have a post open offense to maximize floor spacing.

I'm definitely with you on how movement can positively effect spacing. It wasn't as though Canada had trouble scoring, but there were definitely times when the ball and player movement stagnated in the half court.

I'm not sure off ball cuts were utilized enough by Canada, but there are a number of factors that play into that. You need players who can recognize when and where to cut and there can be a ton of clutching and grabbing when there are any cuts, backdoor screens, etc. Also, it's tough to implement this into the offense as a whole with such little preparation time. You could definitely see aspects of this in the offense, but it was never totally free flowing IMO.

I think maybe that is where inexperience and youth from the players perspectives shines through. It's easy to see how inexperience can manifest itself in terms of missing shots and coughing up turnovers, but it isn't necessarily obvious when players can't improvise out of broken offensive sets or just normal half court sets.

We have a tendency to blame the coach (I'm guilty of this myself), but you do have to kind of double back on your thinking and realize that even though this was a gigantic missed opportunity this is still really a program in it's infancy. I loved hearing Nash talk about how the culture has to be instituted not just at the Senior level, but when these guys are 12 years old.

Offensively the players will mature and I think Triano can create an even more efficient offense with time, but I still have major reservations about the defensive structure of this team. TT developing into a rim protector will certainly ease the burden on coaching, but there has to be a better way to utilize this team's athleticism and length.

Reg00 · Post #3883 » by **Reg00** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:11 pm

Triano has the most job security in all of basketball.

It'll be another leap forward for Canadian basketball when the perception that there is only one head coach in all the land is lost.

Mad Prophet · Post #3884 » by **Mad Prophet** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:26 pm

IlMagonellaMela wrote:
Mad Prophet wrote:Slovenia would have to be picked as a wildcard, but I wouldn't be concerned with them. The team is very young, many of the vets are moving on.

1) no wild cards next year
2) you're not concerned about Slovenia?
Canada lose with Venezuela!!
not concerned

3 points (not including the one on your head):

1) http://www.americas2015.com/en/rio.asp
FIBA will choose 3 countries to host the qualifying tournaments, in other words, wildcards.

2) Being of Slovene origin I take a strong interest in watching all of their international appearances over many years. I've seen my share of contending teams and rebuilding ones. I don't need lessons from you on the current state of the team.

3)

aw8 · Post #3885 » by **aw8** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:28 pm

Reg00 wrote:Triano has the most job security in all of basketball.

It'll be another leap forward for Canadian basketball when the perception that there is only one head coach in all the land is lost.

Another factor that people don't seem to understand is of how important Triano has been in helping Steve Nash get a US college scholarship, Triano was the one to send Nash's high school tapes to schools all around US, so in a way Nash owes Triano something for his NBA career.

IlMagonellaMela · Post #3886 » by **IlMagonellaMela** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:29 pm

Mad Prophet wrote:
IlMagonellaMela wrote:
Mad Prophet wrote:Slovenia would have to be picked as a wildcard, but I wouldn't be concerned with them. The team is very young, many of the vets are moving on.

1) no wild cards next year
2) you're not concerned about Slovenia?
Canada lose with Venezuela!!
not concerned

3 points (not including the one on your head):

1) http://www.americas2015.com/en/rio.asp
FIBA will choose 3 countries to host the qualifying tournaments, in other words, wildcards.

2) Being of Slovene origin I take a strong interest in watching all of their international appearances over many years. I've seen my share of contending teams and rebuilding ones. I don't need lessons from you on the current state of the team.

3)

1) Slovenia organizing the pre-olympic?
Sabonis told this cost about 1.7 million
I ha ve some doubt

2)
slovenia was horrible last year. Do you remember the game against Lithuania?
4 (FOUR !!!) points in last 12 min.
And lithuania didn't care about the W !!
Horrible in 2014, pathetic in 2015.
They have no hopes , no olympic games, in no way, with or without Dragic

aw8 · Post #3887 » by **aw8** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:31 pm

[Vine][/Vine]

IlMagonellaMela wrote:
Mad Prophet wrote:
IlMagonellaMela wrote:
1) no wild cards next year
2) you're not concerned about Slovenia?
Canada lose with Venezuela!!
not concerned

3 points (not including the one on your head):

1) http://www.americas2015.com/en/rio.asp
FIBA will choose 3 countries to host the qualifying tournaments, in other words, wildcards.

2) Being of Slovene origin I take a strong interest in watching all of their international appearances over many years. I've seen my share of contending teams and rebuilding ones. I don't need lessons from you on the current state of the team.

3)

1) Slovenia organizing the pre-olympic?
Sabonis told this cost about 1.7 million
I ha ve some doubt

2)
slovenia was horrible last year. Do you remember the game against Lithuania?
4 (FOUR !!!) points in last 12 min.
And lithuania didn't care about the W !!
Horrible in 2014, pathetic in 2015.
They have no hopes , no olympic games, in no way, with or without Dragic

Croatia just lost making it harder for Canada

Sluggerface · Post #3888 » by **Sluggerface** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:02 pm

TheFutureMM wrote:
The point I'm trying to make is that the disparity in skill between "NBA" players and other pro-basketball players is not as big a gap as the NBA wants us to believe.

Actually, it is. You do realize that most international leagues have a limit on how many players they can have on the roster that are considered international by their standards? This is to prevent one club from signing a bunch of undrafted high major college graduates to ludicrously cheap contracts and rolling over their leagues. They spread international players around in order to pump talent into the league while preserving competition. You're overrating the hell out of these players based on what happens in one game formats (where randomness plays more of an effect)

Double Bubble · Post #3889 » by **Double Bubble** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:33 pm

This moral victory stuff is really distracting from the real discussion that should be taking place. The late timeout by Triano was the personification of team Canadas issues. He draws up a play with uncertainty, then changes it only to have it fall apart. His team was mentally not prepared to play and that is also on him. Now cue the retards saying Cory Joseph eats too many jelly donuts.

mojo13 · Post #3890 » by **mojo13** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:27 pm

aw8 wrote:[Vine][/Vine]
IlMagonellaMela wrote:
Mad Prophet wrote:
3 points (not including the one on your head):

1) http://www.americas2015.com/en/rio.asp
FIBA will choose 3 countries to host the qualifying tournaments, in other words, wildcards.

2) Being of Slovene origin I take a strong interest in watching all of their international appearances over many years. I've seen my share of contending teams and rebuilding ones. I don't need lessons from you on the current state of the team.

3)

1) Slovenia organizing the pre-olympic?
Sabonis told this cost about 1.7 million
I ha ve some doubt

2)
slovenia was horrible last year. Do you remember the game against Lithuania?
4 (FOUR !!!) points in last 12 min.
And lithuania didn't care about the W !!
Horrible in 2014, pathetic in 2015.
They have no hopes , no olympic games, in no way, with or without Dragic

Croatia just lost making it harder for Canada

I am not sure if you guys know how this works. My understanding is the 3rd to 7th place teams in Eurobasket go to the pre Olympic qualifier. Both Croatia and Slovenia can finish no higher than 9th now. So this could be a good thing. Same as if Lithuania loses. turkey is out of the top 8 too.
Yes they can be involved if they want to spend the money to host a qualifier. But they all won't get that opportunity or take it. There will be deeper pockets out there. And fiba will not give all the qualifier tournaments to Europe. I bet there will be one in Europe and the other two in Africa, Americas, and/or Asia. What if deep pocketed Finland wants to host - all the teams mentioned above could be out of it.

We want as many upsets as possible in this round of 16 in euro basket.

frumble · Post #3891 » by **frumble** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:49 pm

mojo13 wrote:
My understanding is the 3rd to 7th place teams in Eurobasket go to the pre Olympic qualifier. Both Croatia and Slovenia can finish no higher than 9th now. So this could be a good thing. Same as if Lithuania loses. turkey is out of the top 8 too.
Yes they can be involved if they want to spend the money to host a qualifier. But they all won't get that opportunity or take it. There will be deeper pockets out there. And fiba will not give all the qualifier tournaments to Europe. I bet there will be one in Europe and the other two in Africa, Americas, and/or Asia. What if deep pocketed Finland wants to host - all the teams mentioned above could be out of it.

We want as many upsets as possible in this round of 16 in euro basket.

That's right, its the 3rd through 7th teams that will be in the last-chance tournaments. If any of 3rd through 7th win hosting rights, the 8th place team will get a spot as well.

So it was round of 16 when we wanted upsets. We got Czech over Croatia. And I guess Latvia over Slovenia was an upset as well.

But no real big upsets (like Israel, Poland, Georgia, Belgium or Finland winning would have been).

As a result, five to six out of these eight will be in the last-chance tournaments next summer:
Latvia
Greece
Spain
France
Czech Republic
Serbia
Italy
Lithuania

FWIW, the lowest ranked of these teams are Italy (36th), Latvia (38th), and Czech Republic (49th). The other five are all top 10.

So we may want to hope for Italy, Latvia and Czech to finish 3rd to 7th, and for a couple of them (rather than Serbia, Greece, France, Spain, or Lithuania) to end up in Canada's last-chance tourney.

IlMagonellaMela · Post #3892 » by **IlMagonellaMela** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:28 am

frumble wrote:
FWIW, the lowest ranked of these teams are Italy (36th), Latvia (38th), and Czech Republic (49th). The other five are all top 10.

So we may want to hope for Italy, Latvia and Czech to finish 3rd to 7th, and for a couple of them (rather than Serbia, Greece, France, Spain, or Lithuania) to end up in Canada's last-chance tourney.

LOL

You look at the rank but you didn't see a game in the Eurobasket for sure
Italy way better than Spain (destroyed 1 week ago)

Canada, venezuela, and Argentina can't be in the first 8 in Eurobasket
Latvia beat Slovenia and Czech just destroyed Croatia

You had your chance

22haytham22 · Post #3893 » by **22haytham22** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:29 am

Seriously with the talent we have and people are worried about Slovenia and Croatia than I am embarrassed for the talent we have.

IlMagonellaMela · Post #3894 » by **IlMagonellaMela** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:38 am

22haytham22 wrote:Seriously with the talent we have and people are worried about Slovenia and Croatia than I am embarrassed for the talent we have.

c'mon
You lose with Venezuela.
ANd Venezuela can't be in the first 16 of Eurobasket
Talent?
I've seen Olynik against scola
Embarassing, the worst defender i've seen in last years
Compared to him, Amar'e is Bill Russell

Badonkadonk · Post #3895 » by **Badonkadonk** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:31 am

Bargs will be back to sink Italy, not really worried about those scrubs.

Some tough opponents in the rest of that list.

Oh well, the core of the team is very young, some bumps were expected.

IlMagonellaMela · Post #3896 » by **IlMagonellaMela** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:20 am

mojo13 wrote:. And fiba will not give all the qualifier tournaments to Europe. I bet there will be one in Europe and the other two in Africa, Americas, and/or Asia. What if deep pocketed Finland wants to host - all the teams mentioned above could be out of it.

We want as many upsets as possible in this round of 16 in euro basket.

2 for sure

Russia want to host (and Russia with Mozgov+Shved+Kaun is a a good team)
And i think Croatia would too, maybe Germany
And Turkey
So in every tourneament 2 euro NT. At least

Kabookalu · Post #3897 » by **Kabookalu** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:52 am

Watching highlights of the Venezuela game, and I can't help but think Kelly Olynyk would be an all star if he didn't have T-Rex arms and had average athleticism. He's highly skilled and crafty for a big man with extremely high basketball IQ. The guy can shoot from everywhere, create his own shot from everywhere, can handle the ball, and has great vision. Just too bad that although he's fluid and coordinated as an athlete, he's about the slowest player I've ever seen. And not having a longer wingspan can hurt him sometimes, especially defensively. You can tell he has really high IQ as he's always in great position, but he doesn't block as many shots/intercept as many passes as he's capable of because of his lack of wingspan.

I can imagine him dominating these international competitions in the near future. He'll be Dirk like against inferior competition.

IlMagonellaMela · Post #3898 » by **IlMagonellaMela** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:05 am

Choker wrote:Watching highlights of the Venezuela game, and I can't help but think Kelly Olynyk would be an all star if he didn't have T-Rex arms and had average athleticism. He's highly skilled and crafty for a big man with extremely high basketball IQ. The guy can shoot from everywhere, create his own shot from everywhere, can handle the ball, and has great vision. Just too bad that although he's fluid and coordinated as an athlete, he's about the slowest player I've ever seen. And not having a longer wingspan can hurt him sometimes, especially defensively. You can tell he has really high IQ as he's always in great position, but he doesn't block as many shots/intercept as many passes as he's capable of because of his lack of wingspan.

I can imagine him dominating these international competitions in the near future. He'll be Dirk like against inferior competition.

Don't watch highlights, watch Argentina-Canada.
The worst defender in the last decade, horrible

Kabookalu · Post #3899 » by **Kabookalu** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:10 am

IlMagonellaMela wrote:Don't watch highlights, watch Argentina-Canada.
The worst defender in the last decade, horrible

It's like I said though, lack of wingspan hurts him a lot. Being slow as molasses hurts him a lot. Except when he has to rotate quickly and he fails to because of his lack of speed, I usually come away impressed with his positioning. He knows where to be, he just can't get there fast enough, and even when he is there, it's fruitless anyways because it's hard for him to contest shots with his lack of length.

He has the basketball IQ to be a defensive anchor, but not the physical tools to. He shouldn't be the center.

IlMagonellaMela · Post #3900 » by **IlMagonellaMela** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:20 am

Choker wrote:
IlMagonellaMela wrote:Don't watch highlights, watch Argentina-Canada.
The worst defender in the last decade, horrible

It's like I said though, lack of wingspan hurts him a lot. Being slow as molasses hurts him a lot. Except when he has to rotate quickly and he fails to because of his lack of speed, I usually come away impressed with his positioning..

C'mon!!
He miss AT LEAST 3 boxout against Scola's jumpshots
And this is inexcusable
Scola is a great player but you can't let him shot and THEN grab his own rebound without try a boxout