Possibly 'best in league' defensive center tandem in hibbert and upshaw?

[RingsDontLie]

Can you think of any other team that will have a better defensive presence than us if Upshaw gets the nod as hibberts backup? When is the last time we had two really good defensive minded centers on the Lakers?

[dockingsched]

If you're just talking about those two, I actually put the lakers are one of the worst center tandems in the league. Teams are going to spread them so wide lakers will be forced to bench either one for a quicker more agile big that can rotate and defend the pick n roll.

Neither have the skills to make the opposition pay for going small

[DEEP3CL]

Can you think of any other team that will have a better defensive presence than us if Upshaw gets the nod as hibberts backup? When is the last time we had two really good defensive minded centers on the Lakers?

Slow your brakes on Upshaw, he has to literally beat out Tarik Black and even Sacre to get a roster spot.

[DEEP3CL]

If you're just talking about those two, I actually put the lakers are one of the worst center tandems in the league. Teams are going to spread them so wide lakers will be forced to bench either one for a quicker more agile big that can rotate and defend the pick n roll.

Neither have the skills to make the opposition pay for going small

Lol....so pessimistic, and frankly part of your statement is false. Teams can try to space the Lakers all day, but Hibbert is one of the better interior defenders in the league. People are sleeping on 11/2 bad seasons he had in Indy. Point blank he fell out of favor with Vogel almost from day one and Vogel was the root part of most of his descending play.

But the Lakers will be better up front than a lot of other teams, no way in hell they'll be the worst or near bottom as you make it seem. In terms of trying to space them, that job falls on the the perimeter guys first. They have to contain and not give up easy driving lanes, and if Kobe, JC and D-Lo are starting switching up top isn't a big deal. Defense is about angles more so than about speed.

The job will fall on those guys to funnel guys to Hibbert rather than depending on him to cover up from the weak side just to stop penetration. This is where teams get in trouble, the objective is to send those guys to Roy or if Roy does have to come help you want it from the strong side where he's stepping up to get a block or force rotation back to weak side.

Offensively Roy can produce given the right situations, no the Lakers aren't going to run offense through him but if he rebounds like he says he will the offensive boards should be no problem and that's where he'll eat for his points.

With Roy losing weight this will help, I tend to think the guy is hungry and at just 28 years old he can make this his last stop if he plays it right or if he wants it that bad....seems like he does from the stuff I've heard.

[Mirjalovic]

not yet.

be patient dude.

[iamworthy]

If you're just talking about those two, I actually put the lakers are one of the worst center tandems in the league. Teams are going to spread them so wide lakers will be forced to bench either one for a quicker more agile big that can rotate and defend the pick n roll.

Neither have the skills to make the opposition pay for going small

I assumed he meant paint protection. Although all that still remains to be seen. But check this out, the laker part is interesting. This is one of the ways we played the pick n roll back in the day....have the big man sage/open up and allow the guard to get through while the big helps cut off the dribble drive, sure the other big is left open for a long three or duece but how many bigs can hit from that range with a high percentage Id be curious to see how many teams have centers or PF that are knock down shooters from distance.

Also, the article below is from 2014

http://hoopchalk.com/2014/08/20/team-pick-and-roll-defense-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly/

[Marionettetc]

Best in league? Not by a country mile.

Worst in league? Doubtful.

[dockingsched]

If you're just talking about those two, I actually put the lakers are one of the worst center tandems in the league. Teams are going to spread them so wide lakers will be forced to bench either one for a quicker more agile big that can rotate and defend the pick n roll.

Neither have the skills to make the opposition pay for going small

I assumed he meant paint protection. Although all that still remains to be seen. But check this out, the laker part is interesting. This is one of the ways we played the pick n roll back in the day....have the big man sage/open up and allow the guard to get through while the big helps cut off the dribble drive, sure the other big is left open for a long three or duece but how many bigs can hit from that range with a high percentage Id be curious to see how many teams have centers or PF that are knock down shooters from distance.

Also, the article below is from 2014

http://hoopchalk.com/2014/08/20/team-pick-and-roll-defense-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly/

very nice piece there, makes MDA look good on the defensive end, hard to accomplish that. I wonder how they did last year under Scott.

As far as which bigs can make em pay from distance, thats why i said teams can go small with no repercussions. Hibbert, but specially Upshaw, aren't going to take their smaller man down low and start making them pay by posting up. They aren't going to start to dominate the glass and make them pay by cleaning up the boards.

May be I'm still clouded by what I saw in the summer league, but I don't think Upshaw is NBA caliber right now and his lateral quickness isn't up to par to be in the NBA.

[what would jack bauer do?]

I love upshaw's potential but, I think upshaw is going to look like trash compared to Hibbert. He has the instincts and the length, but his body needs some serious work as does his conditioning. I don't think his ceiling is anywhere near Bynum's but I see him as a project that can be molded much like Bynum was.

[Slava]

Strangely enough I saw more offensive potential than defensive awareness from him in the summer league. The turnaround jumper he hit on Towns was memorable, he was also making some nice cuts off the pick and roll that Clarkson and Russell missed.

His rotations on defense on the other hand were non-existant, which is rather important for a shot blocking anchor.

[iamworthy]

If you're just talking about those two, I actually put the lakers are one of the worst center tandems in the league. Teams are going to spread them so wide lakers will be forced to bench either one for a quicker more agile big that can rotate and defend the pick n roll.

Neither have the skills to make the opposition pay for going small

I assumed he meant paint protection. Although all that still remains to be seen. But check this out, the laker part is interesting. This is one of the ways we played the pick n roll back in the day....have the big man sage/open up and allow the guard to get through while the big helps cut off the dribble drive, sure the other big is left open for a long three or duece but how many bigs can hit from that range with a high percentage Id be curious to see how many teams have centers or PF that are knock down shooters from distance.

Also, the article below is from 2014

http://hoopchalk.com/2014/08/20/team-pick-and-roll-defense-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly/

very nice piece there, makes MDA look good on the defensive end, hard to accomplish that. I wonder how they did last year under Scott.

As far as which bigs can make em pay from distance, thats why i said teams can go small with no repercussions. Hibbert, but specially Upshaw, aren't going to take their smaller man down low and start making them pay by posting up. They aren't going to start to dominate the glass and make them pay by cleaning up the boards.

May be I'm still clouded by what I saw in the summer league, but I don't think Upshaw is NBA caliber right now and his lateral quickness isn't up to par to be in the NBA.

I think Upshaw is a few years away. Although honestly if he gets his conditioning up "alot" and learn B-Scotts defensive principles he might be okay sooner. As far as how many years its going to take for him to look like something is there really any difference between him and DLo? DLo currently looks better than Upshaw but we also expect alot more.

[ArC_man]

I don't think Upshaw is going to get any minutes over Sacre/Black unless he completely kills it in pre-season and in practice. Sacre is actually being underrated by some, he's always been a solid positional defender.

This ability is reflected in the numbers, as well. Last year teams shot 61.9% from the field in the restricted area against the Lakers. That was the 5th worst mark in the league. When Sacre was in the game, however, that number fell to 55.5%:

...

*Per the NBA’s stats tool, the Lakers were 7.3 points per 100 possessions better defensively when Sacre was on the floor versus when he was on the bench. This was the largest differential on the team and equivalent to the difference between the Warriors’ league best defense and the Nuggets’ 26th best defense. For more context, when Sacre was not in the game the Lakers Defensive Efficiency was 110.1, a mark which would have been the worst in the league over the course of the full season. While he was on the floor, the Lakers Defensive Efficiency was 102.8, which would have ranked in between the 12th ranked Celtics (102.1) and the 13th ranked Clippers. This isn’t really a small sample either, as Sacre played over 1,100 minutes last year, many of them as a rotation player against other team’s top big men.

http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2015/09/15/one-player-one-skill-robert-sacres-defensive-positioning/

[PKABOOICU]

i think he's better than both sacre and black due to defense alone....showed a nice soft hook around the rim as well.

[john248]

If you're just talking about those two, I actually put the lakers are one of the worst center tandems in the league. Teams are going to spread them so wide lakers will be forced to bench either one for a quicker more agile big that can rotate and defend the pick n roll.

Neither have the skills to make the opposition pay for going small

I assumed he meant paint protection. Although all that still remains to be seen. But check this out, the laker part is interesting. This is one of the ways we played the pick n roll back in the day....have the big man sage/open up and allow the guard to get through while the big helps cut off the dribble drive, sure the other big is left open for a long three or duece but how many bigs can hit from that range with a high percentage Id be curious to see how many teams have centers or PF that are knock down shooters from distance.

Also, the article below is from 2014

http://hoopchalk.com/2014/08/20/team-pick-and-roll-defense-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly/

very nice piece there, makes MDA look good on the defensive end, hard to accomplish that. I wonder how they did last year under Scott.

As far as which bigs can make em pay from distance, thats why i said teams can go small with no repercussions. Hibbert, but specially Upshaw, aren't going to take their smaller man down low and start making them pay by posting up. They aren't going to start to dominate the glass and make them pay by cleaning up the boards.

May be I'm still clouded by what I saw in the summer league, but I don't think Upshaw is NBA caliber right now and his lateral quickness isn't up to par to be in the NBA.

Hibbert's rim protection is still elite though, and more so than other defensive types who really need to see the bench. When Hibbert was caught in space, he has good knee bend and used his length well to funnel smaller guards away. I suppose you could counter and say the Pacers had a bunch of mobile guys like Paul George, Stephenson, West everywhere else; obviously Hibbert has no such help here with the Lakers aside from Bass. But Hibbert's length is something he's always had over other 1-way defensive types.

Hibbert is a 25mpg type anyways, so that leaves a lot of slack for minutes given that he was never a huge minutes type. He may have been just shy of 30 mpg before, but expectations aren't such anymore either. Being 7'2" with a ton of length and willing to box out helps a ton too even though he's not an elite rebounder. I think my tune changed on him due to some homer bias, but Hibbert is no Joel Anthony...all about that length.

I was never a fan of the trade though and still am not. He's a non factor on offense even if he can stretch the floor a bit and kinda post up smaller guys. And 1 year rentals don't appeal to me. Then you have a guy who's due to get paid a lot to play 20 something minutes.

[tugs]

Probably going with Chandler-Len combo here.

[eckoner]

Upshaw is simply RAW POTENTIAL
nothing less nothing more
lets hope for the best

[DadoTheRabbet]

I think what they're trying to build is a team that can handle any kind of game that's thrown at them. Hibbert for actual center-sized centers, Black for small-ball and either Upshaw (hopefully) or Sacre (if necessary) as just a general back-up. This would be the smartest way to go - IF everything and everyone works out to the Lakers' advantage. Big "if."

But guess what... The season hasn't started. Shockingly, the preseason hasn't even begun. We fans haven't seen squat and, therefore, have extraordinarly little on which to base any predictions.

Patience. It's a good thing.

[Kilroy]

I think if you expect Upshaw to be anything more than Hibbert's tackling dummy in practice, you've got unreasonable expectations.

"Best Defensive Center Tandem" is ludicrous. Hibbert might be back to being one of the best in the league, but to expect Upshaw to be any kind of 'tandem' with him is on the verge of being completely insane.

Now, Hibbert/Black on the other hand, may be worth dreaming about if you want to just completely ignore the fact Sacre's a better all around player than either of them right now.

[LApwnd]

we had Howard at C and still sucked on D, we had Bynum who was paint packing monster and still sucked on D with the funneling scheme. We could have prime Dikembe at C and still suck on D, the guards suck on the perimeter and are horrible at that funneling scheme and when our C get stucked in PnR situation they never seem to know what to do because our guards are stupid too at rotation, so our C are always to far back and the guards coming off a screen get a wide open jumper and if the C do show they dont do it aggresive enough and the guard get into the paint for drive and kick or a wide open layup because once again the rest of our guys dont switch. In summary, the D will suck no matter who's playing C.

[Tee212]

i hope he takes sacre spot asap, far as two defensive centers that could be true on defensive end in spurts. lets wait and see.