Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Personally, I'll always love Nash. Probably my favorite player ever followed by Barkley and KJ. Those teams were the most fun teams I've ever watched. Nash always left it all on the floor. By the time he left us, he was pretty much done. Most had wanted him to leave years prior. I don't blame Nash (although it was upsetting initially seeing him going to the Lakers). Now I thank him. He often mentions in interviews his love for the team and says that playing in Phoenix were some of the best times of his life. You think he would have done the video at all if he didn't feel some sort of ties to the team?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I'll always be in the pro Steve Nash camp. Looking forward to his ROH induction and eventual HOF induction.

Agreed. Nash is the greatest Sun. For a Suns fan to hate him for any reason is heresy.

[Leapinlarry22]

Like SunsFanSSOL, I was also disappointed Nash went to the Lakers. I could not believe it when it happened. I remember thinking he was going to go back to Dallas or go to NY with Amare. When I saw the breaking news at the time that he was signing with the Lakers I was flabbergasted. Since then, I never felt the same way about Nash. I really do not care about him ever coming back and working with the Suns. Yes he provided the organization with some of the greatest years in franchise history, but he never won more than two WCF games. I still consider Barkley the all-time greatest Sun and it is honestly not even close.

He didn't sign with the Lakers, the Suns traded him to the Lakers and ripped them off in the process. He's a Sun, he helped us rip off the lakers, he barely played there. The Suns should have traded him 2 years earlier when the contending window was closed.


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Nash was an unrestricted free agent. He was signed and traded to the Lakers because the Lakers did not have the cap space to sign him outright. If they did, he would have just signed with them without a sign and trade. He was absorbed into the trade exception they had. He also asked Robert Sarver to make it happen. I remember watching Sarver talk about it when it happened. Sarver said his first reaction was no. Then he said his second reaction was HELL NO. But Nash and his agent asked him to do it so Sarver obliged.

The point is that he chose to sign with the Lakers over any other team. His reasoning was that he would be close to his kids while still having the chance to play for a championship. NY was too far away from his kids supposedly. It also did not hurt that the Lakers gave him a really competitive offer of 3 years, 27 million dollars.

This was the quote that made me so disappointed he signed with the Lakers: ["The truth is I'm a bit old school," Nash said in the June 25 interview. "For me, it would be hard to put on a Lakers jersey. That's just the way it is. You play against them so many times in the playoffs, and I just use them as an example, and I have the utmost respect for them and their organization.] http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8130840/steve-nash-headed-los-angeles-lakers-sign-trade-deal

I don't see how you can blame any player for something like that. In the end Steve Nash helped us rip off the Lakers, he was done. Suns were not going to bring him back, they maximized their asset as they should have done two years earlier. Steve Nash wanted to stay close to his kids. In today's world superstars in all sports leave their primary team at the very end all the time, because they think they can still play when they are in fact over the hill. Nash did The same thing as Emmitt Smith, emmitt is still a cowboy through and through, Steve is still a Sun through and through.



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[bwgood77]

Like SunsFanSSOL, I was also disappointed Nash went to the Lakers. I could not believe it when it happened. I remember thinking he was going to go back to Dallas or go to NY with Amare. When I saw the breaking news at the time that he was signing with the Lakers I was flabbergasted. Since then, I never felt the same way about Nash. I really do not care about him ever coming back and working with the Suns. Yes he provided the organization with some of the greatest years in franchise history, but he never won more than two WCF games. I still consider Barkley the all-time greatest Sun and it is honestly not even close.

I understand your Nash take but am surprised given what you said about Nash, that you would actually choose Barkley as your all time favorite Sun unless it is just nostalgia. He partied too hard after we were up 3-1 against Houston and we blew the series, and then two years later, he is playing for them. Greatest Sun...he is FAR from that. Greatest player who was a Sun at one point? Maybe.

Who do you think is better?

Who is better as a spokesman or who was a better player? Neither are my absolute favorite but their strengths are so different it is tough. I love team ball more than hero ball so I would probably lean Nash, and he always worked as hard as he could to be as mentally prepared as he could be. They both are historically good at things...Nash at shooting and Barkley at rebounding for his size. Barkley is probably the bigger talent, but it's fairly close.

[King4Day]

I understand your Nash take but am surprised given what you said about Nash, that you would actually choose Barkley as your all time favorite Sun unless it is just nostalgia. He partied too hard after we were up 3-1 against Houston and we blew the series, and then two years later, he is playing for them. Greatest Sun...he is FAR from that. Greatest player who was a Sun at one point? Maybe.

Who do you think is better?

Who is better as a spokesman or who was a better player? Neither are my absolute favorite but their strengths are so different it is tough. I love team ball more than hero ball so I would probably lean Nash, and he always worked as hard as he could to be as mentally prepared as he could be. They both are historically good at things...Nash at shooting and Barkley at rebounding for his size. Barkley is probably the bigger talent, but it's fairly close.

I'd pick Nash over Barkley due to making other players better. It didn't matter what team was around him (short of the Terry Porter incident), he always found a way. And he's a great dude with regards to how we see him. Hard not to like him

[letsgosuns]

He didn't sign with the Lakers, the Suns traded him to the Lakers and ripped them off in the process. He's a Sun, he helped us rip off the lakers, he barely played there. The Suns should have traded him 2 years earlier when the contending window was closed.


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Nash was an unrestricted free agent. He was signed and traded to the Lakers because the Lakers did not have the cap space to sign him outright. If they did, he would have just signed with them without a sign and trade. He was absorbed into the trade exception they had. He also asked Robert Sarver to make it happen. I remember watching Sarver talk about it when it happened. Sarver said his first reaction was no. Then he said his second reaction was HELL NO. But Nash and his agent asked him to do it so Sarver obliged.

The point is that he chose to sign with the Lakers over any other team. His reasoning was that he would be close to his kids while still having the chance to play for a championship. NY was too far away from his kids supposedly. It also did not hurt that the Lakers gave him a really competitive offer of 3 years, 27 million dollars.

This was the quote that made me so disappointed he signed with the Lakers: ["The truth is I'm a bit old school," Nash said in the June 25 interview. "For me, it would be hard to put on a Lakers jersey. That's just the way it is. You play against them so many times in the playoffs, and I just use them as an example, and I have the utmost respect for them and their organization.] http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8130840/steve-nash-headed-los-angeles-lakers-sign-trade-deal

I don't see how you can blame any player for something like that. In the end Steve Nash helped us rip off the Lakers, he was done. Suns were not going to bring him back, they maximized their asset as they should have done two years earlier. Steve Nash wanted to stay close to his kids. In today's world superstars in all sports leave their primary team at the very end all the time, because they think they can still play when they are in fact over the hill. Nash did The same thing as Emmitt Smith, emmitt is still a cowboy through and through, Steve is still a Sun through and through.



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Again you keep saying they maximized their asset and ripped off the Lakers. First off, they did not trade Nash as if he was in the last year of his contract or something and cash out before they lost him for nothing. It was just a coincidence that they worked out a sign and trade with the Lakers to appease Nash. Like I mentioned, if the Lakers had cap space, the Suns would have lost Nash for nothing. Or if Nash signed with another team that had cap space, the Suns would have lost him for nothing. It was only because the Lakers had no cap space and wanted Nash so much that they were willing to overpay the Suns for Sarver to agree to send arguably the most loved Suns player ever to the team's most hated rival. That is why the Suns got draft picks. There is a big difference between trading a player before he becomes a free agent and maximizing his value versus getting lucky that the team the player wants to go is forced into a sign and trade.

LaMarcus Aldridge is a perfect example. If he signed with the Suns, it would have had to be a sign and trade and the Suns would have traded Markieff Morris to the Blazers in order to sign Aldridge. However, Aldridge obviously signed with the Spurs who had the clear cap space for him and the Blazers lost him for nothing. So by the logic you are presenting, if the Suns got Aldridge and traded Markieff to the Blazers for him, would you say that the Blazers maximized their asset or did they just get lucky that the team Aldridge wanted to play for was forced into a sign and trade? Because that is exactly what happened with Nash. The Suns got lucky the team he wanted to play for did not have the cap space to sign him outright and were forced into facilitating a sign and trade for him.

Secondly, Nash had a serious injury at the beginning of his Lakers contract that destroyed his career. He never recovered from it. Nash did not go to the Lakers and play horribly. He went to the Lakers and broke his leg during the second regular season game of his first year with the team. It was over then. That is why people look back and say what a bad sign and trade for the Lakers. It was because of the injury. It was not because of the money or lost draft picks. Also I never said I blamed Nash. I just was disappointed he went to ride the coattails of Kobe, which is exactly what he did. If anybody thinks they foresaw Nash getting a serious injury and barely playing for the Lakers thus believing he helped "rip off" the Lakers, they are kidding themselves.

[RunDogGun]

Wolves are taking a page out of our playbook? They sign Nick Wiggins to camp deal.

[ryanball]

I just was disappointed he went to ride the coattails of Kobe, which is exactly what he did. If anybody thinks they foresaw Nash getting a serious injury and barely playing for the Lakers thus believing he helped "rip off" the Lakers, they are kidding themselves.

Seems a bit harsh. The Lakers were not a powerhouse team, and Bryant didn't really have any coattails for anyone ride at that point in his career. Nash was 38 I think when he went to the Lakers? Nobody foresaw it, but Its not surprising when guys in their late 30's get injured. Even if they remained relatively healthy its not like that roster was destined to go deep in the playoffs.

If Nash wanted to get carried to a ring he would not have gone to the Lakers. So the idea that he went there to be close to his kids and to get the most money seems reasonable and I can't find fault in that. The guy played his best basketball by far for the Suns and that's what matters for me.

[Stix]

I just was disappointed he went to ride the coattails of Kobe, which is exactly what he did. If anybody thinks they foresaw Nash getting a serious injury and barely playing for the Lakers thus believing he helped "rip off" the Lakers, they are kidding themselves.

Seems a bit harsh. The Lakers were not a powerhouse team, and Bryant didn't really have any coattails for anyone ride at that point in his career. Nash was 38 I think when he went to the Lakers? Nobody foresaw it, but Its not surprising when guys in their late 30's get injured. Even if they remained relatively healthy its not like that roster was destined to go deep in the playoffs.

If Nash wanted to get carried to a ring he would not have gone to the Lakers. So the idea that he went there to be close to his kids and to get the most money seems reasonable and I can't find fault in that. The guy played his best basketball by far for the Suns and that's what matters for me.

Actually, the Lakers were going to be a "power house" at the time. They had Nash-Kobe-Artest-Pau-Dwight. It just didn't pan out for them because of injuries and Dwight being Dwight.

Nash almost signed with the Knicks until he got a call from the Lake-show.

[kennydorglas]

I was really mad when Nash asked to go to LA.
But after the really good job he did there, I could forgive him for this disgra

[Jarlaxle0204]

Wolves are taking a page out of our playbook? They sign Nick Wiggins to camp deal.

Hopefully Wiggins pulls a Dragic and demands a trade along with his brother by midseason.

Actually, the Lakers were going to be a "power house" at the time. They had Nash-Kobe-Artest-Pau-Dwight. It just didn't pan out for them because of injuries and Dwight being Dwight.

Nash almost signed with the Knicks until he got a call from the Lake-show.

I don't think Dwight signed on with the Lakers until after Nash had already went there.

[franksredhot]

1 on 1 with the weems

my bad if already posted.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0vwpVnEMV8[/youtube]


esposito is so fukin lame...

[TeamTragic]

1 on 1 with the weems

my bad if already posted.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0vwpVnEMV8[/youtube]


esposito is so fukin lame...

Excited to see him on the court

[JohnWall2]

How any Suns fan could hate or dislike Nash is beyond me. He gave the team everything he literally had, he never really wanted to leave but who can begrudge him for wanting to try win a title on a contender or being closer to his family

The NBA is a business, I really don't give a toss whether he went to LA or Toronto in all honesty because I know when he was with the Suns, he gave it his all. Whether he was playing through busted noses or eyes to will his team to victory in big games or always putting his body on the line, taking charges as an old man with back problems, how can anyone say he's dead to them or anything of the sort?

A lot of people commend Kobe on his will to win and doing anything it takes, well he has openly said he avoids taking charges because of the health issues associated with it....Nash was older and already had a busted back yet was still willing to do it and it didn't matter if it was the WCF or a reg season game against the Charlotte Bobcats.

Who cares if he's working for the Warriors, I think he can make an impact there and good on him, he has earned the respect of an entire Suns fan base, sad he doesn't have the respect of everyone.

Thanks Steve Nash, you're a legend.

[plonden]

Seems a bit harsh. The Lakers were not a powerhouse team, and Bryant didn't really have any coattails for anyone ride at that point in his career. Nash was 38 I think when he went to the Lakers? Nobody foresaw it, but Its not surprising when guys in their late 30's get injured. Even if they remained relatively healthy its not like that roster was destined to go deep in the playoffs.

If Nash wanted to get carried to a ring he would not have gone to the Lakers. So the idea that he went there to be close to his kids and to get the most money seems reasonable and I can't find fault in that. The guy played his best basketball by far for the Suns and that's what matters for me.

Go back and read the media coverage of that Lakers squad before that season. They were talked about as a serious title contender (example: before the season began Bill Simmons predicted that the Heat would beat the Lakers in the Finals). No one foresaw Nash's breakdown--except perhaps the Suns training staff, as they would no longer be able to give him access to the fountain of youth. The exact seriousness of Dwight's back injury and offseason surgery had not yet been publicized. Even though the core players were at the tail end of their career, you had one of the top point guards in the league for the previous eight years, you have one of the top wing scorers of all time and first ballot hall of famer, and a previously dominant defensive center. Add the right mix of coaching and complimentary role players and you have a legitimate title contender. Provided you stay healthy and develop chemistry, neither of which occurred. Nash though he could have his cake and eat it too (live in LA and chase a ring), and it seemed accurate at the time. But it just didn't play out that way.

[asudevil]

All this Nash hate is kinda ridiculous. There have been many, many, many players that have screwed the suns over much more than Nash did. And surprisingly, Nash had the Sun's in mind when he left, which other greats that have played for us didnt. Nash netted us 2x first and 2x seconds, when he really didnt have to. While others (such as McDyess, Amare, Barkley) didnt. IMO McDyess takes the cake for the hate, while Amare/Barkley come in a close second/third.

Nash/Amare/Barkley all left for the same reason ultimately....a championship. Something each time, the suns could not offer. Nash left at the end of our run. Amare left for a chance at big guaranteed money and Melo, while Barkley left for an old-timer chance at a ring with Hakeem/Drexler. And Nash, his last and best chance at a championship was unfortunately with Kobe/Dwight.

We were gifted draft picks because of Nash. He didnt leave our franchise with hate for us. We hated him. He did nothing wrong, except for going to a team that we hate. the rest of these guys crewed us royally while either chasing money, forcing their way out, or bailing after giving up the world to get them.

Nash leaving us ultimately left me with a smile though. Not because Nash fell apart (that's just sad), but his departure screwed up the Lakers for a few years. They had the highest of hopes that offseason, and for those fans it all came crashing down.

Nash ASKED Sarver to leave for the Lakers. Nash pleaded for a chance at a championship, something that we couldnt offer. Nash gave us draft picks, and we at the time gave him (what we thought) a chance at a ring. It was a win-win, and even still there are people who are blind to that.

[tgtm_24]

Nash is a freak and deserves all the love he should be getting and more.

[NavLDO]

Personally, I'll always love Nash. Probably my favorite player ever followed by Barkley and KJ. Those teams were the most fun teams I've ever watched. Nash always left it all on the floor. By the time he left us, he was pretty much done. Most had wanted him to leave years prior. I don't blame Nash (although it was upsetting initially seeing him going to the Lakers). Now I thank him. He often mentions in interviews his love for the team and says that playing in Phoenix were some of the best times of his life. You think he would have done the video at all if he didn't feel some sort of ties to the team?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I'll always be in the pro Steve Nash camp. Looking forward to his ROH induction and eventual HOF induction.

Yeah, I'm not getting all the hate. It's not as if Nash left when he was in the prime of his years-he was pretty much spent by then, so it's not as if he reached greatness, then said 'naw, this town is too small for me, I need a real city' He was already on the decline, and the Suns received 2 draft picks in the deal...what's not to like?

And what if Sir Charles brought us that championship in '93, would you all feel Barkley wasn't a true Sun because he started in Philly and finished in Hou? And for those who feel that way about Nash, and presumably, Barkley, please don't respond by saying that was a 'team effort' or that Barkley wasn't even the greatest player on that team, because we all know differently--he was the MVP for crying out loud--had we won that year, it would've been on his back. As much as I love KJ, he was not the #1 on that team, nor Majarle.

I'm not saying those that feel that way about Nash don't deserve to feel the way you do, I'm just honestly curious how you would feel had Nash brought us a Championship in '05 or '06, or about Barkley in '93? I'm sorry, but you can't expect NBA players to spend their entire career in one city--even KJ played a half season in Cleveland. Is only Alvan Adams and KJ worthy of our admiration over Majerle, Hornacek, West, etc., because they all played somewhere else during their career after Phoenix? and especially in this day and age, that's not likely to happen very often. And yes, even if one 'chooses' to leave Phoenix, they are still a 'Sun' in my book if they spend more than a couple of years with the team.

So no, I don't necessarily look back at Shaq's career and think to myself, what a great, historic Phoenix Sun. But do you think Laker fans don't consider Shaq a Laker because he player a season and a half for us late I his career? IDK, maybe, but I doubt Laker fans hold any ill-will toward Shaq for playing in Phoenix.

[bwgood77]

Everyone keeps mentioning how they don't get all the hate, but I don't see a bunch of hate. I just see a bunch of people saying they don't get all the hate. I mean, we know how Burning Heart feels, but he hasn't been around in a while. Other than that, where is all this hate you all speak of? I think one person said he's dead to them.

[Cutter]

Honestly, when Nash was with the Suns I thought the world of him. This team was entirely built around his ability to distribute, and his shooting was arguably the best the league has ever seen.

However, once he was traded to the Lakers I quickly (and surprisingly) moved on. I had a short mourning period after he left, but then I really wanted to see him fall on his face with the Lakers. Because I dislike the Lakers so much, I want to see anyone associated with them fail. When Nash got hurt right after joining the Lakers, I felt smug like my master plan was somehow coming together. When Dwight Howard trash talked his way out of LA I cheered. And when Kobe blew out his Achilles heel I knew right then that the Lakers were imploding, and Nash was helping them hit the bottom of the barrel.

tl:dr Loved Nash like a god when he was here, quickly moved on when he left.

[TeamTragic]

I'm not sure why we are talking about Nash. We didn't want to give him another contract for legitimate reasons. After it was clear we could not accommodate his contract request he wanted to be traded. Sarver didn't want to send him to the LAL however those multiple picks helped this team rebuild. After that it really doesn't matter because he was gone and now retired.

Nash working with the Warriors organization makes sense because him and Kerr are friends. He is not part of this franchise anymore and never will be even on the coaching/player development side. Case closed.