Q. What is the Impact of not having a D-League Team Option for the Wizards?

[closg00]

Question to the board. What will the impact be of not having a D-League team (and no affiliate team)? We never used our affliate team very much, but we did send Glenn Rice Jr there, and many years ago, John Ramos. ...not much activity in-between. What will do with KO and future draft picks between now and 2018/19 when we "may" have a team? My understanding is that we are one of 4 teams w/o any D-League option.

Merge if required, I thought it was worthy of a bit of discussion on it's own.

[TheSecretWeapon]

To me, it's something that contributes to devaluing assets like 2nd round picks. It also limits the team's opportunities to pursue young players with ability, but need work. They've shared teams with other franchises in the past, but it's time for them to get one of their own.

[gtn130]

Morey has used the Houston D-League team as a science experiment where he tests his math based basketball strategies. The problem with the Wizards is our GM has no theories and is mostly just a bumbling idiot, so to answer your question the answer is nothing. There would be no impact.

[Sluggerface]

Until D-league salaries can match what they're offering overseas, there's no benefit to be gained from having a D-league team. It's a joke league.

[closg00]

Until D-league salaries can match what they're offering overseas, there's no benefit to be gained from having a D-league team. It's a joke league.

If there is no benfit to be gained by having a D-League team, why is there movement for every team to acquire its own team. Why did Ted say that a D League team playing at the St. Elizabeths facility is in his future plans?

[Sluggerface]

Until D-league salaries can match what they're offering overseas, there's no benefit to be gained from having a D-league team. It's a joke league.

If there is no benfit to be gained by having a D-League team, why is there movement for every team to acquire its own team. Why did Ted say that a D League team playing at the St. Elizabeths facility is in his future plans?

"Movement from every team"

Hop off that s***. 11 teams don't have a D-league team. That's more than a third of the league. All Ted is interested about in regards to a D-league team is building up the area.

You've been pumping this D-league stuff for a while now, and you couldn't be more wrong on the subject.

Until the D-league can match the average salary of an overseas player, it will continue to be a league filled with glorified pro-am players who don't want to get a job. You don't learn how to be a better basketball player by destroying competition that isn't even remotely on your level.

[gtn130]

Until D-league salaries can match what they're offering overseas, there's no benefit to be gained from having a D-league team. It's a joke league.

Wrong. There is quite a bit of value in having a D-league team. For starters, you can send your own players there.

[Ruzious]

Until D-league salaries can match what they're offering overseas, there's no benefit to be gained from having a D-league team. It's a joke league.

Wrong. There is quite a bit of value in having a D-league team. For starters, you can send your own players there.

And control how they're coached and developed. If you want a PF to develop a 3 point shot, it's the perfect opportunity - something San Antonio has actually done.

[Sluggerface]

Wrong. There is quite a bit of value in having a D-league team. For starters, you can send your own players there.

What is the value in this? You're eating up a roster spot, and salary, that is picking up DNP's by playing in another league.

And control how they're coached and developed. If you want a PF to develop a 3 point shot, it's the perfect opportunity - something San Antonio has actually done.

The only thing a player learns by actually playing games is game experience, i.e. instincts and decision making, which is worth salt in the D-league. Seriously, I swear none of you have actually sat down and watched D-league games for an extended period of time. Try watching an entire season of it. Guys will bring the ball up and some no name guy who was an all AA player for your run of the mill poly-technical institute will jack up a three TWO SECONDS INTO THE SHOT CLOCK. Rotations aren't even concrete either. One minute you'll be watching a lineup that at least makes some sense, and two minutes later you're watching a lineup that makes approximately zero sense.

If a player wants to develop a three point shot, they develop it in the gym by watching tape of their own shot and practicing it RELIGIOUSLY. These are mechanical skills that can only be learned and refined through extensive and methodical practice. I'll take a guy sitting on the bench and developing decision making in practice against dudes that are actually good enough to be in the league VS. sending that guy to the D-league six ways from Sunday.

I wanted to give the D-league a chance, I really did. I was a huge proponent of it in the past, but after investing time in following euro ball this past season, there's just no contest. If you can't afford to send a prospect to go develop overseas, then just keep him.

[gtn130]

What is the value in this?

A lot of the things you're alluding to in your other post in the D-league are going to change -- especially the hero ball. This season will be the first where all the D-league teams are owned by NBA teams, so they'll have actual mandates for how to play, with goals that extend beyond individual achievement. The teams without any NBA affiliations were just a collection of random dudes trying to impress. I agree with that assessment you made, but it won't be the case anymore.

Additionally, creative GMs have already gotten a lot of value out of having a DL team. From this Grantland article:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/trio-grande-valley-daryl-moreys-d-league-plan-to-do-away-with-midrange-shots/

This is exactly what Morey’s D-League team does. The Rio Grande Valley Vipers (profiled by Jason Schwartz on Grantland this week) are the most fascinating ongoing experiment in basketball right now because they have constructed an offensive strategy around shooting only 3s and close-range shots. They shun the midrange as if it were illegal to shoot from there.

So far this season, the Vipers have attempted more than 3,200 shots. A staggering 92 percent of these shots come from either beyond the arc or within eight feet.

Their favorite shots are inspired by the analytical notion that midrange shots are the worst investments on the floor and therefore they should be avoided in favor of the smarter options close to the rim and beyond the arc.

When you compare the overall shot signature of the Vipers with that of the NBA, the differences are clear. The Vipers have essentially replaced all of their “lost” midrange activity with more attempts from beyond the arc; a staggering 47 percent of their shots are 3-pointers. They are also slightly more active near the basket, but the real difference is in the jumpers.

So far, the strategy has worked. The Vipers lead the D-League in offensive efficiency and have the best record. Without a doubt, these are impressive results, but they raise a couple questions:

1. Is this smart basketball?

2. Can this work in the NBA?

It's not coincidental that the Rockets play a pretty similar but less extreme version of basketball that the DL affiliate play. Morey has used the team to experiment and try strategies he wouldn't be able to in an NBA game (because winning matters).

So, yeah, I think you can see that having a DL team serves a bunch of purposes and it's not difficult for an NBA team to find value in having one.

[Ruzious]

And if you control a D League team, you control the coaches!

[payitforward]

The minor leagues are extremely valuable to MLB; no one would claim the D League has been or ever could be that valuable to the NBA. But, surely it could be more valuable to NBA teams than it has been!

Is that enough reason for Ted (and other owners, and the NBA itself) to be getting serious about expanding the D League? No. No way.

So why is Ted going to start a D League franchise? Entrepreneurs start businesses because they see opportunities to provide a product people will want to pay for. I.e. to satisfy a need. Or, if you prefer to put it this way, to make money.

In this case, if you own an NBA franchise, you have most of the infrastructure and know-how in place to expand your pro basketball offerings. It'll be interesting to follow this phenomenon. If succeeds, I bet it'll lead to a R3 being added to the draft.

[closg00]

Until D-league salaries can match what they're offering overseas, there's no benefit to be gained from having a D-league team. It's a joke league.

If there is no benfit to be gained by having a D-League team, why is there movement for every team to acquire its own team. Why did Ted say that a D League team playing at the St. Elizabeths facility is in his future plans?

"Movement from every team"

Hop off that s***. 11 teams don't have a D-league team. That's more than a third of the league. All Ted is interested about in regards to a D-league team is building up the area.

You've been pumping this D-league stuff for a while now, and you couldn't be more wrong on the subject.

Until the D-league can match the average salary of an overseas player, it will continue to be a league filled with glorified pro-am players who don't want to get a job. You don't learn how to be a better basketball player by destroying competition that isn't even remotely on your level.

You are spitting into the wind Slugger, you were wrong about the NBDL then and you demonstrably wrong now.

There are 19 teams in the NBDL representing over 60% of the NBA. All of the teams are single affiliation. Of the remaining 11 NBA teams, 6 (to-date) have publicly declared their intention to pursue their own NBDL team - BRK, ATL, NOP, CHA, LAC, & WIZ. So that's 25 of 30 teams including our own, that is unequivocally a movement when you consider most teams were sharing just a few years ago.

As to the rest of your points, you don't appear to have been following how the NBDL has been successfully used by Houston, SA, OKC, and why the other teams are falling like dominoes trying to imitate their model.

The trajectory of the NBA and its use of the NBDL, is a 3rd round in the draft and more money for the players.
This could mean fewer players going overseas, and a better talent pool all-round hopefully.



~When your FO is unanimous on drafting Jan Vesely, you know you gotta clean-house~

[Sluggerface]

A lot of the things you're alluding to in your other post in the D-league are going to change -- especially the hero ball. This season will be the first where all the D-league teams are owned by NBA teams, so they'll have actual mandates for how to play, with goals that extend beyond individual achievement. The teams without any NBA affiliations were just a collection of random dudes trying to impress. I agree with that assessment you made, but it won't be the case anymore.

Additionally, creative GMs have already gotten a lot of value out of having a DL team. From this Grantland article:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/trio-grande-valley-daryl-moreys-d-league-plan-to-do-away-with-midrange-shots/

This is exactly what Morey’s D-League team does. The Rio Grande Valley Vipers (profiled by Jason Schwartz on Grantland this week) are the most fascinating ongoing experiment in basketball right now because they have constructed an offensive strategy around shooting only 3s and close-range shots. They shun the midrange as if it were illegal to shoot from there.

So far this season, the Vipers have attempted more than 3,200 shots. A staggering 92 percent of these shots come from either beyond the arc or within eight feet.

Their favorite shots are inspired by the analytical notion that midrange shots are the worst investments on the floor and therefore they should be avoided in favor of the smarter options close to the rim and beyond the arc.

When you compare the overall shot signature of the Vipers with that of the NBA, the differences are clear. The Vipers have essentially replaced all of their “lost” midrange activity with more attempts from beyond the arc; a staggering 47 percent of their shots are 3-pointers. They are also slightly more active near the basket, but the real difference is in the jumpers.

So far, the strategy has worked. The Vipers lead the D-League in offensive efficiency and have the best record. Without a doubt, these are impressive results, but they raise a couple questions:

1. Is this smart basketball?

2. Can this work in the NBA?

It's not coincidental that the Rockets play a pretty similar but less extreme version of basketball that the DL affiliate play. Morey has used the team to experiment and try strategies he wouldn't be able to in an NBA game (because winning matters).

So, yeah, I think you can see that having a DL team serves a bunch of purposes and it's not difficult for an NBA team to find value in having one.

Literally all of that could have been done in a simulation. The backbone of that probably WAS done in a simulation. Once again, how does this allude to actually developing a player? It's the same thing Ted did with the analytics scrimmage. It's just a way to see how the game would be played.

EDIT: I understand the D-league is trying to make changes, but it has a long way to go. Team's shouldn't be penalized for using up roster space on a D-league player. The salary's need to be competitive so players don't just bolt overseas. Stability is the number one problem in the D-league as it currently stands.

As to the rest of your points, you don't appear to have been following how the NBDL has been successfully used by Houston, SA, OKC, and why the other teams are falling like dominoes trying to imitate their model.

I literally almost spit up my coffee here. Adding sensationalist bias to your point doesn't further validate it. Players can't develop by playing against inferior competition. This is because, as a competitor, your frame of mind, everything you do, every decision you make on the court, is warped by the talent around you. Would you expect a guy to develop into an NBA caliber player just by playing pickup games at the local YMCA? No, you wouldn't. This is the same argument you guys bring up every year when Summer League rolls around, instantly invalidating it. THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SUMMER LEAGUE AND D-LEAGUE. The gap in talent between the NBA and D-league is astronomical. You guys keep bringing up D-league success stories but you're not actually attempting to argue any relevant points of how or why the D-league is successful.

[Ruzious]

Slugg - it's the same basis used for the baseball model of minor leagues.

[closg00]

Slugg - Imagine the Wizards with their own NBDL team, with their own coaches, coaching our system to rookies in real games. This is the model, this is what teams have been doing. This what we will be doing eventually.


~When your FO is unanimous on drafting Jan Vesely, you know you gotta clean-house~

[Sluggerface]

Slugg - it's the same basis used for the baseball model of minor leagues.

Comparing a borderline individual sport to something with infinitely more moving pieces.

Slugg - Imagine the Wizards with their own NBDL team, with their own coaches, coaching our system to rookies in real games. This is the model, this is what teams have been doing. This what we will be doing eventually.

Still doesn't solve the talent discrepancy, which you can't have if you actually want to develop a player. Rookies should have the system down by the end of training camp install. NBA playbooks aren't that complicated. Once again, this is just another mechanical thing that one can do in individual practice. Even if someone learns the system in the D-league, it doesn't prepare him for the individual player tendencies of the actual roster which is more important than the system itself.

[gtn130]

Comparing a borderline individual sport to something with infinitely more moving pieces.

Seems like this works against your argument.

Baseball is definitely an individual sport, so wouldn't that reduce need for minor league games? Since basketball is much more of a fluid team game, wouldn't having real game experience playing with teammates be much more valuable than working on fundamentals in practice?

[closg00]

This article is worth reading, note the chart at the bottom.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25304450/how-the-d-league-may-shape-the-future-of-basketball

Slugger, the NBA is moving-on without you.

[Sluggerface]

This article is worth reading, note the chart at the bottom.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25304450/how-the-d-league-may-shape-the-future-of-basketball

Slugger, the NBA is moving-on without you.

Are you really going to sit here and act like the D-league is a major reason why the Texas teams, or an OKC is successful. You do realize you're talking about teams that collectively have more than a bakers dozen of future hall of famers right? All of which spent zero minutes in the D-league, half of which consist of international players that came to the NBA from other professional leagues. You do realize this, yes?

Once again you linked me an article that doesn't address the argument I brought up to you

You guys keep bringing up D-league success stories but you're not actually attempting to argue any relevant points of how or why the D-league is successful.

All of the points brought up so far, some of which Moore alluded to. I.E. installing team systems, should be done by training camp. You need to come up with a stronger correlation if you're going to make a convincing argument that the D-league actually does a better job of developing players than Europe.

Moore even brings up the entire crux of my argument.

There's also a domino effect here. As Aldridge says, adding more players to the draft has to be bargained with the players. You can bet that they will demand a better pay structure than what the D-League currently affords. The A-level players in the D-League make $25,000. That number will rise if the players bargain for it, and if the league decides to get serious about keeping the players it drafts and assigns in-house. (Many players, even those whose NBA rights are owned by the parent club, choose to sign in Europe for better money.)

What's the effect of raising salaries? It opens the door significantly to players signing with the D-League out of high school. If you can make a decent living focusing on basketball, that's going to change a lot of young men's minds. We've seen some players already skip high school for the D-League, and this could provide opportunities for players whose families need the money now, vs. a scholarship from a D-1 school.

You act like I'm completely against the D-league. If you could convince one and done's and good players from Europe to come back to the D-league, you're talking about something completely different. You're talking about a real league. That's something I could get behind. As it stands right now, that hasn't happened yet. You're talking about a potential league. I'm talking about how the league is right now