Pre-game Thread: 49ers @ Cardinals wk 3

Post #1 » by **CalamityX12** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:47 pm

49ers coming off an embarrassing loss

Cardinals coming off a lopsided win

Post #2 » by **CalamityX12** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:48 pm

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/cardinals-ready-kaepernick-scramble-third-downs

Jefferson said the Cardinals believe Kaepernick is quick to shift into running mode on third downs and he's is more adept at throwing passes in the middle of the field

Not saying I noticed the throwing in the middle part but if fans can pick up the blatant tendencies, how do opposing defenses can't? well they do.

Post #3 » by **MHSL82** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:15 pm

CalamityX12 wrote:http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/cardinals-ready-kaepernick-scramble-third-downs

Jefferson said the Cardinals believe Kaepernick is quick to shift into running mode on third downs and he's is more adept at throwing passes in the middle of the field

Not saying I noticed the throwing in the middle part but if fans can pick up the blatant tendencies, how do opposing defenses can't? well they do.

I feel most QBs are more adept at throwing in the middle of the field. The knock on a lot of QBs is throwing outside the hashmarks, something I saw a lot early on with Kaepernick and not as much since. Maybe defenses assumed at the beginning he wasn't going to try the harder sideline throws and then he took advantage. After film, those are defended more and the middle is more open. I don't know.

Post #4 » by **CalamityX12** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:33 pm

MHSL82 wrote:
CalamityX12 wrote:http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/cardinals-ready-kaepernick-scramble-third-downs

Jefferson said the Cardinals believe Kaepernick is quick to shift into running mode on third downs and he's is more adept at throwing passes in the middle of the field

Not saying I noticed the throwing in the middle part but if fans can pick up the blatant tendencies, how do opposing defenses can't? well they do.

I feel most QBs are more adept at throwing in the middle of the field. The knock on a lot of QBs is throwing outside the hashmarks, something I saw a lot early on with Kaepernick and not as much since. Maybe defenses assumed at the beginning he wasn't going to try the harder sideline throws and then he took advantage. After film, those are defended more and the middle is more open. I don't know.

I understand the middle is an option, as always, but it tells me where's Kap's eyes are frequently targeting which is what I see a lot from my tv. He does not look at the dump offs or sides at all. He's a one read guy on film.

Now this season is still young and maybe that will change, however if our coaches can't change that habit or find a way to counter it if they think thats' what the opposing defenses are looking for, that's another slap to our staff's gameplanning.

49rangER · Post #5 » by **49rangER** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:58 pm

I will be in attendance for this one...here is to hoping they don't repeat last weeks game.

Any word on Iupati? Some word out here that he really want to play. Limited practice last week i believe.

Pattersonca65 · Post #6 » by **Pattersonca65** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:29 pm

What this game is going to come down to is winning in the trenches. Arizona likes to try and bring pressure. They are aggressive like the 49ers have been trying to play and will blitz alot. If the oline falters and allows blitzing defenders a free shot at the QB, we aren't going to win. The 49ers also have to do a much better job getting pressure on the QB than they did last week. If the D allows Palmer to sit in the pocket and make plays without pressure it is going to be another long day.

Post #7 » by **Ray_Dogg** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:27 pm

49rangER wrote:I will be in attendance for this one...here is to hoping they don't repeat last weeks game.

Any word on Iupati? Some word out here that he really want to play. Limited practice last week i believe.

Sounds like Big Mike is on track to start if he doesn't have any setbacks.

Post #8 » by **CalamityX12** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:33 pm

Pattersonca65 wrote:What this game is going to come down to is winning in the trenches. Arizona likes to try and bring pressure. They are aggressive like the 49ers have been trying to play and will blitz alot. If the oline falters and allows blitzing defenders a free shot at the QB, we aren't going to win. The 49ers also have to do a much better job getting pressure on the QB than they did last week. If the D allows Palmer to sit in the pocket and make plays without pressure it is going to be another long day.

This is where a gameplan or preparation can show itself. IF the niners coaching staff sees this and does not inflate their own OL ability to block, shouldn't there be counters with quick dump offs or quick slants to the WR who has the biggest space?

Screens obviously is out of play here :banghead:

Pattersonca65 · Post #9 » by **Pattersonca65** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:14 pm

CalamityX12 wrote:
Pattersonca65 wrote:What this game is going to come down to is winning in the trenches. Arizona likes to try and bring pressure. They are aggressive like the 49ers have been trying to play and will blitz alot. If the oline falters and allows blitzing defenders a free shot at the QB, we aren't going to win. The 49ers also have to do a much better job getting pressure on the QB than they did last week. If the D allows Palmer to sit in the pocket and make plays without pressure it is going to be another long day.

This is where a gameplan or preparation can show itself. IF the niners coaching staff sees this and does not inflate their own OL ability to block, shouldn't there be counters with quick dump offs or quick slants to the WR who has the biggest space?

Screens obviously is out of play here

Yes. Among other things. Arizona was aggressive against Seatlle last year in the NFCCG and RW made them pay for it. RW got away from the pocket, escaped the pressure and made some big gains

Tomikcon1971 · Post #10 » by **Tomikcon1971** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:32 pm

I heard a stat that seems insane. In the last 19 games with Palmer at QB the Cards are like 17-2. If that's true, it's pretty impressive. The Cards are good but didn't seem to be "that good". I think with all the injuries in his career and contract stuff in Cincy, Palmer doesn't seem to get the credit he deserves as a very good QB

I_am_1z · Post #11 » by **I_am_1z** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:55 pm

Are people more worried for the offense or defense in this game?

I think the defense will redeem itself, the players are saying all the right things. This game wasn't as much of a blowout as it seemed, so I'm glad to see we weren't blowing this game out of portion.

Post #12 » by **CalamityX12** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:13 pm

IF Mangenius n Co realize maybe our safeties aren't fast enough to disguise a blitz n run back up top, I think we'll be fine.... I can pray.

Tomikcon1971 · Post #13 » by **Tomikcon1971** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:48 pm

You can analyze this 1000 different ways but it's real easy in my opinion...our defense has been getting worse since 2011 in terms of scoring defense. Our offense has been getting worse the last two years. For us to have any chance at competing for a wildcard spot our offense will have to score significantly more on a regular basis than we have in the last couple of years. Our D is not as vicious or suffocating. It's a capable defense and should get better as the year goes along but it's not an above average defense right now. Off the top of my head need to be more like the Saints of recent years (when they were competing). Be able to score when you D bends from time to time......We need to be able to win alot of 28-24 games and occasionally 35-28 or 31-28 ones.

Year......OFF PPG......DEF PPG......W/L
2011.........23.8...........14.3........13-3
2012.........24.8...........17.1........11-4-1
2013.........25.4...........17.0........12-4
2014.........19.1...........21.3.........8-8
2015*........19.0...........23.0..........1-1

*two games

You tell me where this is headed? Looks like less than 8-8 unless we get our offensive scoring average up into the mid-20's at a minimum. We are going to be in the 23-25 PPG allowed best case in my opinion when the year ends, so we need a consistent and solid offensive output.

I really think it's that simple....

Post #14 » by **CalamityX12** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:16 pm

we definitely need a solid defensive output...

its unfortunate IMO that we won't see that unless things start clicking sooner than later. There's no push from the DL, pass rushing talent is a bit average and we no longer have two top 5/7 ILBs in the game...

its a falloff this year.

49rangER · Post #15 » by **49rangER** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:49 pm

Everyone over here in AZ thinks they are going to throttle us and throw up 30+ points while keeping us to below 20.

While the cardinals fans have a lot to be happy about from the first 2 weeks...its still only just 2 weeks. Don forget that the 2 teams who they beat are the Saints and bears who could be vying for the draft picks in the top 5 easily.

Carson may be 17-2 as a starter with them but he has never beaten us personally. (one of 3 teams he has yet to) I believe we have only lost once against them in the last 2-3 years. Kap being 4-1.

Now stats mean jack as division games are always tough. This stadium does get loud and is becoming one of the harder places to play as the cardinals home record speaks for itself.

With all that said I think people are overlooking us again like week 1. I fully expect a close game with us edging out by 3 on a late field goal.

49rangER · Post #16 » by **49rangER** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:22 pm

Another note here:

Palmer hasnt been sacked yet this year. However there offensive line is still not great as they have let up many pressures and hits. Palmer has been very good at getting the ball out quickly.

They might be getting reinforcement this week as suspended Bobby Massie and iupati might be slotted back in.

Jikkle · Post #17 » by **Jikkle** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:44 pm

Iupati playing will help the pass rush so their should be a lot of interior pressure.

Game is a must win imo if the team expects to be in the mix for a playoff spot and it's a good game to see where they really are at. It's a divisional game with the leader of the division and if they get blown out this game it's going to be a long year because if they can't get motivated and be focused on this game there really isn't much hope for this team this season.

Jikkle · Post #18 » by **Jikkle** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:56 pm

CalamityX12 wrote:
MHSL82 wrote:
CalamityX12 wrote:http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/cardinals-ready-kaepernick-scramble-third-downs

Not saying I noticed the throwing in the middle part but if fans can pick up the blatant tendencies, how do opposing defenses can't? well they do.

I feel most QBs are more adept at throwing in the middle of the field. The knock on a lot of QBs is throwing outside the hashmarks, something I saw a lot early on with Kaepernick and not as much since. Maybe defenses assumed at the beginning he wasn't going to try the harder sideline throws and then he took advantage. After film, those are defended more and the middle is more open. I don't know.

I understand the middle is an option, as always, but it tells me where's Kap's eyes are frequently targeting which is what I see a lot from my tv. He does not look at the dump offs or sides at all. He's a one read guy on film.

Now this season is still young and maybe that will change, however if our coaches can't change that habit or find a way to counter it if they think thats' what the opposing defenses are looking for, that's another slap to our staff's gameplanning.

I don't believe Kap has confidence in his outside throws right as I don't think he's quite married his improved mechanics with the deeper passes outside the hashes. Judging from the various practice reports I've read over camp it seems like he wants to put more arc on the pass but he hasn't found that balance of putting enough power on the throw to get it to the WR and enough air under it so it rainbows right into their hands.

And from the coaching aspect I suspect they want productive downs and want Kap to make high percentage throws to be and 3rd and manageable. It's still an offense that wants to be a run first ball control offense so I think the coaches would rather a 7 yard pass on 2nd down than a long incompletetion that sets up 3rd and long.

zman1 · Post #19 » by **zman1** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:22 pm

Jikkle wrote:And from the coaching aspect I suspect they want productive downs and want Kap to make high percentage throws to be and 3rd and manageable. It's still an offense that wants to be a run first ball control offense so I think the coaches would rather a 7 yard pass on 2nd down than a long incompletetion that sets up 3rd and long.

Wants to be but can it be? Yes, it sure looks like that is the way we want to go as we run first on almost every series. I think we are again making the mistake of giving the defense nothing to fear by not throwing long or even threatening to throw long. If other team in the NFL knows you are going to run, you might wish hope and desire to beat them anyway, but it ain't going to work. My first play this week would be a play action long bomb to Smith, whether he is open or not. Just let them know we can and we will (although I am not sure we will).

Post #20 » by **MHSL82** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:00 pm

zman1 wrote:
Jikkle wrote:And from the coaching aspect I suspect they want productive downs and want Kap to make high percentage throws to be and 3rd and manageable. It's still an offense that wants to be a run first ball control offense so I think the coaches would rather a 7 yard pass on 2nd down than a long incompletetion that sets up 3rd and long.

Wants to be but can it be? Yes, it sure looks like that is the way we want to go as we run first on almost every series. I think we are again making the mistake of giving the defense nothing to fear by not throwing long or even threatening to throw long. If other team in the NFL knows you are going to run, you might wish hope and desire to beat them anyway, but it ain't going to work. My first play this week would be a play action long bomb to Smith, whether he is open or not. Just let them know we can and we will (although I am not sure we will).

As long as we are safe with it. Because if they score 1st and then then we throw an interception to show we're going deep, the game spirals out of control. Or we get a deep sack trying to get there. No reason to be scared to do it, but just throw it where only our guy gets it or nobody.