Dribble-Drive offense

[Kings2013]

STR wrote a great piece about the offense we might start to see more of this coming year

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/9/23/9373389/30q-how-do-the-kings-fit-the-dribble-drive-offense

It's a innovative offense largely untested and different from what the league is used to

After a year-and-half hiatus, George Karl is back on the coaching sidelines. Known as an X's and O's mad scientist, Karl's newfound opportunity gives him a chance to restart the wacky experiment he began in Denver. With his trusty assistant Vance Walberg at his side, Karl once again tries his hand at introducing the NBA to the Dribble-Drive offense.

Besides that Nuggets team, the offense is mostly untested at the NBA level. Walberg had originally created it for his high school teams

With all due respect to coach Malone and what we were doing at the beginning of last year, the offense is going to look a lot different and possibly pleasing to the eye. A lot of our players including Boogie were starting to play some of the ball of their careers under Karl towards the end of last season, and the author believes this type of offense will see the assortment of players we have excel. We shall see.

Edited. Please keep news article quotes to a maximum of three paragraphs. Thank you. -Wolfay

[benchmobbin02]

Without getting to deep into this, I think everything they said in the article is true. The players slot into those positions well and I can see success with for the team in the system. I think it will take time for us to master but once we do there will already be trying team copying our success and teams playing semi zone defense to stop it. I think throwing something new at Rondo is a good thing to keep him mentally challenged and a willing distributor. I don't expect this to be the main offense right away but I can see us running it close to 25-50% by the all-star break once we are truly comfortable with it. Let's get the season started!

[SacKingZZZ]

Last year, near the end of the season Cuz looked really good setting up the offense via the drive so if they use him in that role it will completely invert teams defensively. The only issue will be shooting and their ability to spread the floor. I know people are going to **** bricks if Cousins occupies the 4 position in that offensive set but honestly, he's an ELITE driver/face up big, even his post ups typically end facing the basket. If they ran it 5% of the time in Denver they might even run it less here anyway. The spacing is key and even being a team not loaded with shooters, keeping the middle open with less emphasis on offensive rebounding will make this team much more fluid, or should.

[SacKingZZZ]

Without getting to deep into this, I think everything they said in the article is true. The players slot into those positions well and I can see success with for the team in the system. I think it will take time for us to master but once we do there will already be trying team copying our success and teams playing semi zone defense to stop it. I think throwing something new at Rondo is a good thing to keep him mentally challenged and a willing distributor. I don't expect this to be the main offense right away but I can see us running it close to 25-50% by the all-star break once we are truly comfortable with it. Let's get the season started!

True, but the best thing about this set is probably how simplistic it is. I would think the transition might not be too bad. It's pretty simple as long as guys remember to just freaking space the floor. Plus they have something to build off with last season.

And yeah, we'll see what happens when teams pack the paint. I brought this up when Rondo was signed but he had some pretty interesting data at the corner 3's last year. I don't know if he wants to play there in the role of the 2 or 3 but if he does, he could be a pretty decent threat from those spots. That could also help the spacing rather than having teams daring him to shoot.

[benchmobbin02]

Even the most simple offenses take time to master and learn your teammates abilities and tendencies in the system, to gauge and adjust to and faint defender reactions and to learn all of the counters. Just part of the game. It will take time to MASTER.

Rondo outside shooting matter far less then many put on in this system as he will most likely be manning the one where he will initiate the action and cycle around to handle the ball again if no lanes open up for the wings or bigs.

[Kings2013]

Last year, near the end of the season Cuz looked really good setting up the offense via the drive so if they use him in that role it will completely invert teams defensively. The only issue will be shooting and their ability to spread the floor. I know people are going to **** bricks if Cousins occupies the 4 position in that offensive set but honestly, he's an ELITE driver/face up big, even his post ups typically end facing the basket. If they ran it 5% of the time in Denver they might even run it less here anyway. The spacing is key and even being a team not loaded with shooters, keeping the middle open with less emphasis on offensive rebounding will make this team much more fluid, or should.

Yeah, I'm more concerned with Cuz occupying the 4 on D just the way the league has headed, but judging from reports he is in phenomenal shape

[benchmobbin02]

That has been overblown too. DMC can match up with most of the starting fours in the league and if a team goes small with a small foward type at the position we have a number of ways we can counter, not to mention they will get abused like a punk on the defensive end when DMC muscles them in the paint. I swear KINGS fans act like the coaches and player won't be able to adjust to different lineups because of the perception in the fans head of what our lineup COULD be. It's old, shortsighted and frankly, dumb. We haven't even had a training camp or played a preseason game as a new group yet, smh.

[SacKingZZZ]

You don't want Cuz forced into guarding pick and rolls, it won't be good for him or his team and we have enough evidence of what is looks like when he does. Last year he was a dominant defender at the rim, that's where you want him. Cauley-Stein is the perfect fit for him defensively in theory with his ability to guard pick and roll so the answers are already there.

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear earlier but what I meant was the "4" in the dribble drive set like the diagram showed. Remember the dribble drive doesn't really have set positions and it kind of follows the method of "positionless" basketball they want to follow. The "4" in the dribble drive is typically a spacer and hangs out towards the long distance corner/elbow 3 point line. The article alluded to the fact that Cousins will probably be the "4" man at times in that set which is actually something I totally agree with. That will allow him to drive and dump off to the other big, which is better than him at the rim IMO because he isn't a prolific or quick finisher. I'm sure he'll play some at both places though. If you watched that Kentucky alumni game we may have seen a preview of such a situation with Cuz and Willie. Cuz drove into the rim and just flicked it up in the air to Cauley-Stein for the dunk. Once again the issue is that teams are eventually just going to dare guys to shoot if you have a trio of Rondo/Cuz/Cauley-Stein or Koufos out there. Willie and Koufos being able to spread the floor could be key this season.

[benchmobbin02]

Yeah it's not ideal but it will happen because the other teams jobs is to put themselves in the best position to score points. Regardless of what "position" DMC is playing, he will have to guard pick and rolls sometimes.

It's his job as a player to get better at moving his feet and not fouling and working hard to get quicker in the offseason. It's the coaches job to drill the weak side defenders to react and play team defense IF he is beat on the play. It's Vlade job to bring in other bigs that play the pick and roll well and can provide weakside help and recovery at the basket when DMC is defnding away from the basket. He has done that with WCS and Koufos.

This discussion is somewhat dumb and pointless like I said earlier.

Many teams, but not all, have two bigs that can execute the pick and roll on offense, so who DMC guards is doesn't matter. Not to mention down screens that make defenders switch before the play even starts. He just has to improve that aspect of his game and if he wants to be as the best, like I think he does, then he is working on it. Let's get the season started!

[Kings2013]

That has been overblown too. DMC can match up with most of the starting fours in the league and if a team goes small with a small foward type at the position we have a number of ways we can counter, not to mention they will get abused like a punk on the defensive end when DMC muscles them in the paint. I swear KINGS fans act like the coaches and player won't be able to adjust to different lineups because of the perception in the fans head of what our lineup COULD be. It's old, shortsighted and frankly, dumb. We haven't even had a training camp or played a preseason game as a new group yet, smh.

Please don't disrespect the views of other members, the rest of us are trying to have a civil discussion here

I think the majority of NBA fans and Kings fans would have some degree of question of whether or not a 6'11 270 player who has predominately played center can run around, full court and half court, with some of the agile PFs of today

Whether or not we see it, I don't know. I for one think there is a good chance we see Koufos just because WCS is green and I'm not sure they want to go small full time. We will see in a couple of weeks!

[SacKingZZZ]

Yeah it's not ideal but it will happen because the other teams jobs is to put themselves in the best position to score points. Regardless of what "position" DMC is playing, he will have to guard pick and rolls sometimes.

It's his job as a player to get better at moving his feet and not fouling and working hard to get quicker in the offseason. It's the coaches job to drill the weak side defenders to react and play team defense IF he is beat on the play. It's Vlade job to bring in other bigs that play the pick and roll well and can provide weakside help and recovery at the basket when DMC is defnding away from the basket. He has done that with WCS and Koufos.

This discussion is somewhat dumb and pointless like I said earlier.

Many teams, but not all, have two bigs that can execute the pick and roll on offense, so who DMC guards is doesn't matter. Not to mention down screens that make defenders switch before the play even starts. He just has to improve that aspect of his game and if he wants to be as the best, like I think he does, then he is working on it. Let's get the season started!

You still have to take in account the things they supposedly want to do in regards to defending pick and roll. Also, the number of PF's that can hit pop shots out of it far exceeds those at C. So in reality, it does mean quite a bit as Kings2013 brought up. In the end though it shouldn't matter much if Willie is able to the be the player he can be because the answer lies with him. Koufos is a decent PnR defender too so we'll see.

It will be interesting for sure because on paper this is far from a perfect team for the way they supposedly want to play.

[pickIBL]

Oh guys I thought you were going to just be Grinnell College 2.0. Man have things changed since that beautiful Princeton offense. I feel for you guys, you really should revolt.

[benchmobbin02]

Oh guys I thought you were going to just be Grinnell College 2.0. Man have things changed since that beautiful Princeton offense. I feel for you guys, you really should revolt.

Teams run more then one type of offense. But thanks for the input.

[benchmobbin02]

You still have to take in account the things they supposedly want to do in regards to defending pick and roll. Also, the number of PF's that can hit pop shots out of it far exceeds those at C. So in reality, it does mean quite a bit as Kings2013 brought up. In the end though it shouldn't matter much if Willie is able to the be the player he can be because the answer lies with him. Koufos is a decent PnR defender too so we'll see.

It will be interesting for sure because on paper this is far from a perfect team for the way they supposedly want to play.[/quote]

Yeah, I did take it all into account and still came away with the same reality. That DMC will be playing in the 4 on occasion and the team on all levels is or should be getting prepared to adjust to that. From the make up of the team to the way they help on defense to the lineups the coach plays. Most importantly DMC needs to come in ready to play faster and more agile and with more stamina. Just the next step in his game.

[pickIBL]

Oh guys I thought you were going to just be Grinnell College 2.0. Man have things changed since that beautiful Princeton offense. I feel for you guys, you really should revolt.

Teams run more then one type of offense. But thanks for the input.

The basis of that great Sacramento group was the Princeton. Grinnell anti-basketball, dribble drive, etc just sounds like cobbled together ideas to try based on poor leadership from the very top. I say that not to insult the fan base, but to suggest you deserve better. The dribble drive was developed for a small city college that didn't have dominant back to the basket players. And cherry picking D3 garbage isn't going to get it done either.

The offense should feature Cousins, and the only shot of success involves improved decision making out of the post. If he can read the defense better and limit turnovers that's huge. Name that offense whatever you want. But if he passes out and finds guys for open looks you have something. If he stays over 4 turnovers per game you are already dead in the water.

[benchmobbin02]

Oh guys I thought you were going to just be Grinnell College 2.0. Man have things changed since that beautiful Princeton offense. I feel for you guys, you really should revolt.

Teams run more then one type of offense. But thanks for the input.

The basis of that great Sacramento group was the Princeton. Grinnell anti-basketball, dribble drive, etc just sounds like cobbled together ideas to try based on poor leadership from the very top. I say that not to insult the fan base, but to suggest you deserve better. The dribble drive was developed for a small city college that didn't have dominant back to the basket players. And cherry picking D3 garbage isn't going to get it done either.

The offense should feature Cousins, and the only shot of success involves improved decision making out of the post. If he can read the defense better and limit turnovers that's huge. Name that offense whatever you want. But if he passes out and finds guys for open looks you have something. If he stays over 4 turnovers per game you are already dead in the water.

Haha, well I guess we'll take your word that we only need one offensive set in the NBA since you've lead so many teams to success. GTFOH!

Of course, we would want our All-Star, All NBA player to have the ball in his hands a lot and make good decisions and find open teammates. But we aren't gonna just run iso every trip down the court and expect DMC to do everything. I doesn't work like that. We will run several different types of offense including the Princeton Motion, Early, Zone, Spread and the Dribble Drive. Even teams like the Spurs and GS that are known for a specific type of offense run other sets with other personal.

Why don't you worry about the Jazz point guard situation and their lack of bench depth.

[pickIBL]

Teams run more then one type of offense. But thanks for the input.

The basis of that great Sacramento group was the Princeton. Grinnell anti-basketball, dribble drive, etc just sounds like cobbled together ideas to try based on poor leadership from the very top. I say that not to insult the fan base, but to suggest you deserve better. The dribble drive was developed for a small city college that didn't have dominant back to the basket players. And cherry picking D3 garbage isn't going to get it done either.

The offense should feature Cousins, and the only shot of success involves improved decision making out of the post. If he can read the defense better and limit turnovers that's huge. Name that offense whatever you want. But if he passes out and finds guys for open looks you have something. If he stays over 4 turnovers per game you are already dead in the water.

Haha, well I guess we'll take your word that we only need one offensive set in the NBA since you've lead so many teams to success. GTFOH!

Of course, we would want our All-Star, All NBA player to have the ball in his hands a lot and make good decisions and find open teammates. But we aren't gonna just run iso every trip down the court and expect DMC to do everything. I doesn't work like that. We will run several different types of offense including the Princeton Motion, Early, Zone, Spread and the Dribble Drive. Even teams like the Spurs and GS that are known for a specific type of offense run other sets with other personal.

Why don't you worry about the Jazz point guard situation and their lack of bench depth.

As someone who has sat in the gym in Grinnell, I might be just a little bit more well versed than you think. And I don't mind honest criticism of any team I follow.

[benchmobbin02]

So you're opinion hold weight cuz you got a ticket. Nahh...

dribble drive just sounds like cobbled together ideas to try based on poor leadership from the very top. I say that not to insult the fan base, but to suggest you deserve better.

How is it poor leadership to add layers to the offense that we run? The coaches are evolving and growing the system they started to install at the end of last year. They brought in assistant coaches that know the sets and have training camp to prepare and test it. No matter what system we run, DMC will be the focal point, he has the ball in his hands or just drawing extra attention for the to open the lane. Sounds like good leadership to me.

[SacKingZZZ]

The basis of that great Sacramento group was the Princeton. Grinnell anti-basketball, dribble drive, etc just sounds like cobbled together ideas to try based on poor leadership from the very top. I say that not to insult the fan base, but to suggest you deserve better. The dribble drive was developed for a small city college that didn't have dominant back to the basket players. And cherry picking D3 garbage isn't going to get it done either.

The offense should feature Cousins, and the only shot of success involves improved decision making out of the post. If he can read the defense better and limit turnovers that's huge. Name that offense whatever you want. But if he passes out and finds guys for open looks you have something. If he stays over 4 turnovers per game you are already dead in the water.

Haha, well I guess we'll take your word that we only need one offensive set in the NBA since you've lead so many teams to success. GTFOH!

Of course, we would want our All-Star, All NBA player to have the ball in his hands a lot and make good decisions and find open teammates. But we aren't gonna just run iso every trip down the court and expect DMC to do everything. I doesn't work like that. We will run several different types of offense including the Princeton Motion, Early, Zone, Spread and the Dribble Drive. Even teams like the Spurs and GS that are known for a specific type of offense run other sets with other personal.

Why don't you worry about the Jazz point guard situation and their lack of bench depth.

As someone who has sat in the gym in Grinnell, I might be just a little bit more well versed than you think. And I don't mind honest criticism of any team I follow.

Honestly, this "dribble drive" is nothing new. It's basically a spread offense with 4 out and 1 in. The Suns ran it to death in the 2000's. The only concern I have is whether or not the Kings can spread the floor well enough to make it work as a first option set. George Karl is a coach who's desires lie in movement and passing, so, unless he's changed his spots after 30 some odd years then I would expect that to remain the emphasis.

[Wolfay]

Cool it y'all, and that includes backseat moderating.