Otto Porter Part 2

[stevemcqueen1]

I think a few people just got a little impatient after he was injured and never saw the floor in year 1.

A few? I think it was the majority. It was frustrating for me and I was a Porter fan who liked picking him over Noel on draft day, but my anger was more directed to Randy than Porter.

People got down on Porter for two main reasons: he couldn't crack the rotation, and they wanted Noel on draft day.

#1 let Otto be a lesson for us that just because a young player isn't playing for Randy Wittman, doesn't mean he can't or shouldn't be playing. Wittman is a conservative and stubborn coach who isn't interested in letting young guys play through their mistakes and learn on the job out on the floor. And I say Otto's case should be instructive for us so that we remain patient with Kelly Oubre should he too fail to play early in his career.

#2 is natural, Noel was the consensus #1 prospect for most of the draft process. The large majority of the board wanted him when he fell to #3. It's hard to have patience with someone if you never thought he deserved to be the pick in the first place.

[fishercob]

I mean, he was the #3 pick. And he was the consensus pick of the board before Noel fell to us (and Noel's been balling, too). So if such a player turns out good, it's not exactly a stretch worthy of rubbing everyone's face in it.

I think a few people just got a little impatient after he was injured and never saw the floor in year 1.

He was the consensus pick until Noel fell -- the the board freaked out. I have the same concerns that I had about Noel going into the draft: injury history, body, and limited skill set. I am not at all upset that we took Porter, especially considering that it's pretty likely there was a medical red flag that dropped Noel to 6.

Some here were calling Otto a bust before he even set foot on the floor. Many agreed when he didn't excel for the get-go. No matter; he's going to be very bit of Trevor Ariza and more when it's said and done.

[fishercob]

Looking back with the benefit of seeing the results of Otto's improvement, I think he was a factor in Pierce's decision to leave. I think Pierce saw the writing on the wall that Otto was going to take his starting job the moment he started struggling, or else he was going to spend most of his season at PF.

I was disappointed when he left, but now I'm much less so now that I've seen the new offense in action, and seen Otto's improvement. Pierce was no longer an ideal fit here. And at this point in his career, he's earned the right to have a little PT security and to play the position he wants to play. LA was a better fit for him for those two reasons alone. But also, he can contend there, play in his home city, and play for his favorite coach. He made the best choice available to him.

Interesting take. I wonder if that played a similar for Ariza. In his exit interview with the media (before he signed with Houston) he was unsolicitedly effusive about Otto. Maybe he knew that he'd be nipping at his heels for long.

[popper]

I mean, he was the #3 pick. And he was the consensus pick of the board before Noel fell to us (and Noel's been balling, too). So if such a player turns out good, it's not exactly a stretch worthy of rubbing everyone's face in it.

I think a few people just got a little impatient after he was injured and never saw the floor in year 1.

He was the consensus pick until Noel fell -- the the board freaked out. I have the same concerns that I had about Noel going into the draft: injury history, body, and limited skill set. I am not at all upset that we took Porter, especially considering that it's pretty likely there was a medical red flag that dropped Noel to 6.

Some here were calling Otto a bust before he even set foot on the floor. Many agreed when he didn't excel for the get-go. No matter; he's going to be very bit of Trevor Ariza and more when it's said and done.

That means we might end up with two Trevor's. Otto and Oubre. Great situation for Wiz given Otto has the length to play stretch 4.

[stevemcqueen1]

I am going to take it on myself to be beyond insufferable about having been right about this cat all along.

I've been a supporter of Porter but I definitely wanted Noel over him. I will happily eat crow if Porter continues to prove that he was the right pick.

Thought experiment: would you trade Porter straight up for Noel right now? Would Philly?

I think an argument could be made that they're both similarly effective, but the thing about Noel is that he doesn't really have a position. He's too small to be a full time center and he doesn't have the perimeter skill to be a full time PF. Porter can play 3 positions and fit onto any type of team.

Imo Noel doesn't have a true position in the classic sense, but he's one of those guys who is such a great athlete that he can find a way to be effective. He can't shoot or anything, but he's very quick with the ball and could make a living for 10-12ppg just beating opposing PFs off the dribble and even drawing some fouls. But he's still a ways off from fully overcoming his weaknesses, he's not a 'matchup proof' player yet.

But I made a similar point a while ago, Porter has a ready-made, ideal skillset for the modern NBA. A long 6'9 defensive wing with an all-around skillset, high IQ offball game and a quick trigger on the 3pt shot. A player like that, you can seamlessly put him next to other dynamic players and you'll be running teams out of the gym. A team like GSW would take Otto before they would take Noel.

Noel has ended up being better than I expected. I think that's mainly a result of the 76ers finally starting to settle on a build. I was pessimistic about his future in Philly, especially after Embiid was picked. They just didn't seem to fit together at all, but that situation has pretty much sorted itself out. I like Noel's fit at PF next to Okafor at C, provided Okafor's surprisingly good jumper is for real.

But also, he's made big strides at the FT line and improved his finishing touch around the basket. Combine that with his first step and you have the foundation for a passable offensive game.

He's an extremely impactful defender too. He covers multiple positions and has the hands and feet of a wing. The rare player that can cover tons of space as well as protect the rim.

But even still, I wouldn't trade Porter for him. On draft day I said that Porter was the best two-way player in his class, optimistic at the time, but I think it might actually end up being true. And I don't think the people who loved Noel and didn't like the Porter pick appreciated the extra value over Noel that Porter's advanced offensive game gave him until they saw it first hand in last year's playoffs. Then Otto's value just kind of clicked for everyone, and I think it's at the point where he's not a controversial pick any more.

When Otto wasn't playing last season, I was feeling down on him and felt that Len, Giannis, and Gobert would have been better picks in hindsight. But since Otto has proven himself to us, I've changed my mind again. I definitely wouldn't trade Otto for Len or Giannis any more. I'm kind of waffling on whether or not I'd do it for Gobert.

Like you said, 6'9 wings that can play defense and have advanced offensive skills are worth their weight in gold. Maybe worth even more than a 7'2 center that's a dominating rebounder and rim protector, but has no offensive game.

[Kanyewest]

Looking back with the benefit of seeing the results of Otto's improvement, I think he was a factor in Pierce's decision to leave. I think Pierce saw the writing on the wall that Otto was going to take his starting job the moment he started struggling, or else he was going to spend most of his season at PF.

Pierce always wanted to go to LA. The Clippers were the ones who chose to sign Spencer Hawes with the MLE last season. Plus Pierce may end up ceding his starting job in order to save himself for the playoffs.

[fishercob]

I've been a supporter of Porter but I definitely wanted Noel over him. I will happily eat crow if Porter continues to prove that he was the right pick.

Thought experiment: would you trade Porter straight up for Noel right now? Would Philly?

I think an argument could be made that they're both similarly effective, but the thing about Noel is that he doesn't really have a position. He's too small to be a full time center and he doesn't have the perimeter skill to be a full time PF. Porter can play 3 positions and fit onto any type of team.

Imo Noel doesn't have a true position in the classic sense, but he's one of those guys who is such a great athlete that he can find a way to be effective. He can't shoot or anything, but he's very quick with the ball and could make a living for 10-12ppg just beating opposing PFs off the dribble and even drawing some fouls. But he's still a ways off from fully overcoming his weaknesses, he's not a 'matchup proof' player yet.

But I made a similar point a while ago, Porter has a ready-made, ideal skillset for the modern NBA. A long 6'9 defensive wing with an all-around skillset, high IQ offball game and a quick trigger on the 3pt shot. A player like that, you can seamlessly put him next to other dynamic players and you'll be running teams out of the gym. A team like GSW would take Otto before they would take Noel.

Noel has ended up being better than I expected. I think that's mainly a result of the 76ers finally starting to settle on a build. I was pessimistic about his future in Philly, especially after Embiid was picked. They just didn't seem to fit together at all, but that situation has pretty much sorted itself out. I like Noel's fit at PF next to Okafor at C, provided Okafor's surprisingly good jumper is for real.

But also, he's made big strides at the FT line and improved his finishing touch around the basket. Combine that with his first step and you have the foundation for a passable offensive game.

He's an extremely impactful defender too. He covers multiple positions and has the hands and feet of a wing. The rare player that can cover tons of space as well as protect the rim.

But even still, I wouldn't trade Porter for him. On draft day I said that Porter was the best two-way player in his class, optimistic at the time, but I think it might actually end up being true. And I don't think the people who loved Noel and didn't like the Porter pick appreciated the extra value over Noel that Porter's advanced offensive game gave him until they saw it first hand in last year's playoffs. Then Otto's value just kind of clicked for everyone, and I think it's at the point where he's not a controversial pick any more.

When Otto wasn't playing last season, I was feeling down on him and felt that Len, Giannis, and Gobert would have been better picks in hindsight. But since Otto has proven himself to us, I've changed my mind again. I definitely wouldn't trade Otto for Len or Giannis any more. I'm kind of waffling on whether or not I'd do it for Gobert.

Like you said, 6'9 wings that can play defense and have advanced offensive skills are worth their weight in gold. Maybe worth even more than a 7'2 center that's a dominating rebounder and rim protector, but has no offensive game.

I love Otto, but I'd trade him for Giannis or Gobert in a heartbeat.

[Illmatic12]

I've been a supporter of Porter but I definitely wanted Noel over him. I will happily eat crow if Porter continues to prove that he was the right pick.

Thought experiment: would you trade Porter straight up for Noel right now? Would Philly?

I think an argument could be made that they're both similarly effective, but the thing about Noel is that he doesn't really have a position. He's too small to be a full time center and he doesn't have the perimeter skill to be a full time PF. Porter can play 3 positions and fit onto any type of team.

Imo Noel doesn't have a true position in the classic sense, but he's one of those guys who is such a great athlete that he can find a way to be effective. He can't shoot or anything, but he's very quick with the ball and could make a living for 10-12ppg just beating opposing PFs off the dribble and even drawing some fouls. But he's still a ways off from fully overcoming his weaknesses, he's not a 'matchup proof' player yet.

But I made a similar point a while ago, Porter has a ready-made, ideal skillset for the modern NBA. A long 6'9 defensive wing with an all-around skillset, high IQ offball game and a quick trigger on the 3pt shot. A player like that, you can seamlessly put him next to other dynamic players and you'll be running teams out of the gym. A team like GSW would take Otto before they would take Noel.

Noel has ended up being better than I expected. I think that's mainly a result of the 76ers finally starting to settle on a build. I was pessimistic about his future in Philly, especially after Embiid was picked. They just didn't seem to fit together at all, but that situation has pretty much sorted itself out. I like Noel's fit at PF next to Okafor at C, provided Okafor's surprisingly good jumper is for real.

But also, he's made big strides at the FT line and improved his finishing touch around the basket. Combine that with his first step and you have the foundation for a passable offensive game.

He's an extremely impactful defender too. He covers multiple positions and has the hands and feet of a wing. The rare player that can cover tons of space as well as protect the rim.

But even still, I wouldn't trade Porter for him. On draft day I said that Porter was the best two-way player in his class, optimistic at the time, but I think it might actually end up being true. And I don't think the people who loved Noel and didn't like the Porter pick appreciated the extra value over Noel that Porter's advanced offensive game gave him until they saw it first hand in last year's playoffs. Then Otto's value just kind of clicked for everyone, and I think it's at the point where he's not a controversial pick any more.

When Otto wasn't playing last season, I was feeling down on him and felt that Len, Giannis, and Gobert would have been better picks in hindsight. But since Otto has proven himself to us, I've changed my mind again. I definitely wouldn't trade Otto for Len or Giannis any more. I'm kind of waffling on whether or not I'd do it for Gobert.

Like you said, 6'9 wings that can play defense and have advanced offensive skills are worth their weight in gold. Maybe worth even more than a 7'2 center that's a dominating rebounder and rim protector, but has no offensive game.

I would trade Otto for Gobert so fast, lol. Gobert is on another tier from Porter or Noel, I would take him over Andre Drummond as well (and basically every other young C prospect).

But agreed, Otto's shooting and offball game fits our team so well that I wouldn't trade him for a 'flashier' athlete like Giannis, who is still far away in the skills dept.

[nuposse04]

Agreed with illmatic, I'd give up Porter for Gobert but not necessarily for Giannis. Giannis has good potential but not so much more so that I'd give away a relatively sure thing in porter... at least seemingly anyways.

[DCZards]

I think an argument could be made that they're both similarly effective, but the thing about Noel is that he doesn't really have a position. He's too small to be a full time center and he doesn't have the perimeter skill to be a full time PF. Porter can play 3 positions and fit onto any type of team.

You nailed it on Noel. Watching him last night my chief thought was "this guy doesn't have a true position." He tried to take his man off the dribble 2-3 times so that's something he's probably been working on because that's the kind of skill (along with shooting) if he's going to operate on the perimeter teamed with Okafor.

Porter over Noel is starting to look better and better.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Porter fits exactly what we need to compliment Wall and Beal. Noel may end up being the better player but guys with his injury history scare me and there is NO WAY this franchise could have taken on already injury riddled prospect.

Porter will do great this year. 3rd year leap.

Porter has all star ability. I think by the end of his career he'll be remembered as the better of the two between him and Beal. Porter has advantages --Length, defense, handles, threes--OP is fairly complete. High motor player as well.

He's not a complimentary piece. I'd rethink the cost of acquiring Durant before tossing Porter aside in a trade, because Otto will sign a modest contract and possibly will give a much better return on investment. Porter is really good without dominating the basketball.

Porter is at present way better than he was this time two years ago.

[Ruzious]

I see Porter as a bigger Danny Green - which is meant as a compliment since I've always been a big fan of Green's. I don't see him being the big scorer than Beal is likely to develop into. Otto will get most of his points from excellent cuts to the hoop, catch and shoot jumpers, and finishing on the break.

[nate33]

I see Porter as a bigger Danny Green - which is meant as a compliment since I've always been a big fan of Green's. I don't see him being the big scorer than Beal is likely to develop into. Otto will get most of his points from excellent cuts to the hoop, catch and shoot jumpers, and finishing on the break.

That's how I envisioned Otto after his first season. He was a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none guy in college and his lackluster 1st year led me to believe that his best hope was to focus on 3&D and at least be a specialist in the two most important roles of a small forward. But after watching him in the playoffs last year and seeing him in the preseason this year, I'm starting to believe that he can be much more than just a 3&D guy. He definitely has ball-handling and rebounding skills that allow him to do more. And he's starting to show better decision-making.

I don't think he has the hyper-quick first step or the deadly shot creation skills to be a true first option scorer like a Grant Hill, Kevin Durant or Carmelo Anthony; but I really think he can evolve into a part-time primary ball-handler like a Scottie Pippen or Gordon Hayward. At the very least, he's a good bet to be a better-shooting version of Nicolas Batum.

[stevemcqueen1]

He has superior scoring instincts. That (along with his advanced skill levels) is what I felt separated him from the pure 3 and D players. He plays the game with superior anticipation and knows when and how to score. It's how he can be so effective off the ball.

As a third option, his efficiency numbers are going to be astronomical. Wouldn't surprise me if he shoots well over 50% and puts up an ORtg in the high 110's or even the 120's.

I wouldn't trade him for Giannis. As high as Giannis's upside is, Porter was made in a lab by basketball scientists to be the SF for this particular team. He's going to be worth so much to us.

[Dat2U]

Is it too late to trade Porter for Ilyasova?

[nate33]

Through 5 games this preseason, Porter is averaging 21 points, 5.5 boards, 3.3 assists and 2.1 steals (per 36) with a TS% of 71% and an on/off differential of +17.6. He is shooting 60% from the floor and 56% from behind the arc. Caveat: 3 of those preseason games were against non-NBA-caliber opponents. Against the 2 real teams he faced, New York and Milwaukee, the results were a little less impressive. He was pretty solid against Milwaukee but not good against New York.

[TGW]

I would take Noel over porter easily. Noel is going to be an elite defensive player in a few seasons. Otto will be a somewhat middling wingman at his peak.


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[The Consiglieri]

I am going to take it on myself to be beyond insufferable about having been right about this cat all along.

I've been a supporter of Porter but I definitely wanted Noel over him. I will happily eat crow if Porter continues to prove that he was the right pick.

Thought experiment: would you trade Porter straight up for Noel right now? Would Philly?

I think an argument could be made that they're both similarly effective, but the thing about Noel is that he doesn't really have a position. He's too small to be a full time center and he doesn't have the perimeter skill to be a full time PF. Porter can play 3 positions and fit onto any type of team.

I've been a major critic though thankfully for my own egos' sake, when things had hit their nadir last winter I still was adding the caveat that as much as I was against the Porter pick, and felt right all along in wanting Noel over him, it was unfair to judge Porter when he'd never received consistent minutes, and was clearly being hamstrung in his development by a veteran's first coach. Kind of like David Johnson right now in Arizona, as great as Arians is, he hates playing rookies because of the mistakes, and would likely be playing Chris Johnson regardless of whether his current renaissance had taken place or not. Sure enough, Porter finally gets consistent minutes in the playoffs and he blows up.

I wanted Noel then, I'd still take Noel now over him. I was right about many things in that draft (loving Gobert, Adams, Schroder and Antetokounmpo, ripping on the idiocy of passing on Noel) but I definitely look wrong concerning my distaste for Porter, and especially my rating of Bennett ahead of him which appears unbelievably moronic at this point (thankfully Noel dropping saved me from the indignity of rating Bennett best overall player available at our slot).

[The Consiglieri]

I should add this: I definitely don't think Porter's going to be a middling anything it appears pretty clear right now that through regular playing time, learning under his coaches, and his outstanding work habits and mental make up, he's been able to overcome some issues in terms of athleticism, to become a legit player, I think his floor has risen from "bust" fears a year ago, to above league average, to potential occasional all star player.

When you combine Porter coming through (assuming he does), and stealing Oubre in this draft, a top 5-10 talent in his class that we got for basically the cost of a late teen pick), if both continue on their potential trajectory, and reach close to their ceiling, those pick negate a lot of the cost in misses that we had with our first rounders after Wall in 2010, and in the 2011 drafts. That's HUGE and heck, it offers a ton of flexibility and attractiveness to players in that '16 and '17 free agent classes and beyond. Players watching the Warriors success, and seeing the Wizards looking like potentially Warriors East, it could be damn attractive-solid smart veteran center, studs at the 1, 2 and 3. For the first time since we drafted Wall, I'm incredibly excited for the future.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Is it too late to trade Porter for Ilyasova?

Thankfully, this idea never was acted on.