Better team this season= Utah Jazz or Sacramento Kings?

[JellosJigglin]

Kings by far. Better star players, deeper bench, veteran experience.

Jazz do not have enough offensive firepower and were a bottom 5 scoring team last season and I expect it to be similar this season. Big Hayward fan, but he needs a lot more help around him, especially creating shots. Trey Burke will have to step up immensely if Jazz want that 8th spot.

That has more to do with the snail pace they play at.

[Masterfully]

Really surprised by the responses. This is the Jazz and it's not close. That group in Sacto, it's going to go off the rails. I could see them challenge for worst in the West. Meanwhile the Jazz are a no-brainer playoff team.

[Stoked]

Kings by far. Better star players, deeper bench, veteran experience.

Jazz do not have enough offensive firepower and were a bottom 5 scoring team last season and I expect it to be similar this season. Big Hayward fan, but he needs a lot more help around him, especially creating shots. Trey Burke will have to step up immensely if Jazz want that 8th spot.

That has more to do with the snail pace they play at.

And Burks being gone and Hood being a rookie. If those two come to play then this Jazz team will start shocking a lot of people.

Also Snyder is addressing the lack of a legit PG with Exum being down for the season. They brought over Neto who has great vision and D and good passing. Kid cannot hit the ocean however. Also the Jazz have ball handlers in Hayward, Hood and Burks. This season they are starting to have multiple players bring the ball (whoever gets it first) up the court and initiate the offense. This is increasing their pace and making Burke an off ball player which is something he is decent at.

Start watching for 3 wing sets from Utah instead of a PG on the floor. Burks is an elite at slashing and getting to the FT line. He is also fast enough to stay in front of most PGs.

Jazz are battling with the Pelicans for the 7th seed imo.

Kings (their own fault), Mavs and Suns are a step behind.

[Litany]

3 reasons I have been picking the Kings in this matchup all summer long:

1) Boogie. the Kings have the best player, by a lot. They have the superstar to anchor them. The Jazz are always going to be scrambling for offense because they don't.

2) the Exum injury. As soon as it happened I went uh oh. I think people are badly underestimating how much that may have damaged the Jazz. Burke is both terrible, and a terrible fit for the personality they established last year with Exum at the helm. And I'm mildly shocked they never did make a move over the summer for veteran reinforcements.

3) Experience. Nobody talks about this, probably because Sacto hasn't been in the playoffs forever either, but they imported all kinds of winners and playoff experienced guys and multiple guys who have actually won titles. Not to mention the 1000 win coach who rarely misses the playoffs. The Jazz did none of that. They are sticking with building up the young core. And that's cool for the future. But right now you are asking a group of very young players, with a young coach, with almost no collective playoff experience at all to make the Western Conference playoffs, and to do it without their pg too. Ouch. It even reaches the level of the coaches, with Snyder with 0 playoffs under his belt, and Karl with 22 playoffs and 185 playoff games under his.

Just going down the Jazz's likely Top 10 players, here's the experience:

Gobert: Age 23; Yrs 2; PO games: 0
Burke: Age 22; Yrs 2; PO games: 0
Favors: Age 24; Yrs 5; PO games: 4
Hayward: Age 25; Yrs 5; PO games: 4
Burks: Age 24; Yrs 4; PO games: 4
Hood: Age 23; Yrs 1; PO games: 0
Booker: Age 27; Yrs 5; PO games: 9
Milsap: Age 28; Yrs 1; PO games: 0
Ingles: Age 28; Yrs 1; PO games: 0
Lyles: Age 19; Yrs 1; PO games: 0
Exum (hurt): Age 20; Yrs 1; PO games: 0
----------------------------------
When your top 11 players have a TOTAL of 21 playoff games between them...

Now compare that to Sacramento's acqusitions this summer:
Rondo 94 PO games, 1 title
Belinelli 48 PO games, 1 title
Koufos 37 PO games
Butler 65 PO games, 1 title
--------------------------------
244 PO games


I just look at that, and I think one of those teams made the sorts of moves you have to make to punch through. To vet up and stiffen the spines of the young guys, guys who have been there and won. And the other team is still developing kids and hoping.

1. Cousins is probably the best player, but I still would take any of Hayward, Favors, or Gobert over him any day. I think those three contribute to a team winning and overall chemistry of a team better than Cousins ever will. The Kings situation is a ticking time bomb...again...as it always will be with whenever COusins is involved. There's a reason Karl wanted to trade him. I don't care what all the PR crap has said lately. Fact remains he wanted to move him. Cousins had about a 25 PER which is top 10 in the NBA, Favors had about a 22 PER and thats good enough for about 12th in the league. Favors is also interested in defense, unlike someone I know:



Like I said, I'd for sure rather have Favors and Gobert over Cousins, Hayward too, but it'd be close. Flame away, but I'll be proven right over the next few years when Cousins continues being the time-bomb he always has been.

2. The PG situation will sort itself out with Burke and Neto. The Jazz didn't rely on Exum for offense so it is his D that will greatly be missed. Neto can help that if Burke doesn't fit right.

3. Pointing to playoff experience is pretty pointless. Rondo was with 3 HOF guys when he was good. Hasn't been effective since they left. Caron Butler playoff experience being cited...lol. And Bellineli and Koufos are borderline bench players who cares what their PO experience is.


I expect the Jazz to finish 8th or possibly 7th if things go just right. Sacramento 10-11th.

[Hikari]

I'm a Jazz fan so my opinion is biased. However I think it all depends on how Sacramento starts the season. If they lose a bunch of games early then they could really fall apart. If they win early I think they could be pretty good.

[Takingbaconback]

I think Gobert is a top tier defensive player already but the addition fo WCS by kings is huge imo. Kings will have a better record by a little bit is my best guess

[SocalJazz]

My guess is Jazz get 47 wins this year, Kings get 29.

Now for a less-biased opinion, Vegas over/unders right now have Jazz at 40.5 and Kings at 30.5

[sdballer]

Kings though I like the jazz.

Better star. Better coach. Better PGs. More experienced. People are sleeping on the kings additions and overstating the chemistry stuff. Also wcs has been a defensive stud thru the first few preseason games which (along with cuz and koufos) is going to go to make a big difference in their big weakness from last year.

They're really outside shooting consistency away from being a dangerous team.

[sdballer]

My guess is Jazz get 47 wins this year, Kings get 29.

Now for a less-biased opinion, Vegas over/unders right now have Jazz at 40.5 and Kings at 30.5

Which is one of the best bets in sports. After all the dysfunction last year plus talent upgrades, kings will add 1 win? Silly.

[sdballer]

3 reasons I have been picking the Kings in this matchup all summer long:

1) Boogie. the Kings have the best player, by a lot. They have the superstar to anchor them. The Jazz are always going to be scrambling for offense because they don't.

2) the Exum injury. As soon as it happened I went uh oh. I think people are badly underestimating how much that may have damaged the Jazz. Burke is both terrible, and a terrible fit for the personality they established last year with Exum at the helm. And I'm mildly shocked they never did make a move over the summer for veteran reinforcements.

3) Experience. Nobody talks about this, probably because Sacto hasn't been in the playoffs forever either, but they imported all kinds of winners and playoff experienced guys and multiple guys who have actually won titles. Not to mention the 1000 win coach who rarely misses the playoffs. The Jazz did none of that. They are sticking with building up the young core. And that's cool for the future. But right now you are asking a group of very young players, with a young coach, with almost no collective playoff experience at all to make the Western Conference playoffs, and to do it without their pg too. Ouch. It even reaches the level of the coaches, with Snyder with 0 playoffs under his belt, and Karl with 22 playoffs and 185 playoff games under his.

Just going down the Jazz's likely Top 10 players, here's the experience:

Gobert: Age 23; Yrs 2; PO games: 0
Burke: Age 22; Yrs 2; PO games: 0
Favors: Age 24; Yrs 5; PO games: 4
Hayward: Age 25; Yrs 5; PO games: 4
Burks: Age 24; Yrs 4; PO games: 4
Hood: Age 23; Yrs 1; PO games: 0
Booker: Age 27; Yrs 5; PO games: 9
Milsap: Age 28; Yrs 1; PO games: 0
Ingles: Age 28; Yrs 1; PO games: 0
Lyles: Age 19; Yrs 1; PO games: 0
Exum (hurt): Age 20; Yrs 1; PO games: 0
----------------------------------
When your top 11 players have a TOTAL of 21 playoff games between them...

Now compare that to Sacramento's acqusitions this summer:
Rondo 94 PO games, 1 title
Belinelli 48 PO games, 1 title
Koufos 37 PO games
Butler 65 PO games, 1 title
--------------------------------
244 PO games


I just look at that, and I think one of those teams made the sorts of moves you have to make to punch through. To vet up and stiffen the spines of the young guys, guys who have been there and won. And the other team is still developing kids and hoping.

1. Cousins is probably the best player, but I still would take any of Hayward, Favors, or Gobert over him any day. I think those three contribute to a team winning and overall chemistry of a team better than Cousins ever will. The Kings situation is a ticking time bomb...again...as it always will be with whenever COusins is involved. There's a reason Karl wanted to trade him. I don't care what all the PR crap has said lately. Fact remains he wanted to move him. Cousins had about a 25 PER which is top 10 in the NBA, Favors had about a 22 PER and thats good enough for about 12th in the league. Favors is also interested in defense, unlike someone I know:



Like I said, I'd for sure rather have Favors and Gobert over Cousins, Hayward too, but it'd be close. Flame away, but I'll be proven right over the next few years when Cousins continues being the time-bomb he always has been.

2. The PG situation will sort itself out with Burke and Neto. The Jazz didn't rely on Exum for offense so it is his D that will greatly be missed. Neto can help that if Burke doesn't fit right.

3. Pointing to playoff experience is pretty pointless. Rondo was with 3 HOF guys when he was good. Hasn't been effective since they left. Caron Butler playoff experience being cited...lol. And Bellineli and Koufos are borderline bench players who cares what their PO experience is.


I expect the Jazz to finish 8th or possibly 7th if things go just right. Sacramento 10-11th.

Cherry picking one play to suggest cousins is a poor defender ignores basically everything cuz did on d last year.

[Litany]

I think Gobert is a top tier defensive player already but the addition fo WCS by kings is huge imo. Kings will have a better record by a little bit is my best guess

IMO picking WCS was a big mistake. How they passed on Mudiay there is beyond me. What a gift to Denver. WCS doesn't fit well with Cousins.

[Litany]

Denver Nuggets will be better than both.

I think this was said with Sarcasm, but after the Kings were silly enough to pass on Mudiay, I think you guys are in a good spot to rebuild from here. Have him be your guy and get a good pick next year and go up from there. You'll be thankful to the Kings for years to come.

[Xsy]

I really wish there was a poll in this topic. Should be fun to revisit this one in a few months.

[sdballer]

I think Gobert is a top tier defensive player already but the addition fo WCS by kings is huge imo. Kings will have a better record by a little bit is my best guess

IMO picking WCS was a big mistake. How they passed on Mudiay there is beyond me. What a gift to Denver. WCS doesn't fit well with Cousins.

Wcs has looked very impressive on d next to cuz and gives the team a mobile, versatile defender who is athletic enough to benefit from rondos passing.

[Nate505]

I'm a bit shocked the Kings have votes here, though I'm biased.

The most unbiased source I can think of, Vegas, has the Jazz at 40.5 wins this year and has the Kings at 30.5 wins (at least at one Sportsbook as of late September of this year...I imagine they are all within a win of each other). That's a significant difference there.

[miltk]

the "personalities" on the kings will do them in.

Yes. Watching the Kings the other night, I once again was left with the conviction that the Kings should be allowed to play with five basketballs so they all could get their shots. Other than Rondo, it doesn't look like any of the starters are interested in passing the ball. I thought with Rondo at the point he could control the ball-hogging and gunning by the other starters. I don't see that happening.
The Jazz have less overall talent but are more into a team concept.

Am wondering offhand which one of Kosta Koufos, Willie Cauley Stein, Ben McLemore or James Anderson you are accusing of gunning?

I caught part of the Spurs game last night and the box says the Kings starters were:

Gay 13FGA
Cousins 11FGA
WCS 3FGA
Anderson 3FGA
Rondo 4FGA

truly you can see how all 5 guys were gunning at will and fighting over the ball.

i did not watch the game so i can't speak for johnlac, but when i said personalities that is what i meant. you haven't heard the last of cousins and of cousins versus someone else. gay and rondo come with BIG baggage. personalities are a fragile thing,,,,,they break. how many times are we going to hear how cousins has matured,,,until something happens. last year it only took him not playing for the whole team to fall apart. it only takes a couple of players/coaches to derail a team.

this is a fragile team.

[cpower]

clearly Jazz

[Wonderllama]

What Cousins brings offensively, Gobert can do defensively. I think it's really close.

[sdballer]

Yes. Watching the Kings the other night, I once again was left with the conviction that the Kings should be allowed to play with five basketballs so they all could get their shots. Other than Rondo, it doesn't look like any of the starters are interested in passing the ball. I thought with Rondo at the point he could control the ball-hogging and gunning by the other starters. I don't see that happening.
The Jazz have less overall talent but are more into a team concept.

Am wondering offhand which one of Kosta Koufos, Willie Cauley Stein, Ben McLemore or James Anderson you are accusing of gunning?

I caught part of the Spurs game last night and the box says the Kings starters were:

Gay 13FGA
Cousins 11FGA
WCS 3FGA
Anderson 3FGA
Rondo 4FGA

truly you can see how all 5 guys were gunning at will and fighting over the ball.

i did not watch the game so i can't speak for johnlac, but when i said personalities that is what i meant. you haven't heard the last of cousins and of cousins versus someone else. gay and rondo come with BIG baggage. personalities are a fragile thing,,,,,they break. how many times are we going to hear how cousins has matured,,,until something happens. last year it only took him not playing for the whole team to fall apart. it only takes a couple of players/coaches to derail a team.

this is a fragile team.

Couple things. First the "fragile" personalities are actually all pretty close and they've added veterans to help stabilize things.

More importantly, the additions they made help take some of the load off cousins. Last year, they spent half the season trotting out this lineup:

Ray mccallum/andre miller
Ben mclemore/nik stauskus
Rudy gay/omri casspi
Jason Thompson/Derrick Williams
Cuz/Ryan hollins

Compare that to:

Rajon rondo/darren collison/Seth curry
Ben mclemore/Marco bellineli/James Anderson
Rudy gay/omri casspi/Caron butler
Wcs/Quincy acy/eric Moreland
Cuz/Kosta koufos

That's a big upgrade in fit/talent and experience

[bondom34]

I'm a bit shocked the Kings have votes here, though I'm biased.

The most unbiased source I can think of, Vegas, has the Jazz at 40.5 wins this year and has the Kings at 30.5 wins (at least at one Sportsbook as of late September of this year...I imagine they are all within a win of each other). That's a significant difference there.

That's not actually Vegas's job though. They just want to play off what they think the public chooses. Using plus/minus, Nylon Calc got 37 for Utah, 35 for the Kings:

http://nyloncalculus.com/2015/09/30/highly-plausible-nba-win-projections-2015-16/