What do we do if Ben McLemore is the same old Ben this year?

blind prophet · Post #1 » by **blind prophet** » Wed Oct 7, 2015 3:05 am

Ok we are giving him another shot, and likely good amount of minutes this season. We've invested a lot of time with this guy.

I want to pose a question for you guys, and a scenario and would like to hear what you think we can or should do.

Let's say we are healthy, and in competition for the playoffs but Ben has not improved much, and a couple of games can make or break us in our playoff pursuit as well as keeping chemistry positive.

So pretend your Vlade, what do we do?

A look at the contract for the next two years

This year $3,156,600
Next season $4,008,882

blind prophet · Post #2 » by **blind prophet** » Wed Oct 7, 2015 3:07 am

Me personally, I'm not interested really in the return if he gets moved, I'm more interested in trying to upgrade the roster somehow to compensate for those SG minutes.

I don't really see a terrible contract I'd like to get out of, not really interested in moving any other asset at this time, and I'm not sure what we could do to improve much.

Maybe Martin in Minnesota, but I'm not sure about his defense or health long term.

SacKingZZZ · Post #3 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Wed Oct 7, 2015 8:23 pm

First off, the question is what is truly expected of Ben McLemore. It's going to be hard to have much a chance to live up his potential and draft positioning if he's a role player. Which is the only role really available to him. Ben has has some bust out games, but that's when he can get more than 8 shots in the game. It's always tough when you draft a player based on talent to be a role player with your team, and likewise, draft a role player as high as they did Cauley-Stein expecting him to turn into far more than a role player. The fact is however that both being solid role players is what the team needs. Ben has to play lock down defense and hit spot shots at a decent clip, and not too much more than that right now. Is he capable? I'm not sure, the athletic tools are there though.

Right now any position outside of Cousins and Gay is all about the right fit, not necessarily talent unless they combine fit with that talent. If McLemore can't consistently be that role player the Kings need they have to consider either clearing a spot for him to be more than he is, or move him. It's that simple. Problem being that squashing any top draft pick into a role player is hardly good for value. Injuries and contract aside Wes Matthews would have been perfect for this team and one of the only real options out there that you could have slotted in and moved right along assuming he regains his form. I'm disappointed they didn't at least look at Carroll. I do think Ben can be a better scorer and has a much higher upside than either though. Defensively he can be really good as well, but he can't defend the same kind of size those other two can.

HUBlackstar83 · Post #4 » by **HUBlackstar83** » Wed Oct 7, 2015 8:31 pm

I think the biggest issue with him is his confidence. We've seen what a confident Ben is capable of doing. I'm not expecting him to be James Harden, but I he can just start playing consistently, it changes the scouting report for this team tremendously.

Kings2013 · Post #5 » by **Kings2013** » Wed Oct 7, 2015 11:51 pm

It's a legit question

I've come down hard on Vlade's pursuit of Wes Matthews, but seeing that Ben might not be able to hack the position full time, and how little choice there might have been in FA last summer or in the future makes me at least understand it a little more, though still not agree with it.

Next summer the FA market will dry up. As Zach Lowe pointed out nearly every team will have like 20 mil in space on average.. We might still have a mid first round pick, so maybe draft again?

I'm interested in seeing what James Anderson can do this preseason or if he's just a scrub

blind prophet · Post #6 » by **blind prophet** » Thu Oct 8, 2015 12:57 am

SacKingZZZ wrote:First off, the question is what is truly expected of Ben McLemore. It's going to be hard to have much a chance to live up his potential and draft positioning if he's a role player. Which is the only role really available to him. Ben has has some bust out games, but that's when he can get more than 8 shots in the game. It's always tough when you draft a player based on talent to be a role player with your team, and likewise, draft a role player as high as they did Cauley-Stein expecting him to turn into far more than a role player. The fact is however that both being solid role players is what the team needs. Ben has to play lock down defense and hit spot shots at a decent clip, and not too much more than that right now. Is he capable? I'm not sure, the athletic tools are there though.

Right now any position outside of Cousins and Gay is all about the right fit, not necessarily talent unless they combine fit with that talent. If McLemore can't consistently be that role player the Kings need they have to consider either clearing a spot for him to be more than he is, or move him. It's that simple. Problem being that squashing any top draft pick into a role player is hardly good for value. Injuries and contract aside Wes Matthews would have been perfect for this team and one of the only real options out there that you could have slotted in and moved right along assuming he regains his form. I'm disappointed they didn't at least look at Carroll. I do think Ben can be a better scorer and has a much higher upside than either though. Defensively he can be really good as well, but he can't defend the same kind of size those other two can.

I agree a solid role player is what we need for the position at this time. You mentioned 8 shots a game as a baseline and we are not giving him enough opportunity scoring wise to develop a reliable offensive game.

I'd think between Collison, Rondo, and Cousins all good ball movement guys, he should be able to get 5-6 somewhat open looks that he should be knocking down at good percentages per game. Add in maybe 2-3 fast break or cuts to the key etc and it should be there.

Problem is he hasn't been able to do this reliably in the past.

His athletic ability is there no question, but if he is going to have box scores frequently sub par in the scoring department from a SG he better be playing elite defense, which he is not.

But how do we improve this roster if we want to add someone else? I'm not sure what to do as every other piece looks like fit wise works.

blind prophet · Post #7 » by **blind prophet** » Thu Oct 8, 2015 12:58 am

HUBlackstar83 wrote:I think the biggest issue with him is his confidence. We've seen what a confident Ben is capable of doing. I'm not expecting him to be James Harden, but I he can just start playing consistently, it changes the scouting report for this team tremendously.

Yeah there isn't any more time to waste, we need him to show up now, not here and there.

blind prophet · Post #8 » by **blind prophet** » Thu Oct 8, 2015 1:00 am

Kings2013 wrote:It's a legit question

I've come down hard on Vlade's pursuit of Wes Matthews, but seeing that Ben might not be able to hack the position full time, and how little choice there might have been in FA last summer or in the future makes me at least understand it a little more, though still not agree with it.

Next summer the FA market will dry up. As Zach Lowe pointed out nearly every team will have like 20 mil in space on average.. We might still have a mid first round pick, so maybe draft again?

I'm interested in seeing what James Anderson can do this preseason or if he's just a scrub

Long term maybe trying our luck out next free agency and letting Ben take a lesser role keeps some hope he develops later alive.

You seeing any way to improve the team now however, rather than waiting the entire year if he is the same old Ben?

The only option I've seen is moving Ben for a vet to a rebuilding team. Which is why Martin came to mind, but he brings some concerns himself.

Anyone else on the radar you can think of?

Post #9 » by **Klomp** » Fri Oct 9, 2015 6:49 pm

blind prophet wrote:The only option I've seen is moving Ben for a vet to a rebuilding team. Which is why Martin came to mind, but he brings some concerns himself.

Funny, I was just thinking about Martin trade options, and McLemore came to mind. Would be an interesting option.

bleeds_purple · Post #10 » by **bleeds_purple** » Fri Oct 9, 2015 8:01 pm

I think you guys are focusing too heavily on his offensive production.

All I really want to see from him is defense and taking open shots with confidence. He doesn't need to be anything special. His draft position is irrelevant.

blind prophet · Post #11 » by **blind prophet** » Fri Oct 9, 2015 8:15 pm

Klomp wrote:
blind prophet wrote:The only option I've seen is moving Ben for a vet to a rebuilding team. Which is why Martin came to mind, but he brings some concerns himself.

Funny, I was just thinking about Martin trade options, and McLemore came to mind. Would be an interesting option.

Not a whole lot of options out there, but would be hard for us to do as Martin would hurt us defensively too.

I think if Ben continues as he has we need to look around though.

blind prophet · Post #12 » by **blind prophet** » Fri Oct 9, 2015 8:20 pm

bleeds_purple wrote:I think you guys are focusing too heavily on his offensive production.

All I really want to see from him is defense and taking open shots with confidence. He doesn't need to be anything special. His draft position is irrelevant.

If you can't be found for 5-6 good looks a game with the other team having to double Rudy occasionally, or even triple teaming Cousins every once in awhile then something is wrong.

Ben should be getting 8-10 shots a game, 5-6 good jumpers, his athleticism on the breaks or just cutting to the key etc should take up the rest.

If not he better be all defensive caliber.

blind prophet · Post #13 » by **blind prophet** » Fri Oct 9, 2015 8:23 pm

Look at it this way, Thompson didn't score much for us, but he did play good individual defense after what 5 or 6 seasons?

I bet you WCS exceeds his production this year over last year, and big time upgrade to team defense.

Same sort of situation we have here, he's not playing good enough defense to justify it.

SactoKingsFan · Post #14 » by **SactoKingsFan** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:04 am

I'm not really worried about McLemore. He's only 22 and showed significant signs of improvement last season. He's already a pretty good defender and should at least be a good 3 & D role player, which is way more valuable than Kevin Martin.

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nolimit0820 · Post #15 » by **nolimit0820** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:34 pm

I think Ben has the potential to shine, but that potential is not strong enough to shine with the current make up of THIS team. In other words, in order for him to make a jump I believe he needs to be a high usage player. As of now, I don't see him having that opportunity. There's a reason why a guy like James Anderson is being highlighted by so many players. He is a low usage player (3 and D) and fits.

For the first time in years, we are actually stacked. Pieces fit, roles are being established, and its obvious when someone doesn't fit. I like Ben, but unfortunately don't see how its going to work here. Sure, he can be a perfect 3 and D type player, but his ceiling is higher than that and the guy needs shots. Between Cousins, Gay, Collison, and Belinelli there is not many shots for him. 3 of 4 of our main scorers are perimeter oriented players.

Just a thought...I hope it can work out. I am a big fan and am rooting for him to have a strong year.

Post #16 » by **Wolfay** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:04 pm

bleeds_purple wrote:I think you guys are focusing too heavily on his offensive production.

All I really want to see from him is defense and taking open shots with confidence. He doesn't need to be anything special. His draft position is irrelevant.

Precisely! As long as he's helping us win games, who gives a crap about everything else. Just because he was a lotto pick he has to score 20 a game? That's pretty high up there in the dumbest things I've ever heard. You're not wasting anything if you're contributing to the team's success.

nolimit0820 · Post #17 » by **nolimit0820** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:58 pm

True in regards to focusing too much on offense...but I don't think Ben is going to be an efficient enough player to be effective as a low usage guy. He is focusing on defense but is far from being the level of player this team needs defensively at the 2. We don't need potential on the defensive end we need someone to get it done.

All in all, I believe Ben cannot and will not be efficient enough to be the low usage guy this team obviously needs at the 2. I hope I'm wrong!

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Post #18 » by **KF10** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:59 pm

BMac has been a spectator in Karl's offense. Not sure if it has to deal with BMac's (lack of) role in the team, his passive attitude or a combination of both things. I really like BMac but if he continues to put zero's across the board, it's hard to not to think of moving him for the the highest bidder, imo. I know, he provides things that isn't shown in the boxscore i.e. defense, floor spacing, etc but I don't think it negates on what he is currently lacking.

Post #19 » by **City of Trees** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:06 pm

I don't care if Ben has the same numbers this year as long as his feel for the game takes a big step... If at years end he still looks lost then I'm all for moving on.

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nolimit0820 · Post #20 » by **nolimit0820** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:16 pm

I think he had a great offseason personally. But not to sound like a broken record...lol he won't be able to produce in the limited role he's going to have.

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