Maybe Gibby not so great at managing a bullpen?

blaateeee · Post #1 » by **blaateeee** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:48 pm

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-playoffs-bullpen-managers-mike-matheny-joe-girardi/?ex_cid=story-twitter

RapsAndJays21 · Post #2 » by **RapsAndJays21** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:49 pm

Nothing Gibby could do about losing Cecil and Loup.

Raptor_Guy · Post #3 » by **Raptor_Guy** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:53 pm

Meh he still uses more common sense than Cito and Farrell

ldnk · Post #4 » by **ldnk** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:55 pm

Honestly, anything written about the Jays at this point from anything remotely ESPN affiliated means nothing to me. Nothing about the Jays is a discussion about the team, it's all about how offended Price is and where he is going to wind up next year. Do you have anyone talking about where Yovani Gallado is going to sign next year after only getting to pitch in Game 1? How about Zach Grienke's next destination?

Personally I don't care for Gibbons. I have made myself abundantly clear on that so there really isn't a lot of benefit to me railing on him day after day...especially when we are in the middle of a postseason series.

JoeyBats · Post #5 » by **JoeyBats** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:56 pm

In April, he didn't have a closer and had Castro/Delaba/Cecil blowing saves. Until Sanchez went back to the pen and the acquisitions of Lowe and Hawkins he had a really bad pen.

joseph227 · Post #6 » by **joseph227** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:17 pm

Maybe, but I've also seen the way Jeff Bannister and other managers have managed this playoffs so I really can't complain about gibby.

Skin Blues · Post #7 » by **Skin Blues** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:25 pm

RapsAndJays21 wrote:Nothing Gibby could do about losing Cecil and Loup.

This is based on his bullpen usage from 2013-2015. And it has nothing to do with the quality of the bullpen, it is to do with how efficiently they were deployed. This suggests that he uses his best arms in sub-optimal situations.

As for using Price in game 4, it isn't excused by saying "we didn't have Cecil or Loup". You don't need to use a lefty. It's not mandatory. You have to think, "if I'm going to use David Price for 3 innings the rest of the way, when will the most important 3 innings occur?" And if your answer is "with a 7-1 lead" then you are likely to end up near the bottom of these bullpen usage metrics.

JN · Post #8 » by JN » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:10 pm

Maybe it's the same across all teams, but it feels like the Jays have had an unusual amount of relievers that have had sudden changes In performance the last 3 years (Delabar, Cecil (up and down), Janssen) .. Given the sudden changes in performance for these guys, do you really want a prior 12 month metric to determine how they should be used now? The metric would have said that the Jays should have stuck with Delabar in higher leverage situations a little longer. Should Cecil not have been used in high leverage situations in August and September?

It was a nice attempt to measure bullpen management, and probably is valid in manycases, but some outliers may have nothing to do with management. It's certainly slanted to teams who have had 3-4 consistent relievers from year to year. But a manager that has to deal with bullpen guys who are inconsistent actually has a tougher job, and this metric will not like him either.

SaveTheHens · Post #9 » by **SaveTheHens** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:34 am

Skin Blues wrote:
RapsAndJays21 wrote:Nothing Gibby could do about losing Cecil and Loup.

This is based on his bullpen usage from 2013-2015. And it has nothing to do with the quality of the bullpen, it is to do with how efficiently they were deployed. This suggests that he uses his best arms in sub-optimal situations.

As for using Price in game 4, it isn't excused by saying "we didn't have Cecil or Loup". You don't need to use a lefty. It's not mandatory. You have to think, "if I'm going to use David Price for 3 innings the rest of the way, when will the most important 3 innings occur?" And if your answer is "with a 7-1 lead" then you are likely to end up near the bottom of these bullpen usage metrics.

I wonder how much of that was to give Price some confidence & NOT having to play him game 5. Price has struggled in the postseason before, and losing game 1 may have had an effect on him mentally. I want to use our ace in the next (2?) series but not if he's got a chance to foil when we need every win.

EastBayBoy · Post #10 » by **EastBayBoy** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:42 am

ldnk wrote:Honestly, anything written about the Jays at this point from anything remotely ESPN affiliated means nothing to me. Nothing about the Jays is a discussion about the team, it's all about how offended Price is and where he is going to wind up next year. Do you have anyone talking about where Yovani Gallado is going to sign next year after only getting to pitch in Game 1? How about Zach Grienke's next destination?

Personally I don't care for Gibbons. I have made myself abundantly clear on that so there really isn't a lot of benefit to me railing on him day after day...especially when we are in the middle of a postseason series.

Exactly. They should have an article about how Grienke should be offended for not starting game 1 after having the season he had.