Pacers vs. Magic

[boomershadow]

I did manage to catch this game. Very exciting! Not televised, at least in my cable area, but I found a stream of it.There were some rough parts at the beginning for sure. Some of the rookies looking like rookies. That's not unexpected. There are some highlights though. GRIII can shoot. Hill added some blocks, which was a nice surprise since most of what I read about him when he joined the team said that he was't much of a rim protector. Monta looked....okay playing point guard with Hill out for the game.

There was a lot of careless play. Guys moving too fast. Getting stuck not knowing what to do with the ball. Mistakes. Missing out on loose balls. Lots of stuff that is gonna need tightened up. But it's still preseason. And it's gonna take time.

What do y'all think?

[Scoot McGroot]

. GRIII can shoot.

That's a great thing to see, considering that was one of his biggest question marks coming out of Michigan and in the NBA thus far. Getting to the rim was never an issue, but shooting from range was. If he can shoot relatively consistently this year, we will have hit a home run.

[boomershadow]

. GRIII can shoot.

That's a great thing to see, considering that was one of his biggest question marks coming out of Michigan and in the NBA thus far. Getting to the rim was never an issue, but shooting from range was. If he can shoot relatively consistently this year, we will have hit a home run.

Yeah I suppose I should qualify that statement. He shot well tonight. Made a few 3 pointers at really key moments, which doesn't really show up when you just read 3-4 from three in the stat sheet. I haven't seen enough games from him to know what type of shooter he is in general.

[Scoot McGroot]

. GRIII can shoot.

That's a great thing to see, considering that was one of his biggest question marks coming out of Michigan and in the NBA thus far. Getting to the rim was never an issue, but shooting from range was. If he can shoot relatively consistently this year, we will have hit a home run.

Yeah I suppose I should qualify that statement. He shot well tonight. Made a few 3 pointers at really key moments, which doesn't really show up when you just read 3-4 from three in the stat sheet. I haven't seen enough games from him to know what type of shooter he is in general.

Oh, I get what you meant. No worries. We won't have any hard facts from pre-season, but it's just nice to see that a bit of a touch, and timing, is developing for GR3. Clearly, Bird loves him, and he even got the chance to "start" in this game, so we'll see what happens going forward.

[boomershadow]

Vogel on Jordan Hill's performance: "I thought he won the game for us."

He also talked about how Hill didn't join the team with a strong defensive reputation, but came in motivated to learn the system and ready to play hard. Good to hear.

[pacers33granger]

It's hard not to be excited with the young guys we have. Bird's track record is pretty good with them and we have a bunch who have shown some sort of promise. If they work out, we've got 4 super cheap years of Turner, Young, and Christmas and 3 of GRIII.

[Wizop]

If they work out, we've got 4 super cheap years of Turner, Young, and Christmas and 3 of GRIII.

I have a hard time seeing Christmas making the roster although I suppose he could beat out Whittington. sure wish they'd negotiate a change in the D-League rules. the NFL practice squad might be a good model as those guys essentially retain their free agent status as any team can sign them away as long as they put them on the active squad for a few games. better yet would be something more like baseball where a kid can get a big signing bonus and still begin his career in the minors.

[Takingbaconback]

Guys I need some answers on Myles Turner for fantasy basketball. I'm thinking I might take a late flier on him for sneaky high ft% and potentially high blocks (also contemplating Porzingis). Is he a starter yet? Will he be a PF or C? How probable is it that he takes over for Mahinmi at C early in the season?

[pacers33granger]

If they work out, we've got 4 super cheap years of Turner, Young, and Christmas and 3 of GRIII.

I have a hard time seeing Christmas making the roster although I suppose he could beat out Whittington. sure wish they'd negotiate a change in the D-League rules. the NFL practice squad might be a good model as those guys essentially retain their free agent status as any team can sign them away as long as they put them on the active squad for a few games. better yet would be something more like baseball where a kid can get a big signing bonus and still begin his career in the minors.

Yeah right now it seems like Douglas may get the last spot since we really really need a third string PG. I'd almost prefer to keep Christmas over Shayne though because we have him signed for 4 years. I'm sure the better prospect will win the last spot either way though.

[Scoot McGroot]

If they work out, we've got 4 super cheap years of Turner, Young, and Christmas and 3 of GRIII.

I have a hard time seeing Christmas making the roster although I suppose he could beat out Whittington. sure wish they'd negotiate a change in the D-League rules. the NFL practice squad might be a good model as those guys essentially retain their free agent status as any team can sign them away as long as they put them on the active squad for a few games. better yet would be something more like baseball where a kid can get a big signing bonus and still begin his career in the minors.

Yeah right now it seems like Douglas may get the last spot since we really really need a third string PG. I'd almost prefer to keep Christmas over Shayne though because we have him signed for 4 years. I'm sure the better prospect will win the last spot either way though.

Tough to say. Shayne could be cut and stashed in Ft. Wayne easily. Christmas would likely be claimed on waivers by another team immediately.

Douglass got more of a guarantee than originally believed (almost $500k), but I still am not sure I see him making the team, especially with Vogel saying that Young has become the backup 2. To me, that means that Stuckey/Ellis can man the 1 for the few 3rd string minutes we might need, or even a spot start. If Young hadn't played his way into the backup spot, I'd see a better chance for Douglas making the roster.

[pacers33granger]

I have a hard time seeing Christmas making the roster although I suppose he could beat out Whittington. sure wish they'd negotiate a change in the D-League rules. the NFL practice squad might be a good model as those guys essentially retain their free agent status as any team can sign them away as long as they put them on the active squad for a few games. better yet would be something more like baseball where a kid can get a big signing bonus and still begin his career in the minors.

Yeah right now it seems like Douglas may get the last spot since we really really need a third string PG. I'd almost prefer to keep Christmas over Shayne though because we have him signed for 4 years. I'm sure the better prospect will win the last spot either way though.

Tough to say. Shayne could be cut and stashed in Ft. Wayne easily. Christmas would likely be claimed on waivers by another team immediately.

Douglass got more of a guarantee than originally believed (almost $500k), but I still am not sure I see him making the team, especially with Vogel saying that Young has become the backup 2. To me, that means that Stuckey/Ellis can man the 1 for the few 3rd string minutes we might need, or even a spot start. If Young hadn't played his way into the backup spot, I'd see a better chance for Douglas making the roster.

I could see that as well but I'm pretty weary of using either Stuckey or Ellis as a PG really at all. And we just went through a season where our third string PG played 1100 minutes and started 21 games. It's unlikely to happen again anytime soon, but if both Hill/Young happen to miss chunks of the season, we're looking at some sort of guard rotation like:

Ellis/Stuckey
Miles/Hill/GRIII

Keeping Douglas doesn't solve any issues, but at least gives us a third guy whose used to playing PG. And the bulk of whoever gets third string PG minutes will be with the young guys likely so for their development I'd kind of not prefer Stuckey/Ellis. Should usually be Young anyways though.

It's all minor anyways. At this point I think it could be any of Shayne, Christmas, and Douglas for the last 2 spots.

[Scoot McGroot]

Yeah right now it seems like Douglas may get the last spot since we really really need a third string PG. I'd almost prefer to keep Christmas over Shayne though because we have him signed for 4 years. I'm sure the better prospect will win the last spot either way though.

Tough to say. Shayne could be cut and stashed in Ft. Wayne easily. Christmas would likely be claimed on waivers by another team immediately.

Douglass got more of a guarantee than originally believed (almost $500k), but I still am not sure I see him making the team, especially with Vogel saying that Young has become the backup 2. To me, that means that Stuckey/Ellis can man the 1 for the few 3rd string minutes we might need, or even a spot start. If Young hadn't played his way into the backup spot, I'd see a better chance for Douglas making the roster.

I could see that as well but I'm pretty weary of using either Stuckey or Ellis as a PG really at all. And we just went through a season where our third string PG played 1100 minutes and started 21 games. It's unlikely to happen again anytime soon, but if both Hill/Young happen to miss chunks of the season, we're looking at some sort of guard rotation like:

Ellis/Stuckey
Miles/Hill/GRIII

Keeping Douglas doesn't solve any issues, but at least gives us a third guy whose used to playing PG. And the bulk of whoever gets third string PG minutes will be with the young guys likely so for their development I'd kind of not prefer Stuckey/Ellis. Should usually be Young anyways though.

It's all minor anyways. At this point I think it could be any of Shayne, Christmas, and Douglas for the last 2 spots.

Two things. One, Hill was injured over the summer, and we knew going into the season he was going to miss major time. Same for Watson. This summer, both of the PG's were healthy. Two, if we're accepting that Douglas doesn't solve anything, why not just have Stuckey and Ellis play the PG spot? Both of those guys have played extensive PG minutes. According to Basketball-Reference, Monta has played the PG almost 30% of his total minutes played in the NBA, while Stuckey has played almost 40% of his minutes at the PG in the NBA. It's not ideal to what most teams would like to do, but I'd rather have Stuckey/Ellis playing the PG spot than having Toney Douglas in there for major minutes, especially if it would cost me a position for a long-term developmental guy on a dirt cheap deal.

[pacers33granger]

Tough to say. Shayne could be cut and stashed in Ft. Wayne easily. Christmas would likely be claimed on waivers by another team immediately.

Douglass got more of a guarantee than originally believed (almost $500k), but I still am not sure I see him making the team, especially with Vogel saying that Young has become the backup 2. To me, that means that Stuckey/Ellis can man the 1 for the few 3rd string minutes we might need, or even a spot start. If Young hadn't played his way into the backup spot, I'd see a better chance for Douglas making the roster.

I could see that as well but I'm pretty weary of using either Stuckey or Ellis as a PG really at all. And we just went through a season where our third string PG played 1100 minutes and started 21 games. It's unlikely to happen again anytime soon, but if both Hill/Young happen to miss chunks of the season, we're looking at some sort of guard rotation like:

Ellis/Stuckey
Miles/Hill/GRIII

Keeping Douglas doesn't solve any issues, but at least gives us a third guy whose used to playing PG. And the bulk of whoever gets third string PG minutes will be with the young guys likely so for their development I'd kind of not prefer Stuckey/Ellis. Should usually be Young anyways though.

It's all minor anyways. At this point I think it could be any of Shayne, Christmas, and Douglas for the last 2 spots.

Two things. One, Hill was injured over the summer, and we knew going into the season he was going to miss major time. Same for Watson. This summer, both of the PG's were healthy. Two, if we're accepting that Douglas doesn't solve anything, why not just have Stuckey and Ellis play the PG spot? Both of those guys have played extensive PG minutes. According to Basketball-Reference, Monta has played the PG almost 30% of his total minutes played in the NBA, while Stuckey has played almost 40% of his minutes at the PG in the NBA. It's not ideal to what most teams would like to do, but I'd rather have Stuckey/Ellis playing the PG spot than having Toney Douglas in there for major minutes, especially if it would cost me a position for a long-term developmental guy on a dirt cheap deal.

But just because Stuckey and Ellis have logged PG minutes doesn't mean it's a good idea. Former teams tried to make both PGs and it failed miserably with them actually having reps as PGs. And the team will be used to having PGs who can shoot with Hill/Young where Stuckey/Ellis are mediocre on their best days.

Ultimately I'd really prefer a different PG than Douglas anyways, wish we could have nabbed someone like Pressey. But that's who Bird brought in. Which is why I think he may get the last spot, especially where we already have a bunch of bigs to develop. And it's very likely no one picks up Shayne and he just goes to the D League where he'd spend most of the season anyways. So we probably only lose a year of having him on the roster and can resign him next year or during the season if we make room.

[boomershadow]

I could see that as well but I'm pretty weary of using either Stuckey or Ellis as a PG really at all. And we just went through a season where our third string PG played 1100 minutes and started 21 games. It's unlikely to happen again anytime soon, but if both Hill/Young happen to miss chunks of the season, we're looking at some sort of guard rotation like:

Ellis/Stuckey
Miles/Hill/GRIII

Keeping Douglas doesn't solve any issues, but at least gives us a third guy whose used to playing PG. And the bulk of whoever gets third string PG minutes will be with the young guys likely so for their development I'd kind of not prefer Stuckey/Ellis. Should usually be Young anyways though.

It's all minor anyways. At this point I think it could be any of Shayne, Christmas, and Douglas for the last 2 spots.

Two things. One, Hill was injured over the summer, and we knew going into the season he was going to miss major time. Same for Watson. This summer, both of the PG's were healthy. Two, if we're accepting that Douglas doesn't solve anything, why not just have Stuckey and Ellis play the PG spot? Both of those guys have played extensive PG minutes. According to Basketball-Reference, Monta has played the PG almost 30% of his total minutes played in the NBA, while Stuckey has played almost 40% of his minutes at the PG in the NBA. It's not ideal to what most teams would like to do, but I'd rather have Stuckey/Ellis playing the PG spot than having Toney Douglas in there for major minutes, especially if it would cost me a position for a long-term developmental guy on a dirt cheap deal.

But just because Stuckey and Ellis have logged PG minutes doesn't mean it's a good idea. Former teams tried to make both PGs and it failed miserably with them actually having reps as PGs. And the team will be used to having PGs who can shoot with Hill/Young where Stuckey/Ellis are mediocre on their best days.

Ultimately I'd really prefer a different PG than Douglas anyways, wish we could have nabbed someone like Pressey. But that's who Bird brought in. Which is why I think he may get the last spot, especially where we already have a bunch of bigs to develop. And it's very likely no one picks up Shayne and he just goes to the D League where he'd spend most of the season anyways. So we probably only lose a year of having him on the roster and can resign him next year or during the season if we make room.

If I recall correctly (there were so many lineup changes last year with injuries and adjustments and such) we decided last year the SHill/Miles/Stuckey lineup wasnt working at the beginning of the year and switched to Miles/Stuckey/Sloan. Thus, a third string PG getting the spot instead of Stuckey.

But then again, that was expecting Stuckey to do a large amount of creation on offense while being guarded by a lot of smaller, faster guards with a shooter. With a just a shooter and a defender at the wing spots. This year if Stuckey were forced to start some at point guard, it would be with Monta and PG on the floor as well to help relieve much of that burden.