Is Michael Jordan the most athletic 2 guard ever?

NeilsCeltics · Post #1 » by **NeilsCeltics** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:24 pm

Is Michael Jordan the most athletic 2 guard ever and if so, why?

rich316 · Post #2 » by **rich316** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:29 am

Nah. He's in the conversation, but there are so many crazy athletes in the NBA it's hard to put him above the rest. Gerald Wallace comes to mind as a potentially better 2-guard athlete than Jordan - he had a career essentially based on his ridiculous athleticism, stamina, and hustle alone, and he was bigger. He's a 3 in today's game (as is MJ most likely), but I recall him at the 2 for most of his prime.

Zeitgeister · Post #3 » by **Zeitgeister** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:00 am

I say yes. He was strong, extremely fast from baseline to baseline, his quickness was top tier, he had a vertical over 40 inches, he had the body control to finish through contact routinely, he had a ridiculous motor and he had huge hands. There's very little you could change to improve him athletically. Maybe give him a bit of a longer wingspan but that's probably it.

SinceGatlingWasARookie · Post #4 » by **SinceGatlingWasARookie** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:09 am

I say yes. If you cut athleticism into 10 types athleticism Jordan might not be best at any particular sub category but overall he would be best.

I don't think Gerald Wallace was more athletic.
Maybe I am overlooking some undersized off guard who could not shoot but was very athletic.

Shot Clock · Post #5 » by **Shot Clock** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:11 am

Can't think of anyone better.

Gerald Wallace? I wouldn't consider him better and he was never a SG

SinceGatlingWasARookie · Post #6 » by **SinceGatlingWasARookie** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:09 am

I could call young Monta Ellis a 2 guard when he played with Baron Davis.
Size is not athleticism. Refined small muscle skills like shooting touch are not what we usually mean by athleticism.
Basket ball IQ and experience are not athleticism.

Was young Monta Ellis more athletic than Jordan?
I could call Iverson a 2 guard when he is playing with point guard Eric Snow.
Some of the smaller guys might be as athletic as Jordan but I can't think of any 6' 5" to 6' 7" guys as athletic as Jordan.

I have not even seen film of prime ABA Dr J but 29 year old Julious Erving was not as athletic as Jordan. I have seen video of prime but not peak Oscar Robertson and I don't think he was as athletic as Jordan. Peak Wade was very athletic but not as athletic as Jordan. Young Vince Carter, Dominique Wilkins and young pre injury Ron Harper were very impressive but not on Jordan's level.

If any 2 guard is as athletic as Jordan I think it is going to be one of the smaller 2 guards.

Post #7 » by **studcrackers** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:21 am

rich316 wrote:Nah. He's in the conversation, but there are so many crazy athletes in the NBA it's hard to put him above the rest. Gerald Wallace comes to mind as a potentially better 2-guard athlete than Jordan - he had a career essentially based on his ridiculous athleticism, stamina, and hustle alone, and he was bigger. He's a 3 in today's game (as is MJ most likely), but I recall him at the 2 for most of his prime.

nobody's ever considered gerald wallace a 2 guard

pacers33 · Post #8 » by **pacers33** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:14 am

rich316 wrote:Nah. He's in the conversation, but there are so many crazy athletes in the NBA it's hard to put him above the rest. Gerald Wallace comes to mind as a potentially better 2-guard athlete than Jordan - he had a career essentially based on his ridiculous athleticism, stamina, and hustle alone, and he was bigger. He's a 3 in today's game (as is MJ most likely), but I recall him at the 2 for most of his prime.

I could see him playing SG in Sacramento, but...in Charlotte, he was an SF, that we know.

He played alongside Richardson, and after that, Stephen Jackson.

Zeitgeister · Post #9 » by **Zeitgeister** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:30 am

SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:I could call young Monta Ellis a 2 guard when he played with Baron Davis.
Size is not athleticism. Refined small muscle skills like shooting touch are not what we usually mean by athleticism.
Basket ball IQ and experience are not athleticism.

Was young Monta Ellis more athletic than Jordan?
I could call Iverson a 2 guard when he is playing with point guard Eric Snow.
Some of the smaller guys might be as athletic as Jordan but I can't think of any 6' 5" to 6' 7" guys as athletic as Jordan.

I have not even seen film of prime ABA Dr J but 29 year old Julious Erving was not as athletic as Jordan. I have seen video of prime but not peak Oscar Robertson and I don't think he was as athletic as Jordan. Peak Wade was very athletic but not as athletic as Jordan. Young Vince Carter, Dominique Wilkins and young pre injury Ron Harper were very impressive but not on Jordan's level.

If any 2 guard is as athletic as Jordan I think it is going to be one of the smaller 2 guards.

Size is not athleticism, but size absolutely has an impact on how athletic you are. Iverson at 160 lbs is going to move faster and jump higher than a 220 lbs Iverson. I also think things like wingspan, standing reach, strength all fall under the umbrella of athletic tools. They give you a physical advantage over your opponents.

BenoUdrihFTL · Post #10 » by **BenoUdrihFTL** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:20 am

Gerald Green is the most athletic SG I've ever seen. Jordan was stronger, but as far as raw athleticism I'd go with Green.

Post #11 » by **tsherkin** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:46 am

I'd say Jordan was faster than Green.

I am indeed in the camp favoring him as the most athletic SG ever. I would, however, pause and take a moment to mention David Thompson. Jordan was taller, and not addicted to coke, but they didn't call him "Skywalker" because he was ground-bound and slow.

Post #12 » by **tsherkin** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:47 am

Hmm, also I guess you have to stop and think about McGrady, too. And Vince, although I think Vince loses a little here because his lateral quickness wasn't up there with MJ, "only" his first step and leaping.

bledredwine · Post #13 » by **bledredwine** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:00 am

Easily. Show me someone who had his ability to jump or hang, his height, his flexibility, hand-size, speed which is why you'd never see players catch him on a fast break, his strength (horry and Artest talk about how much stronger he was than he looks), and his first step (which is why he could blow by players). That combination has only happened once. Even at age 39 he was fading over guys (Shawn Marion all-star game anyone?)

Runner up though? Id go with Vince, Clyde, Thompson (good mention Tsherk) and prime Wade. But none of them have all of the important attributes.
Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Deus · Post #14 » by **Deus** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:45 pm

Post #15 » by **tsherkin** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:56 pm

Deus wrote:Why is athleticism so important? Plenty of extremely athletic players who were awful in the nba.
Jordan was obviously an elite athlete, but he was also elite at skill level, endurance which is legendary, and sheer will.

Dunno why you're bothering to derail the topic. The OP asked a question; stick to it.

RSCD3_ · Post #16 » by **RSCD3_** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:41 pm

tsherkin wrote:I'd say Jordan was faster than Green.

I am indeed in the camp favoring him as the most athletic SG ever. I would, however, pause and take a moment to mention David Thompson. Jordan was taller, and not addicted to coke, but they didn't call him "Skywalker" because he was ground-bound and slow.

Id also add that Gerald green doesn't look that impressive laterally while Jordan could go side to side very fast

Dr Positivity · Post #17 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:01 pm

Yes, D Wade is probably closest but Jordan has everything he has more or less, and excels in more areas athletically

Zasterror · Post #18 » by **Zasterror** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:57 pm

Without question

Illmatic12 · Post #19 » by **Illmatic12** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:16 am

It's either MJ or young Wade for most athletic SGs ever (Wade's wingspan for a guard is crazy, and he was about as fast as prime Jordan)

Joseph17 · Post #20 » by **Joseph17** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:21 am

I consider Westbrook a 2 guard so I'm going with him.